[RahulNagaraj]

According to a new study, new SUVs are getting wider and larger to the point that they are outgrowing the roads and parking spaces in Europe.

Reports state that the maximum permitted width for all vehicles in the European Union is 255 cm. However, this law was implemented in the mid-90s to limit the size of buses and trucks. Today though, automakers are taking advantage of this by offering SUVs and pickups, clearly too big for European roads. The study also claims that the average width of new cars in the EU has already surpassed 180 cm and is increasing at an annual growth rate of 0.5 cm since 2001.



Europe, unlike the USA, is known to have many narrow roads - with many of them sometimes even having to accommodate on-street parking. These parking spots were designed for vehicles that measure 180 cm in width. This means many of today's new vehicles are either on the limit or do not comfortably fit into these parking spaces.

The study goes on to mention that most large SUVs on sale in Europe today are around 200 cm wide, already making them incompatible with many of the roads in Europe. Hence, the report suggests that lawmakers should review the maximum size of passenger vehicles and LCVs if they want to protect public space from "further encroachment".

Source: Transport&Environment

Link to Team-BHP news

[Livnletcarsliv]

What about houses, buildings, hotels, private gardens, government offices, etc? They occupy more than appropriate/necessary space than a SUV.

How big a house is needed for a family of 4? How big a hotel is needed for 100-200 guests? How big an office is needed for 100 workers (especially government stand alone buildings)?

[shankar.balan]

This is very similar to the situation here in Urban India too. Our roads and streets have always been narrow and ‘hemmed in’’. And most vehicles sold here nowadays are very wide and big, barring a miniscule few.
Taking the example of rural India and the hilly regions, the roads are very narrow but have to accommodate an ever increasing number of bigger and wider vehicles.

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

What about houses, buildings, hotels, private gardens, government offices, etc? They occupy more than appropriate/necessary space than a SUV.

How big a house is needed for a family of 4? How big a hotel is needed for 100-200 guests? How big an office is needed for 100 workers (especially government stand alone buildings)?

I'll try to answer.
Houses, buildings, hotels, private gardens, government offices etc. have a key difference with cars.
They don't have wheels and *generally* don't move around.

* I use generally because a flood could move a house around.

What I'm trying to say is, in Europe where the vast majority of cities are old (except for those rebuilt after WW2 or those who did not undergo change of character due to use of brutalist architecture) the houses, parks, buildings, etc. are ALREADY there. Sometimes for centuries. And so are many roads. So traffic has to fit the cities, and not the other way round. Unless a flood razes a city and we can rebuild as we please.

/s

Back on topic, this is a very serious problem. Pedestrian and cycling space both are being squeezed out by mega SUVs and pickups which are ridiculously impractical in almost all Western and Central European cities.

These cities have more often than not (I'm looking at you, Prague) excellent public transportation and walking spaces, and should not become Americanized suburban hellscapes with huge cars, highways and turnpikes.

Its a pedestrian safety issue as well, because large SUVs are proven to be more risky and cause fatal accidents compared to smaller cars.

I'm not one for regulations and legislations for the sake of it, but the problem is now big enough for the babus in Brussels to do something about.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by digitalnirvana

I'll try to answer.
Houses, buildings, hotels, private gardens, government offices etc. have a key difference with cars.
They don't have wheels and *generally* don't move around.

* I use generally because a flood could move a house around.

What I'm trying to say is, in Europe where the vast majority of cities are old (except for those rebuilt after WW2 or those who did not undergo change of character due to use of brutalist architecture) the houses, parks, buildings, etc. are ALREADY there. Sometimes for centuries. And so are many roads. So traffic has to fit the cities, and not the other way round. Unless a flood razes a city and we can rebuild as we please.

/s

Back on topic, this is a very serious problem. Pedestrian and cycling space both are being squeezed out by mega SUVs and pickups which are ridiculously impractical in almost all Western and Central European cities.

These cities have more often than not (I'm looking at you, Prague) excellent public transportation and walking spaces, and should not become Americanized suburban hellscapes with huge cars, highways and turnpikes.

Its a pedestrian safety issue as well, because large SUVs are proven to be more risky and cause fatal accidents compared to smaller cars.

I'm not one for regulations and legislations for the sake of it, but the problem is now big enough for the babus in Brussels to do something about.

I have different perception here. Here when I say parks - I am not talking about public parks. I am only talking about private parks, gardens, etc. Yes the cities in Europe are old, but that is definitely not a justification to say that a 3000 sqft house is what is needed for a family of 4 and no space to park a car inside the compound/perimeter of the house. In the UK, in residential areas, most of the cars will be parked on the road. What is the need to park the car on the road in residential areas? Why can't government enforce mandatory car parking for any house. And if it is a commercial building, do we they enough parking for all the occupants of the building?

Generally Europe is claimed to be having the best public transport system in the world. But still people use a lot of cars (individual transport). Not all are enthusiasts in every country in Europe. This means there is something seriously wrong.

So I definitely don't believe that just by decreasing the size of the car by a few mm will solve/address the actual concern of pedestrians safety, etc. There is a larger pic that need to be taken cognisant of.

[neon_daytona]

Recently had issues with tight parking spaces in Spain for the rental car. The car was Opel grandland. 1856mm wide and 2100mm with the mirrors open. The steering also was heavy at slow speeds. At one basement parking when we had to take the car out, the car on left (driver side) was too close to open the door. The front passenger door could not be opened due to a pillar. The rear right passenger door is what we had to use to get in and get to the driver seat, breaking a pair of goggles attempting this.

[am1m]

There is a very good reason this will never be a convincing argument. And by that I don't mean it's not a valid point - someone driving a bigger vehicle certainly uses up more space, whether it's on the road, for parking, etc. And it's pretty stupid to take something big down a narrow road and not expect it to cause a roadblock. But this argument will never convince people.

As we go 'higher' up the 'value-chain', we become less conscious of the resources we consume per capita. It happens to all of us. When I ride my bike, I curse the cars, when I'm in my car, I curse the bikers and SUVs, if I buy an SUV, I'm sure I'll curse everyone else. So you'll get arguments like "what about the space the Taj Mahal occupies?!" And the usual "we pay more road tax, so we can use more of the road, right?!"

I think, being a democracy, the only fair way to look at things is per capita. A bus should have right of way, because it carries more people, 4 bikes parking in one spot is more efficient than a single passenger car, and so on. (Just an opinion. I rarely take the bus!)

(And there should be dedicated walkways and lanes leading to and from all Metro stations, even at the expense of other road users, because the trains move an incredible number of people!)

[V.Narayan]

Our cars have got bigger, heavier and more powerful not because we need that size or power to move four backsides of 70 kgs each but because our egos need fulfilment. And I stand guilty as charged on this one. Instead of a car being an asset to transport us safely it has become a status symbol cum entertainment device cum communication link cum whatever else.

The roads especially old ones in the city cannot be widened for a hundred good reasons. Countries like India should consider limits on car length and width and bhp. Enthusiasts will cry blue murder but this is what is practical for India if ever we have a comprehensive automotive & road transport policy.

I'm glad the Europeans are taking the lead on this.

In the eyes of the bottom 90% of our population we car owners are the real road hogs.

[NomadSK]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Our cars have got bigger, heavier and more powerful not because we need that size or power to move four backsides of 70 kgs each but because our egos need fulfilment. And I stand guilty as charged on this one. Instead of a car being an asset to transport us safely it has become a status symbol cum entertainment device cum communication link cum whatever else.

Thanks Sir for Saying this and it's always fascinating to pick your brains.

Recently I was having a discussion with my Dad for a new car, which would have been from my side, So I had shortlisted the top model AT Sonet (Petrol), Matt black colour, which I liked, and he also agreed to the same model at that time.

Eventually he goes to the showroom and likes the bigger base model of Seltos (Not AT) for some extra peanuts and now he's trying to convince me to buy a "Bigger" car rather than Sonet with all Bells and Whistles which he says, he wont use and would happily pay the difference

So it took me sometime to make him understand, that with his progressing age, Small AT is the right car for him.

[DicKy]

Looking at the website, guess they won't be satisfied even if cars get smaller, so leave it at that.

Cars are getting larger partly due to safety reasons. There are of course other reasons like comfort, style or status. But by and large, it is safety that is the primary reason for cars bloating up. Even if the present interior space is to be maintained (not increased) and safety regulations met, it will end up bloating the body. Then again, ever increasing emission and fuel economy norms means car bodies have to be streamlined and be aerodynamic for that extra 0.xx km/l, atleast in test cycles. So upright windshields and other space maximising body designs are avoided.

All in all, it is not just SUVs or evil pickup- trucks. Even normal cars or even cars like efficiency minded Prius has grown in size. I believe, the Polo would be a good point in normal commuter car size for Europe. Not something people buy to show off or impress or intimidate other road users or hog precious public space.



Also Honda with its man maximum/ machine minimum philosophy would be the last to increase car size for the sake of it.



Images taken from carsized

So it is not just SUVs or pickup trucks taking over European streets, even regular cars are getting bloated up since the 2000s. This article maybe more to do with the increasing SUV sales and Europeans taking fancy to imported American trucks/SUVs since the mid 2010s.

[vb-saan]

There could be some merit in this study. Their infrastructure (especially in smaller cities and villages) are quite old, and will need a proper overhaul to accommodate the ever-growing car sizes. Last year (around Lake Como Italy), I found roads that were custom built for Fiat 500 sized cars, and the Q3 I rented felt like a big car on the Italian roads. My friend went a step ahead and rented a BMW iX40 for his family's road trip in Italy, and totally struggled to navigate and park.

I recently was in contact with an Airbnb host for a possible holiday stay option in Europe, and she messaged me saying that if I am renting a car, make sure to get something which is less than 4000mm long, and below 2000mm in width. She said the parking box she can book is of decent size, but the ramp and approach can be extremely tricky (pictures below):

[DicKy]

Offtopic.

Originally Posted by vb-saan

but the ramp and approach can be extremely tricky (pictures below):

Reminds me of old YouTube videos showing underground garages in Europe.

This one in Paris has decent parking but the ramp is just.

https://youtu.be/LQKCEiNy44A?si=iSlbURh2mxZjrAIs

And this one is okay per se, but the pillars look like a real bother. Atleast no door dings I guess.

https://youtu.be/YxudA3yqUz4?si=E2rJ_60JKW9ySaf7

We do have terribly designed underground parking garages in India, but most are tiny to be of any significance, while the the above ones are pretty large yet weird.

[Simha.k]

On my recent visit to a local swimming pool here, I spotted an F350 in the open parking lot. The guy who purchased it must be a top class idiot to drive such monstrosity on European roads.

I wish I had taken a picture to show you all how it pretty much overshadowed a VW Golf parked next to it. It was protruding beyond the length and width of a standard parking spot.

I wish I got a chance to ask the owner what was he smoking when he purchased that truck in Europe. Seriously.

[Kosfactor]

What is Europe anyway, is it a country?!

So what about people who live in a joint family or have more than 2 kids? We need bigger vehicles to transport them. What if I have a driver , I still need 5 or 6 seats after the driver's seat is taken. This does not mean I purchase a Traveler with 13 seats but an 8 seater or 7 seater UV is fair game.

Usually when the number of houses increase , we increase the quantity of utilities like roads, water supply, electricity supply etc. But when it comes to cars it is the opposite, everything becomes the car's fault and that bicycle is the answer.

But for the most part I see this as a rant - the ageing population in 'Europe' who has enjoyed all the luxuries in their prime time now wants to limit the next generation from having the same things when it's time for them to afford it.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

So what about people who live in a joint family or have more than 2 kids? We need bigger vehicles to transport them. - the ageing population in 'Europe' who has enjoyed all the luxuries in their prime time now wants to limit the next generation from having the same things when it's time for them to afford it.

In another thread on water scarcity it is being discussed as to how plots in cities like Bangalore which were originally meant for individual houses are all now being converted into 5-6 storey apartments.
This puts strain on water, parking space and overall space for everyone.

In ref to the point about the ‘ageing’ population, I draw a parallel with those who voted for Brexit. The overwhelming majority of those who voted for it were all well past their prime. And those who are most affected by it, are those who were very young at the time but who would live to see the effects of it by the time they reached their prime.
The generation which was past its prime made a poor decision which will affect the generations yet to come. And it was (in my considered opinion) not sensible to do that because there is definitely greater synergy and strength in togetherness. Indeed, while that brouhaha was going on, (around 2017-2018), I met an English couple in their 70’s while I was travelling in the Antipodes and in casual conversation with them, I learned that they had voted for Brexit but were subsequently overcome by regret.