[deetjohn]

I want Alonso to win it. Voted for him.

But there are no two ways about it. Alonso needs to win at least one or both the remaining races. If Alonso wins at Austin, then its game on. But at the moment, it is looking increasingly difficult. Unless Bernie got other ideas.

But Vettel is clearly in the driving seat. He has clearly got one firm hand on the championship already.

[sa_kiran]

Originally Posted by vikram_d

Heart says Alonso, but the mind says Vettel. I want Alonso to win. He deserves it this year for having the number of points he has with not so good a car. His persistence, perseverance and consistency this year needs to pay off.

My take is same as this. Alonso's win will reinforce driver element in WDC to a large extent, much more than Vettel's win. Who knows, if Alonso had such a dominating car, he would have won the WDC by Japan GP!

[the VTEC guy]

Note from Mod: There are several spelling & grammatical errors in your posts. This negatively affects the board experience for other readers.

Kindly ensure that you proof-read your posts prior to submission. Also, it would be a good idea to use spell-checkers.

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by go-pg

I respectfully disagree on the first point. Webber was having a measure of Vettel in the first half. What Vettel has done is that he has capitalised on the fastest car (which i dont blame him for). Between Singapore and AbuDhabi, Vettel has scored 115 points out of the 125 points available!.

I don't see what Webber having his measure in first half has got to do with this.

Yes, Vettel has fully capitalised on the fastest car (Webber hasn't), but the other 140 points that Vettel has did not come from thin air - that's all I'm saying.

He was close enough in points with Alonso to capitalise when his car came good and lead the championship (with a little help from Hamilton retiring from the lead twice and Alonso's DNF in Japan).

Agree with the rest of your post.

Originally Posted by sa_kiran

My take is same as this. Alonso's win will reinforce driver element in WDC to a large extent, much more than Vettel's win. Who knows, if Alonso had such a dominating car, he would have won the WDC by Japan GP!

A perfect example of what I was referring to in my earlier post. Just because Vettel has had a fast car in the last 3-4 races, people think he's been driving the best car since Australia.

[asr245]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

He was close enough in points with Alonso to capitalise when his car came good and lead the championship (with a little help from Hamilton retiring from the lead twice and Alonso's DNF in Japan).

Agree with the rest of your post.



A perfect example of what I was referring to in my earlier post. Just because Vettel has had a fast car in the last 3-4 races, people think he's been driving the best car since Australia.

I think the point is Alonso has almost never had the fastest car this year. But he got the most wins/points whenever there was a chance of car advantage being nullified be it due to rain or misfortune for others. Sure Vettel was close, but he only got into the WDC picture by having the fastest car underneath him (which Webber still couldn't do).

[go-pg]

Originally Posted by asr245

I think the point is Alonso has almost never had the fastest car this year. But he got the most wins/points whenever there was a chance of car advantage being nullified be it due to rain or misfortune for others. Sure Vettel was close, but he only got into the WDC picture by having the fastest car underneath him (which Webber still couldn't do).

This. RBR was fast than the Ferrari even in the first half. Now it is "Faster". For every improvement Ferrari made, RBR seemed to have doubled.

The reason why i brought Webber having a measure of Vettel is, if he had capitalised during the first half of the season when still the RBR was fast than the Ferrari, the season would have been over by now.

[Monolithic]

I have a question. What happens if both Alonso and Vettel end up with same points after Brazil GP? Who will be the champion then?

[StarrySky]

If putting the car on pole is the mark of the fastest car, then Alonso also has done it twice this year (in consecutive races) - winning once. So it is doubtful if he never had the fastest car.

But of course, when Alonso does it, it's all down to the driver and with Vettel, it's all Newey!

I also think it's easy to criticise Vettel for "not capitalising" on the first half of the season, but do not forget that until Singapore he had 3 non-points scoring races (+1 post race penalty) compared to Alonso's 1.

[go-pg]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

If putting the car on pole is the mark of the fastest car, then Alonso also has done it twice this year (in consecutive races) - winning once. So it is doubtful if he never had the fastest car.

But of course, when Alonso does it, it's all down to the driver and with Vettel, it's all Newey!

I also think it's easy to criticise Vettel for "not capitalising" on the first half of the season, but do not forget that until Singapore he had 3 non-points scoring races (+1 post race penalty) compared to Alonso's 1.

Both the qualifying were WET sessions. All it says is that the Ferrari's work better than the Redbull in wet conditions. And reliability is part of the sport. The penalty is Vettel's undoing.

Oh, by the way, early forecast for Austin is rain

And no, its not all Newey. Vettel still has to deliver and he has. Vettel may be WDC this year, but Fernando proved he is a Champion driver all year long. Let's get back to topic.

[vikram_d]

Originally Posted by Monolithic

I have a question. What happens if both Alonso and Vettel end up with same points after Brazil GP? Who will be the champion then?

In such a case the driver with most number of wins in the season becomes the champion.

[asr245]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

If putting the car on pole is the mark of the fastest car, then Alonso also has done it twice this year (in consecutive races) - winning once. So it is doubtful if he never had the fastest car.

I looked up wiki for those races. Apparently both time Alonso got pole this year, it was a wet qualifying session. In both those races, Fernando had to defend for lead, once against Webber (where he lost) and once against Button (where he had success). I doubt we can call it the fastest car. Also, Mclaren had 7 poles this year (8 if ignore LH disqualification), RBR 6 (7 after MS penalty at Monaco) and Ferrari 2 (both in wet).

[divyanshdaga19]

I feel Vettel will win the drivers championship but Alonso deserves it because race after race he has proved his metal by starting from the 3rd or the 4th grid and fighting his way into the podium on the other hand Vettel has just been running away from the start except the Abu Dhabi grand prix where he showed character and resilience to finish 3rd but Alonso at the fag end of the season is still a stone's throw away from Vettel even after having the 3rd or sometimes even the 4th best car on the circuit proves how deserving he is to be crowned the 2012 world champion.

[sa_kiran]

Originally Posted by divyanshdaga19

I feel Vettel will win the drivers championship but Alonso deserves it because race after race he has proved his metal by starting from the 3rd or the 4th grid and fighting his way into the podium on the other hand Vettel has just been running away from the start except the Abu Dhabi grand prix where he showed character and resilience to finish 3rd but Alonso at the fag end of the season is still a stone's throw away from Vettel even after having the 3rd or sometimes even the 4th best car on the circuit proves how deserving he is to be crowned the 2012 world champion.

Abu Dhabi race is not a good example for comparing Vettel and other drivers. While Vettel had the luxury of changing the car setup, all the others had to drive with the setup used for qualifying. It is very well known that Vettel's car was setup differently after qualifying disqualification; started from pit and could exploit safety car periods. All these factors contributed to his podium, not just gritty driving.

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by go-pg

Both the qualifying were WET sessions. All it says is that the Ferrari's work better than the Redbull in wet conditions

..and the other cars as well. And that is not a car advantage because?

Also, I think Vettel has had a truly dominant car in Japan/Korea/India. He was gifted victory in Singapore and in Abu Dhabi also McLaren/Hamilton were dominant.

Originally Posted by go-pg

And reliability is part of the sport.

Did not say it isn't. Just wanted to highlight that it's not all down to Vettel's driving why he was behind Alonso before Singapore.

Originally Posted by go-pg

And no, its not all Newey. Vettel still has to deliver and he has. Vettel may be WDC this year, but Fernando proved he is a Champion driver all year long.

Of course Alonso is a champion driver, no question about it. Just wanted to highlight that Vettel has also been very good this year, and not only when he had a dominant car. And hence IMHO, Vettel winning the WDC is not going to be a travesty of justice .

Originally Posted by go-pg

Let's get back to topic.

For once, I think all this discussion is on topic.

[go-pg]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

..and the other cars as well. And that is not a car advantage because?

Also, I think Vettel has had a truly dominant car in Japan/Korea/India. He was gifted victory in Singapore and in Abu Dhabi also McLaren/Hamilton were dominant.

Did not say it isn't. Just wanted to highlight that it's not all down to Vettel's driving why he was behind Alonso before Singapore.

Of course Alonso is a champion driver, no question about it. Just wanted to highlight that Vettel has also been very good this year, and not only when he had a dominant car. And hence IMHO, Vettel winning the WDC is not going to be a travesty of justice .

For once, I think all this discussion is on topic.

I respect your opinion. To me Vettel has been very good after the summer break when RBR got the second upgrade. Dominant after Singapore. His first half were nothing special. Let's get back on topic. Whoever wins WDC creates history and deserves it.

Austin would be a lot cooler. I wonder how it would affect the Ferrari's. Alonso had tough times at the restart keeping temperature in the tires. Ferrari needs to sort this out.