Jacques slams Michael!

Hatari · 22nd August 2006, 10:10

now this is getting a bit much !
cry baby jacques !

he cant carry his michael bashing on 24x7..
once in a while i enjoy it and agree with him..

he's really upset at not getting a drive for next yr..
then he says something ridiculous like nascar is not a step down from F1 !

naveendhyani · 22nd August 2006, 12:13

certainly MS is not the greatest but surely will b remembered for the records he is still creating. also i believe there is a very fine line between cheating & calculated risk. in F1 u push everythings to the limit cause the usual is available to everybody, so how do u become better than the rest, u exploit the loop holes (remember the flexi wing) & this is what has made MS as a multiple champion.

champions in the past were known for their guts & free speech but with time the sport has gone into a more corporate structure so its more about selective talking & strategy playing.

past champions only played for the win & not the rest of the points which will give them "valuable" points at the end of the session to beat the rival.

brainscooper · 22nd August 2006, 12:20

Well, it seems to me that Villeneuve was splitting hairs. Senna crashing into Prost was OK because he said he was going to do it, but Schumacher doing it was not OK, because he claimed that he never intended to do it (what if he was speaking the truth?) As a fan of both Senna and Schumacher, I have to say that people are unlikely to forget a man who holds practically all the records for F1 racing!

Jay · 22nd August 2006, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

I doubt anyone will ever break his records.

Records are meant to be broken... and his too will be broken...

Quote:

Originally Posted by prince85

What is a perfectly good driver without a team that can provide him a good enough car to win races????

A driver winning races in a perfect car does'nt actually mean he's a perfect driver my friend...

madhav · 22nd August 2006, 17:32

I read JV's comment on Schumi... he never mentioned that Schumi is a bad driver. His whole point was that he is not a good sport and the comparison to other drivers was in this context.
Schumi's record could be a hard to break... but the way he is going to be remembered is not going to be like that others JV mentioned. Somewhere I see JV's point.
It is sad to see him go, but I guess he should move on, thats the smartest thing to do... Mika's exit was the best and all World Champs should do the same if they realize it.

Floyd de Souza · 22nd August 2006, 17:35

Friends....just stirring a hornets nest here. I agree partly with what JV says regarding "remembering" great drivers. IMO MS will never be able to emulate the cult status that Senna achieved. Senna was a flawed genius who always drove out of his skin no matter what car he drove. His aim would be to go for pole even with the worst car in the field. He would even go to the extent of putting another drivers life in jeopardy to make sure he won. Those that have seen Senna race will never be in doubt that he was the gratest "racer" there ever was. He was probably the most unpopular driver in the paddock yet the most revered by the other drivers. MS on the other hand is not the most unpopular but is nowhere as revered by the other drivers as Senna was in his time. MS will surely be remembered for his records but never as the best driver there ever was. That honour undoubtedly goes to Senna.

suman · 22nd August 2006, 18:07

with Floyd....I think Senna enjoyed respect from the other drivers, with Michael I'm not sure others "respect" him

condor · 22nd August 2006, 20:34

Senna, arguably the best ever driver in F1.

merve_extreme · 22nd August 2006, 23:10

Senna was as big a cheat as Michael is.there is no such thing in this world as a good dirty tricks as Villenue wants us to believe.a dirty trick is a dirty trick no matter who as done it.

there will be never such thing as the greatest driver ever.its every driver for his era and this era belongs to Michael.

What is most pathetic is to see people try to latch onto some stupid comments made by a man who has fallen from a hill into the ditch to show their hate towards Michael.If you hate someone how may times do you have to say it?and yes people have huge double standards,don't you guys think what Alonso did in Hungary was dirty even if it was not cheating?if you dont then what can i say.

ranjan united · 22nd August 2006, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

Senna was as big a cheat as Michael is.

Prove It. (if u can)

merve_extreme · 22nd August 2006, 23:33

why should i prove it.everyone knows that senna rammed into Prost.what was that.

ranjan united · 22nd August 2006, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

why should i prove it.everyone knows that senna rammed into Prost.what was that.

So, loads of drivers ram into each other. Montoya rammed into Kimi. Sato rammed into Buton. and even if Senna did it intentionally, thats 1 strike for him. still a lot lot less than Michaels oh-not-so clean record. cant see him as a cheat, atlast not at Michaels level.

merve_extreme · 22nd August 2006, 23:41

ok so prove to me when michael has cheated when he has not ramed anyone with the exception of rascase this year(i still dont think he did it on purpose)

and loads of drivers dont ram into each other on purpose.JPM didnt hit kimi on purpose and yes senna did it intentionally,even JV claims that.

sinhsha · 23rd August 2006, 02:26

Hello all
After so many days of sweet browsing in this forum first time I am sensing the same old indian attitude here. I agree fully with merve extreme on his point.
See folks I know here are real car lovers, real petrol heads. And true blue machine afficionadoes.
But regarding F1 it's not only cars. It's mostly a game of decision making and engineering exellency on limited scope.
Now my point is I am following F1 for last decade (actually 12 years) without missing a single weekend. I watch and follow only one game.
I also worked for a F1 project for tag heuer even for less salary than my other options.
And in my opinion Michael Schumacher is the best driver considering the million things involved in the F1 of today. Only clean heroism cann't get results.
Now who is this JV.
He may have a point but he is just foolish to comment that people will forget schumi.
It has been shown in bright red in every weekend that more than half of the F1 crowd are red tiffosis and if schumi wouldn't charismatise the game in hakkinnen schumi era by this time F1 would have been eclipsed to a regional sports of europe.

Sorry for being not so polite.

Steeroid · 23rd August 2006, 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by suman

I think Senna enjoyed respect from the other drivers, with Michael I'm not sure others "respect" him

People tend to eulogise a person and add wings to him after death. Posthumous accolades should be compared only after Michael's time.

People also tend to romanticize Senna because of his flambouyant personality and his spectacular death. Michael does not have that magnetic personality and I dont think he particularly wants a similarly spectacular exit.

In his days, Senna was as much a bad boy as any other driver. People tend to forget these things and remember only the good parts after he died.

As for Jacques - who is he to talk about Michael ? The late Gilles had much better control over both his tongue and his car, and he is the reason Jacques was able to sniff around F1. He's been tolerated for too long - let us not attach too much importance to what the likes of him, Eddie Irvine and Damon Hill say.

If it werent for Schumacher, many of us wouldnt be watching F1 today. I mean both the fans that swear by him and those that watch F1 to swear AT him.

I think we are fortunate to be around to watch one of the greatest drivers in action. I say one of the because it does not make sense to compare across eras - the cars, the rules, the tracks, the engines and the tyres were different.

Let us therefore be thankful that we have the opportunity to take sides for and against him. Ignore the inconsequential mosquitos like Jacques.

22nd August 2006, 10:10	#31
Hatari Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Calcutta Posts: 1,872 Thanked: 874 Times	now this is getting a bit much ! cry baby jacques ! he cant carry his michael bashing on 24x7.. once in a while i enjoy it and agree with him.. he's really upset at not getting a drive for next yr.. then he says something ridiculous like nascar is not a step down from F1 !
	() Thanks

22nd August 2006, 12:13	#32
naveendhyani BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Melbourne Posts: 542 Thanked: 9 Times	certainly MS is not the greatest but surely will b remembered for the records he is still creating. also i believe there is a very fine line between cheating & calculated risk. in F1 u push everythings to the limit cause the usual is available to everybody, so how do u become better than the rest, u exploit the loop holes (remember the flexi wing) & this is what has made MS as a multiple champion. champions in the past were known for their guts & free speech but with time the sport has gone into a more corporate structure so its more about selective talking & strategy playing. past champions only played for the win & not the rest of the points which will give them "valuable" points at the end of the session to beat the rival.
	() Thanks

22nd August 2006, 12:20	#33
brainscooper BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Calicut Posts: 34 Thanked: 4 Times	Well, it seems to me that Villeneuve was splitting hairs. Senna crashing into Prost was OK because he said he was going to do it, but Schumacher doing it was not OK, because he claimed that he never intended to do it (what if he was speaking the truth?) As a fan of both Senna and Schumacher, I have to say that people are unlikely to forget a man who holds practically all the records for F1 racing!
	() Thanks

22nd August 2006, 17:32	#35
madhav BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 286 Thanked: 73 Times	I read JV's comment on Schumi... he never mentioned that Schumi is a bad driver. His whole point was that he is not a good sport and the comparison to other drivers was in this context. Schumi's record could be a hard to break... but the way he is going to be remembered is not going to be like that others JV mentioned. Somewhere I see JV's point. It is sad to see him go, but I guess he should move on, thats the smartest thing to do... Mika's exit was the best and all World Champs should do the same if they realize it.
	() Thanks

22nd August 2006, 17:35	#36
Floyd de Souza BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 320 Thanked: 225 Times	Friends....just stirring a hornets nest here. I agree partly with what JV says regarding "remembering" great drivers. IMO MS will never be able to emulate the cult status that Senna achieved. Senna was a flawed genius who always drove out of his skin no matter what car he drove. His aim would be to go for pole even with the worst car in the field. He would even go to the extent of putting another drivers life in jeopardy to make sure he won. Those that have seen Senna race will never be in doubt that he was the gratest "racer" there ever was. He was probably the most unpopular driver in the paddock yet the most revered by the other drivers. MS on the other hand is not the most unpopular but is nowhere as revered by the other drivers as Senna was in his time. MS will surely be remembered for his records but never as the best driver there ever was. That honour undoubtedly goes to Senna.
	() Thanks

22nd August 2006, 18:07	#37
suman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kolkata Posts: 4,589 Thanked: 279 Times View My Garage	with Floyd....I think Senna enjoyed respect from the other drivers, with Michael I'm not sure others "respect" him
	() Thanks

22nd August 2006, 20:34	#38
condor Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Speed-brkr City Posts: 15,864 Thanked: 16,014 Times View My Garage	Senna, arguably the best ever driver in F1.
	() Thanks

22nd August 2006, 23:10	#39
merve_extreme Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,359 Thanked: 18 Times View My Garage	Senna was as big a cheat as Michael is.there is no such thing in this world as a good dirty tricks as Villenue wants us to believe.a dirty trick is a dirty trick no matter who as done it. there will be never such thing as the greatest driver ever.its every driver for his era and this era belongs to Michael. What is most pathetic is to see people try to latch onto some stupid comments made by a man who has fallen from a hill into the ditch to show their hate towards Michael.If you hate someone how may times do you have to say it?and yes people have huge double standards,don't you guys think what Alonso did in Hungary was dirty even if it was not cheating?if you dont then what can i say.
	() Thanks

22nd August 2006, 23:33	#41
merve_extreme Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,359 Thanked: 18 Times View My Garage	why should i prove it.everyone knows that senna rammed into Prost.what was that.
	() Thanks

22nd August 2006, 23:41	#43
merve_extreme Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,359 Thanked: 18 Times View My Garage	ok so prove to me when michael has cheated when he has not ramed anyone with the exception of rascase this year(i still dont think he did it on purpose) and loads of drivers dont ram into each other on purpose.JPM didnt hit kimi on purpose and yes senna did it intentionally,even JV claims that. Last edited by merve_extreme : 22nd August 2006 at 23:42.
	() Thanks

23rd August 2006, 02:26	#44
sinhsha BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kolkata Posts: 170 Thanked: 79 Times View My Garage	Hello all After so many days of sweet browsing in this forum first time I am sensing the same old indian attitude here. I agree fully with merve extreme on his point. See folks I know here are real car lovers, real petrol heads. And true blue machine afficionadoes. But regarding F1 it's not only cars. It's mostly a game of decision making and engineering exellency on limited scope. Now my point is I am following F1 for last decade (actually 12 years) without missing a single weekend. I watch and follow only one game. I also worked for a F1 project for tag heuer even for less salary than my other options. And in my opinion Michael Schumacher is the best driver considering the million things involved in the F1 of today. Only clean heroism cann't get results. Now who is this JV. He may have a point but he is just foolish to comment that people will forget schumi. It has been shown in bright red in every weekend that more than half of the F1 crowd are red tiffosis and if schumi wouldn't charismatise the game in hakkinnen schumi era by this time F1 would have been eclipsed to a regional sports of europe. Sorry for being not so polite.
	() Thanks