[Fullrevs]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I agree with Vid6639: It was a racing incident. Let us leave it at that. Otherwise I am sure Vettel would have won the race.

I do not find this circuit at all exciting.

I totally agree with Vid and you sir.

Vettel seemed to be totally boxed in. He could have gone past both Mercedes with that phenomenal start. He seemed to have taken evasive action by braking early and actually allowing Bottas to go past, it was Bottas who wanted to ensure he got his karting lessons right and go from kerb to kerb. He too could have taken a bit more care in going a bit wide leaving Vettel some room.

I am noticing a lot more complaining and whining from Hamilton. What happened to the brave boy? Anyone hear him in the car say that should have been a 5 place grid drop for Vettel in the next GP? I quite remember how Vettel stood up for Hamilton after he called Max Verstappen a "....head".

At the same time, it is great to see Vettel acting mature and calm.

The track was dull and boring. Until recently, Bernie Ecclestone owned this track. I am not sure if he sold it after he was caught with the bribe scandal. Could this be part of the severance package for being ousted from the top seat of F1?

I remember Magny Cours was removed due to its dull and obsolete location. Everyone complained of how getting to Paul Ricard was difficult with traffic and other issues.

[myavu]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Otherwise I am sure Vettel would have won the race.

How can you sure that Vettel would have won the race. Average speed of Merc was .001 faster than Ferraris'. Hamilton was controlling his pace. If Vettel didn't had knocked Bottas, he would have stuck behind or maximum jumped to P2.

I too agree that it was a racing incident. But watching closely, even if the room for braking was little, there was ample space to the left for him to avoid that contact. Vettel's over aggressiveness had already cost him more points this year than previous (Baku and now France). If he genuinely thought he had a fast car than Merc then he could have tried it later in the race.

Originally Posted by Fullrevs

Vettel seemed to be totally boxed in. He could have gone past both Mercedes with that phenomenal start.

It's like saying after launching a rocket under 3 feet thick concrete roof "If the roof was not there, the rocket would have propelled to the outer space".

Vettel himself had accepted his mistake but people start blaming Bottas now. There was enough space in the left for Vettel to go past or to avoid contact. Launching a car is one thing but to control it before hitting someone is something else.

"In the end, there wasn't that much that I could have done different," Vettel told Sky Sports.

"Just a bit the wrong place [at the wrong time]. For Valtteri it was very bad because it affected his race and he had nothing to do with it, so I went to him after the race.”

Cheers!

[Fullrevs]

Originally Posted by myavu

It's like saying after launching a rocket under 3 feet thick concrete roof "If the roof was not there, the rocket would have propelled to the outer space".


Vettel himself had accepted his mistake but people start blaming Bottas now. There was enough space in the left for Vettel to go past or to avoid contact. Launching a car is one thing but to control it before hitting someone is something else.

Cheers!

I totally disagree that there was ample space for Vettel to go past. At which moment did you feel there was space on the left? Yeah there was space if he sat on this rocket you mentioned and he tried to go over Hamilton.

His contact with Bottas happened under braking. Not after launching the car. He did brake much earlier because he didn't want to collide. One could argue he was ahead and had the inside line too until he braked hard for the corner. As far as him being ahead, its clear from on-board footage that he slowed down twice. Once for being up Hamiltons diffuser in a fraction of a second (ultra soft tyres definitely helped his amazing start) and the second time to try and evade the first corner moment with Bottas.

Nobody's blaming Bottas, but he himself could have done something to avoid the collision. As far as some of us are concerned Vettel did what was possible to avoid "causing a collision" which is why some of us are calling it a 'Racing incident'. The term of the penalty doesn't fit the situation that took place which was "a 5 second penalty to car no:5 for CAUSING A COLLISION".

Also please read what Vettel said about this moment. He clearly states that he had no room to do anything more than he did.

[avdhesh15]

Really boring race and uninspiring track. Only thing is back to back weekends!

Originally Posted by GTO

Good news = this coming Sunday & the next have races. Three weekends back to back .

I am wondering if this is the first time ever F1 has 3 consecutive weekends?

[myavu]

Originally Posted by Fullrevs

Also please read what Vettel said about this moment. He clearly states that he had no room to do anything more than he did.

That's what I am trying to say. He created that situation. If he was not that aggressive with the start he could have done it cleanly in the next corner or even later.

So you are saying that he braked hard and collided into Bottas due to no room for stopping on time. And that is called poor judgement. Vettel screwed it and lost precious points to LH. On the process he destroyed VB's chances too.

As per you Bottas should have open up more room and let Vettel through to avoid a contact, right. Dear Friend, he is racing for positions.

And there was enough room to the left. I hope you had watched the race live. Else here is the screen grab. Only thing Vettel had to do was to turn his steering left post initial braking.

[Hatari]

Eventful race, thanks to Vettel! When he says he had nowhere to go, I wonder what the brake pedal is for! Feel sorry for Bottas.

Max summed it up perfectly in the post race interview saying the media should now get on Vettel's case telling him to change his driving style!

Was hoping for more pace from Ferrari this weekend. Shame Kimi messed up qualifying again.

[Fullrevs]

Originally Posted by myavu

That's what I am trying to say. He created that situation. If he was not that aggressive with the start he could have done it cleanly in the next corner or even later.

So you are saying that he braked hard and collided into Bottas due to no room for stopping on time. And that is called poor judgement. Vettel screwed it and lost precious points to LH. On the process he destroyed VB's chances too.

As per you Bottas should have open up more room and let Vettel through to avoid a contact, right. Dear Friend, he is racing for positions.

And there was enough room to the left. I hope you had watched the race live. Else here is the screen grab. Only thing Vettel had to do was to turn his steering left post initial braking.

You seem to contradict yourself by saying Bottas should have been that aggressive because he was racing for position, but Vettel should have been less aggressive and careful (was he not racing for position?). Any space on the left that you mention was not part of the racing parts of the circuit which would have been the instinct for any driver. Those blue and red lines are a very abrasive surface and would have blistered the tyres or cause severe graining.

So you are saying that he braked hard and collided into Bottas due to no room for stopping on time.

No! I am saying that he collided into Bottas after slamming on the brakes early as he hoped to keep 3rd and catch up maybe a few miles further down the track(by allowing Bottas to take the 1st corner the way he did).Cold tyres, smooth surface of the circuit are things that attributed to him colliding with Bottas. As Seb mentioned, he had to open up the steering a bit to try and not make the situation worse.

I am not saying Bottas should have left enough room, he could have taken a wider line. Max Verstappen pretty much left the circuit and joined a couple chicanes after. Concluding that the whole thing was a 'racing incident'. I guess its best to end this by saying 'we agree to disagree'.

Yes I did watch the race LIVE!

[myavu]

Originally Posted by Fullrevs

You seem to contradict yourself by saying Bottas should have been that aggressive because he was racing for position, but Vettel should have been less aggressive and careful (was he not racing for position?).

But doing so he destroyed Bottas' race, not the other way around.

Any space on the left that you mention was not part of the racing parts of the circuit which would have been the instinct for any driver

More experienced people like David Coulthard observed the same that Bottas had left enough room for Vettel. Even if abrasive or not to avoid a collision sensible drivers are used to take their outer wheels off the track or over the kerb.

I am not saying Bottas should have left enough room, he could have taken a wider line.

If you are saying that Bottas could have taken a wider line in that same way I am also saying Vettel could have in a controlled aggression. He was very clear that the guys ahead was on a harder compound and won't get a better traction than him. But once rolling they will be hard to beat with their engine before the braking zone.

My point is Vettel is shooting his own feet with his brain fad and not for the first time. When you have a quicker car you can just disappear after the first corner. If the gap between the competition is mere 10th of a second you have to be brilliant with your on track actions. No need to be over aggressive. Keep the cool. Use your resources wisely and work a better team strategy (under cut , over cut etc.)

[Fullrevs]

Originally Posted by myavu

But doing so he destroyed Bottas' race, not the other way around.

More experienced people like David Coulthard observed the same that Bottas had left enough room for Vettel. Even if abrasive or not to avoid a collision sensible drivers are used to take their outer wheels off the track or over the kerb.

If you are saying that Bottas could have taken a wider line in that same way I am also saying Vettel could have in a controlled aggression. He was very clear that the guys ahead was on a harder compound and won't get a better traction than him. But once rolling they will be hard to beat with their engine before the braking zone.

My point is Vettel is shooting his own feet with his brain fad and not for the first time. When you have a quicker car you can just disappear after the first corner. If the gap between the competition is mere 10th of a second you have to be brilliant with your on track actions. No need to be over aggressive. Keep the cool. Use your resources wisely and work a better team strategy (under cut , over cut etc.)

All this happened in a period of what? 2-3 seconds maybe? F1 drivers or any racers for that matter simply gun it and hope to be in front of everyone they are competing against. It was never a given that Mercedez would run off at the front and its wrong for Vettel to think that and go "careful" with his start. He had every opportunity to take it to Lewis and at least think that 2nd place is better than 5th or at that point in time - 3rd.

I commend his effort. I commend his body language and his maturity, he quietly accepted what the stewards penalised him with. He had to get ahead of 2nd Mercedez at least because VB barely lit the timing screens all weekend.

I don't think it was a brain fade for Vettel. He had a brain fade in Mexico last year going at Ricciardo the way he did, that was stupid IMO. This last weekend seemed like he actually did some of the thinking you expected him to do and went for it. Such as braking early, if he wasn't thinking I think even Hamilton would have been affected by this. Just ask Romain Grosjean - he barely thinks.

[myavu]

Originally Posted by Fullrevs

All this happened in a period of what? 2-3 seconds maybe? F1 drivers or any racers for that matter simply gun it and hope to be in front of everyone they are competing against.

That will not make him a champion any more. May lose points consistently. For his driving style better take the pole and run away. For me he is 4 time world champion but not a mature racer under pressure.

[shibujp]

I find all the cacophony about Vettel amusing to say the least. On one end we say we want to see more racing and then when there is a racing incident we go to town demanding that drivers be more careful.

Unfortunately I could not watch the race and got a chance to see the incident for myself today. I actually do not see anything wrong that Vettel did. As a racer he did what he should do - get the best start and try to gain a position. He was the only one in the top three that started on ultrasofts which may have helped his getaway. In doing so he held his line besides Bottas. Bottas closed the door in-spite of having room. You can see that Bottas took a tighter line into the corner than Lewis did in front. And it may be possible that Lewis himself spotted the charging Ferrari and did enough to box it up. Is it Bottas' fault. I don't did so. He did what he should do as a racer as well.

In fact one of the main reasons Vettel was able to limit the impact on his race was the triggering of the safety car by a totally unrelated incident on the same lap. This ensured that the other cars could not build up a big gap and were closely bunched up together.

Anyway, Vettel locked up exactly like Verstappen did at the Chinese GP. Post the ensuring fracas Verstappen actually finished the race higher than Vettel inspite of a 10 second penalty. Then Mr Hamilton had no issues with the unfairness of it all and neither did Lauda. Verstappen apologised as well.

It is a racing incident to me and I am fine that Vettel got a 5 second penalty. That's how it is. Lewis and Lauda may be upset that they did not get the advantage in the constructor and drivers championships that they thought they might have got by using Bottas to control the pace and allowing Lewis to roar off into the horizon. Verstappen upset that media does not treat his incidents and Vettel's at par. These are just examples of the kettle calling the pot black.

Originally Posted by myavu

That will not make him a champion any more. May loose points consistently. For his driving style better take the pole and run away. For me he is 4 time world champion but not a mature racer under pressure.

I hope he keeps this style. Mature behavior off the circuit and a guy who goes for a gap on it. He made 15 places up to finish in 5th with his immature driving. Cool!

Drive on,
Shibu.

[Joxster]

Here are the highlights for anyone who missed the race

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccFaUJXB0KU

Cheers

[ferrarirules]

Hard luck for Ferrari this weekend. It was a good clean race by Hamilton. Max took advantage of the turn 1 issue by skipping Turn 1 and 2. But a much cleaner race by him. Awesome drive by Vettel to recover from the earlier crash. Kimi showed some pace for a change and got one Ferrari on the podium.
But there needs to be special mention for one driver "Charles Lelerc". That kid qualified 8th with a Sauber better than likes of Haas, Force India and Mclaren. Then went on to finish 10th in the race. He has some potential, he should get the Ferrari drive for next year.

Originally Posted by myavu

And there was enough room to the left. I hope you had watched the race live. Else here is the screen grab. Only thing Vettel had to do was to turn his steering left post initial braking.

Please don't be selective with your analysis of the event. Please see the screenshots below.

Screenshot 1 - Vettel had a great start. He lifted of early as he didn't have space. He was following the same line as Hamilton did. He had a small lock up and at the same time Bottas swooped across him trying to close the door on him.



Screenshot 2 - Vettel is in a lock up but Bottas is still coming across him. And Vettel is on the same line as Hamilton took. Yes he could have slowed down but as a racing driver you are not tuned to slow down as you will not lose advantage only to Bottas but you will also lose advantage to others behind as well.

Originally Posted by myavu

That will not make him a champion any more. May loose points consistently. For his driving style better take the pole and run away. For me he is 4 time world champion but not a mature racer under pressure.

Hence it was a racing incident. Stewards deemed that it was worth 5 seconds so be it. But he didn't do anything wrong to say that he is immature. Had that been the case he wouldn't have cleanly overtaken 10 cars afterwards.

Originally Posted by Hatari

Max summed it up perfectly in the post race interview saying the media should now get on Vettel's case telling him to change his driving style!

Max screwed up 5 times in first 5 races of the season. He doesn't have the credentials to comment on a event like this. Vettel is not getting into such events every race.

Originally Posted by shibujp

I

Anyway, Vettel locked up exactly like Verstappen did at the Chinese GP. Post the ensuring fracas Verstappen actually finished the race higher than Vettel inspite of a 10 second penalty. Then Mr Hamilton had no issues with the unfairness of it all and neither did Lauda. Verstappen apologised as well.

It is a racing incident to me and I am fine that Vettel got a 5 second penalty. That's how it is. Lewis and Lauda may be upset that they did not get the advantage in the constructor and drivers championships that they thought they might have got by using Bottas to control the pace and allowing Lewis to roar off into the horizon. Verstappen upset that media does not treat his incidents and Vettel's at par. These are just examples of the kettle calling the pot black.

+1 - Very well Said. Couldn't agree more. Lauda and Hamilton didn't have comments when Verstappen banged into Vettel because they gained an advantage out of it but they didn't a same advantage this time.

[myavu]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

Please don't be selective with your analysis of the event. Please see the screenshots below.

I am not selective with my analysis. The only thing again I am saying is he shoot his own feet with these moves. Same in Baku too. In both attempt he didn't gained anything. I don't how much people will support his this kind of move while losing valuable points when Ferrari is an equivalent quick car as Merc. In my analysis it was an unnecessary move from Vettel. With his experience he could have turned that 3rd into 2nd or minimum 3rd at the flags.

Had that been the case he wouldn't have cleanly overtaken 10 cars afterwards.

Originally Posted by shibujp

He made 15 places up to finish in 5th with his immature driving

Seriously? There was no Mercs or Red Bulls or even his own teammate Kimi in that said 10 cars. Ferrari was easily the faster car and Vettel himself acknowledged that heavy headwind assisted that quick progress. Had Bottas car not been damaged (under-body) he would have been there in 6th easily or may fought for 5th too.

I am again reiterating that the collision was a racing incident. But what Vettel did was unnecessary for a 4 time Champion when Championship is achieved only by more points not less.

[ChiragM]

Originally Posted by avdhesh15

I am wondering if this is the first time ever F1 has 3 consecutive weekends?

Yup. This is the first time ever. Should be interesting for us but tough for the teams and drivers.