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Old 28th March 2022, 10:32   #31
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Re: 2022 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix | Jeddah Street Circuit | 25-28th March, 2022

The initial part seemed like a snooze fest with everyone holding station 2 seconds apart. The race really came alive after the Safety Car.

I do have one question though. How did Max stay within 2 seconds during the VSC (he was little over 2 seconds before the VSC) when the rest of the pack was widening (as is normally expected).

The stricken cars parked on the pit lane entry didn't help Lewis. Would have ended up in slightly better place than 10th. That said, we now see how it is to charge up the field when you are not in the best car in the field.
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Old 28th March 2022, 10:33   #32
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Re: 2022 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix | Jeddah Street Circuit | 25-28th March, 2022

Superb, clean race. Wish more cars could have finished though. One feels bad for Bottas and Alonso.

Redbull on the other hand, are fastest on the straight in both the races so far, considerably over the Ferrari. It was nice to see both Mercedes among the points, especially Hamilton, who could have finished up higher had it not been for closure of pit lanes.

Verstappen was superb yesterday while overtaking Leclerc, learnt from the last race, showed uncharacteristic patience and bide his time and overtook at the right time. Seems to be a runaway year for Redbull, unless Ferrari somehow manage to put up a sustained and strong showing this year.

Last edited by moralfibre : 28th March 2022 at 10:34. Reason: Typos.
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Old 28th March 2022, 10:37   #33
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Re: 2022 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix | Jeddah Street Circuit | 25-28th March, 2022

Amazing race.

What a fight between Max and Leclerc. Both cars are competitive with I guess Ferrari holding edge. Ferrari looks more stable car of entire lot after two races with new regulations. Coming back to the race Perez was highly unlucky with Safety Car just after the lap he pitted. He had a super lap taking pole and then he started very well and extended the lead over Leclerc. But then Latifi had to happen just after he pitted.

Alonso was looking very good for a high point finish. Very unlucky and Alpine need to look into this reliability issues and resolve to give a car to Alonso to fight with.

Mercedes did well to get those points given that they really lack the performance. Once they pull up on that front, it will be amazing to see fight between Ferrari, RB and Mercedes.

Best part of the race was fight between Max and Leclerc. First Leclerc pulling that DRS move on Max, then both locking up trying to keep DRS advantage and then finally Max pulling off the move over Leclerc to take lead.
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Old 28th March 2022, 10:55   #34
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Re: 2022 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix | Jeddah Street Circuit | 25-28th March, 2022

Superb race! Enjoyed every bit of it.

Feel sorry for Perez, luck wasn't on his side.

The racing was so clean and hard, yet again, this race.

In fact we have seen more wheel-to-wheel action in the last two races from Charles and Max than the whole of last year between Max and Lewis. And there was no contact between the two whatsoever.

Absolutely brilliant racing! Even Charles enjoyed it despite losing the lead to Max. Just goes to show how good the racing can be when the drivers in question display mutual respect towards each other.

As things stand at the moment, you can't split these two - Max and Charles. They are at the top of their game! Can't wait for the next race now. It's going to be a long and painful 10-odd days.

EDIT: Max has been complaining and whining quite a lot on team radio. Is this a symptom that drivers display after winning WDC?

Last edited by suhaas307 : 28th March 2022 at 11:04.
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Old 28th March 2022, 11:00   #35
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Re: 2022 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix | Jeddah Street Circuit | 25-28th March, 2022

What a race !!!!

+ 1 for FIA to come up with regulations which allows wheel to wheel racing
+ 10 for Haas to get back K-Mag than a sponsored driver for the money they badly need
K-Mag clearly showed why talent trumps money in a competitive environment that was some intelligent driving against a 7 time world champion
absolute delight to watch Leclerec and Max battle it out for the win that was some clean racing. Although I could have lived without the constant complain of Max on Leclerec about speeding in yellow sectors and crossing the white lane but credit where it is due at such high speeds checking your opponents minor infractions battling out every lap with half a second gap is something you wont see everyday
Feel for Perez he was driving better than Max and Leclerec without the safety car incident brought on by Latifi (another driver who is wasting a seat in F1) I'm pretty sure Perez would have won handsomely
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Old 28th March 2022, 11:19   #36
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Re: 2022 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix | Jeddah Street Circuit | 25-28th March, 2022

What a race!!!!
The track showed how closely the cars can actually follow on fast turns.
Max and Leclerc slugging it out in the last few laps was an absolute joy to watch. Both of them locking up before the DRS detection line for the grandstand straight was a 1st time. Smart racing was what was required from Max and it paid off.
Feel a bit sad for Checo. 1st pole but seems he destined to remain an underdog. The worst thing that could have happened was an SC right after he changed tires and that's what happened ( I do feel RB fell prey to Ferrari's dummy ).
One of the best comments heard during the race was that of Alpine's team principle Otmar Szafnauer when Alonso and Ocon were battling. No team orders till there was a threat from behind. He clearly mentioned 'We are letting them race'. And race they did!!
Australia up next should be good fun. And once Mercs come into their own, the season should really open up.
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Old 28th March 2022, 11:32   #37
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Re: 2022 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix | Jeddah Street Circuit | 25-28th March, 2022

Quote:
Originally Posted by narayans80 View Post
... How did Max stay within 2 seconds during the VSC (he was little over 2 seconds before the VSC) when the rest of the pack was widening (as is normally expected)...
He was 4+ seconds behind at one point, then caught back up to the previous gap.

VSC delta time is calculated in marshalling sectors, as in the lowest (fastest) time allowed for a car to reach one electronic flag display from the previous one. Consider it as driving against a virtual car doing a preset time, you can't be caught going faster than that. Slower than delta is positive (expected behavior), faster is negative (will attract penalties). There's no specified slowest time in the regulations, besides wording to the effect 'no car be driven unnecessarily slowly or erratically'.

A driver can fall behind during a VSC if they're too conservative driving to the delta (which Max appeared to be initially) while another is pushing it closer. It's a risk/reward scenario. Teams usually keep reminding driver on the radio to keep 'delta positive', both to not violate safety regulations but also not to fall further behind than they were prior to VSC deployment.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 28th March 2022 at 11:33.
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Old 28th March 2022, 12:00   #38
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Re: 2022 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix | Jeddah Street Circuit | 25-28th March, 2022

Ferrari have really stepped it up this season. Just goes to show what confidence can do to a team The call for the undercut / change at the last moment or if it was a bluff all along, super clean double stacking pitstops and their overall pitstop finesse - so good to see !

Like everyone has already said, super clean and hard racing between Max & Charles, and felt so bad for Checo. The season is looking great and it's going to be Ferrari - RedBull fight. My money is on Ferrari
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Old 28th March 2022, 12:05   #39
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Re: 2022 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix | Jeddah Street Circuit | 25-28th March, 2022

Superb racing. Charles has quite a matured head on those shoulder using the DRS line so well. Max has these tactics to learn for sure.
Hope they continue to swap wins.

Shame for Checo with the safety car, but it will give him a lot of confidence.

Also gutted for Alonso and Alpine, nice 'recovery' post Bahrain to be quicker than the the Alpha Tauri and Alpha Romeo. The Haas will take some catching yet.

Felt Ocon was a little bit too aggressive on 1 move, but commendable that Alonso didnt make a remark about it and they just got on with business.
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Old 28th March 2022, 12:13   #40
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Re: 2022 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix | Jeddah Street Circuit | 25-28th March, 2022

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
The season is looking great and it's going to be Ferrari - RedBull fight. My money is on Ferrari
Sure seems to be that way. However, I wouldn’t discount Mercedes catching up and maybe passing these guys soon. There was only 1 week between the Bahrain and Saudi Arabia race, now the gap goes to 2 weeks. Let’s see how things develop.

I would love a 3 way fight with Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes and even more if the other side of the garage (Sainz, Perez and George) get in the fight. Imagine the fun for us if we have 6 drivers fighting for the title and they soon start to not get along with each other as things heat up, as was the case with Rosberg and Hamilton.

Exiting times for sure with the cars able to follow and overtake, mainly the re-overtake makes it even more enjoyable.

Cheers
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Old 28th March 2022, 12:20   #41
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Re: 2022 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix | Jeddah Street Circuit | 25-28th March, 2022

What a weekend! Ham qualifying 16th, Perez on Pole, Leclerc taking the lead due to safety car and then finally Max overtaking at the right place and time!

RB and Ferrari are quite close wrt performance right now (Ferrari has slight upper hand IMO) and Perez has also picked up his game. Would love to see Sainz/Perez beating their teammates.

And how good were the midfield battles as well? Ocon vs Alonso, Lando and Gasly also getting into the act. Bottas also fought hard before retiring.

Mercs will definitely improve but the deficit is huge. Parallelly RB and Ferraris are also going to improve so I feel they are out of contention for both the titles. Although they will play deciding roles in the second half of the season.
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Old 28th March 2022, 13:24   #42
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Re: 2022 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix | Jeddah Street Circuit | 25-28th March, 2022

Quote:
Originally Posted by narayans80 View Post

I do have one question though. How did Max stay within 2 seconds during the VSC (he was little over 2 seconds before the VSC) when the rest of the pack was widening (as is normally expected).
Everybody seems to have let slip on this bit though. Max clearly closed on Leclerc at the end of that VSC. Didn't help that Leclerc's hards were struggling more than Max's to get back to working temp.

Also the gap between Max and Sainz went up by an additional 6-7 seconds post the VSC. Think there s some clarity needed there.
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Old 28th March 2022, 22:27   #43
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Re: 2022 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix | Jeddah Street Circuit | 25-28th March, 2022

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
He was 4+ seconds behind at one point, then caught back up to the previous gap.

VSC delta time is calculated in marshalling sectors, as in the lowest (fastest) time allowed for a car to reach one electronic flag display from the previous one. Consider it as driving against a virtual car doing a preset time, you can't be caught going faster than that. Slower than delta is positive (expected behavior), faster is negative (will attract penalties). There's no specified slowest time in the regulations, besides wording to the effect 'no car be driven unnecessarily slowly or erratically'.
Do they have a speed limiter button for VSC like they have for pit lane speeds?

I understand a small advantage was also gained due to Red Bull tyres holding temperatures better than Ferrari's, but as a fan I feel making up 2 seconds seem unfair under restricted driving speeds.

Having said that, if you compare this to a real life scenario, you will understand that even a minor delay in reaction time to a VSC call or a Yellow flag may result in time lost. Its virtually the time you take to blink.
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Old 28th March 2022, 23:17   #44
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Re: 2022 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix | Jeddah Street Circuit | 25-28th March, 2022

Hope the respect between Red Bull and Ferrari is maintained. The rivalry between RB and Mercedes last season was ugly in comparison.
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Old 28th March 2022, 23:28   #45
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Re: 2022 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix | Jeddah Street Circuit | 25-28th March, 2022

Quote:
Originally Posted by autotranny View Post
Do they have a speed limiter button for VSC like they have for pit lane speeds?
No, they give you a target time to drive to, as the delta varies by track and isn't a static number like the pitlane speed limit. The delta is provided by the standardized ECU, displayed on the driver's steering wheel, and measured via the car's GPS traces.

Quote:
... I feel making up 2 seconds seem unfair under restricted driving speeds.
Max was ~2 seconds behind when VSC was deployed. The gap expanded because he was presumably doing more than required to meet the VSC delta and his team might have told him so. Unless he made up part or all of the original gap to Leclerc, where does the question of fairness arise? If he were to break VSC rules at any point to 'gain' time, the evidence is cut and dried as the captured by the ECU.

Quote:
...even a minor delay in reaction time to a VSC call or a Yellow flag may result in time lost. Its virtually the time you take to blink.
Right, split second reactions can gain or lose chunks of time. VSC is also tricky because it can end in any marshalling sector, compared to a full SC that ends at a designated spot. Also, a driver is required to meet the delta of the marshalling sector they're in when the race is green-flagged again (section 40.5 of the regs), so another potential fraction to be gained or lost by where one is in a particular marshalling sector, compared to the nearest car ahead or behind, and how quickly one reacts to the green flag itself which is again randomized (displays go green anytime between 10-15 seconds after teams are notified VSC ENDING) to avoid drivers abusing it.

It's a sport governed by milliseconds, and a switched-on driver can make a huge difference. Remember when Bottas timed his start (Austria 2017) so perfectly everyone was convinced it was a jump-start until evidence proved otherwise? Vettel refused to believe it even afterwards, the episode dubbed 'psychic fingers'.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 28th March 2022 at 23:37. Reason: Correction
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