Why is the Ferrari F2005 off the pace?

po10cy · 17th August 2005, 13:26

What's the real reason for Ferrari's F2005 car not being up to pace of the awesome McLaren MP4/20 and Renault RS25?

Are the Ferrari driver's just not upto the task anymore or perhaps the Bridgestone tyres are the problem?

Far as I know, its none of the above 2 mentioned reasons. The main reason Ferrari is struggling, is because the F2005 is simply not up to scratch!!!

There's 6 GP's left and Ferrari are yet to challenge for a race win this! They would have never won at Indy (US GP) if the Michelin teams raced and that's a fact.

Facts are Facts, the F2005 is not doing the business this season and its not Bridgestone's fault!!!!

2L8uLoose · 17th August 2005, 13:32

You said it dude...
Ferrari was caught napping this year... I hope they have got a good wake up call for next year..

merve_extreme · 17th August 2005, 13:34

i think the ferrari is mostly struggling because the tyre and aredynamic package they designed was such that it will put lesser stess on the tyres rather than giving higher grip.

but in doing this they comprimised so much that they have simply messed it up.

po10cy · 17th August 2005, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

i think the ferrari is mostly struggling because the tyre and aredynamic package they designed was such that it will put lesser stess on the tyres rather than giving higher grip.

but in doing this they comprimised so much that they have simply messed it up.

Well actually the issues is, they are losing grip over the weekend! It get progressively worse from Friday to Sunday. By the end of the race, they are just so slow, because of a lack of grip...

btw, the worse aero package for a top team in 2005 has to Williams BMW...

sridhar24 · 17th August 2005, 16:18

Ferrari are completely lost this season and they have already stopped the development of their current cars and are working on the next season's car. I think they will be back next season again as front runners. Main problem for them is the bridgestone tyres. Theres certainly no problem with drivers and MS is doing great job.

po10cy · 17th August 2005, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by sridhar24

Ferrari are completely lost this season and they have already stopped the development of their current cars and are working on the next season's car. I think they will be back next season again as front runners. Main problem for them is the bridgestone tyres. Theres certainly no problem with drivers and MS is doing great job.

I seriously doubt that its the Bridgestone tyres! Ferrari complaining that they are losing grip. Both Jordan and Minardi don't seem to be having the same problem, therefore surely its not the tyres.

If you look at performance in terms of lap times, etc gained againt McLaren (I used McLaren because they have the quickest car), Ferrari's gains have not been anywhere near Jordan's and Minardi's, reinforcing its not the tyres fault, but the F2005's.

The car is simply way to hard on its tyre's causing them to be worn excessively and therefore it loses grip towards the end of a race.

redrage · 17th August 2005, 16:58

The person heading the ferrari aerodynamics stuff... Rory byrne has said to have left ferrari this season, that has taken a toll on the aero-dynamic devlopment of the car....
and of course those bridgestones aint helping either.

turbo_v12 · 24th August 2005, 16:59

Guys if Rory Byrne has left Ferrari then does this mean that Ferrari is going to continue down the road from now on? And why, if Bridgestones do not pose a problem to Jordans andMinardis, why is it causing a problem to the Ferraris? Is it that this new rubber compound cannot match upto Ferrari's pace, while Jordans and Minardis are a lot slower?

kphilip · 24th August 2005, 19:22

man, i was a serious ferrari fan and this year they all messed up, could nt believe they failed to a team which last year was not ever a competitor..this years ferrari engine sux big time..

aseem · 24th August 2005, 20:18

Success is a combination of all components working together seamlessly. The Ferrari F2005 is simply not there in every department. The most easiest to spot are the tyres, and the chasis. However if you look at BMW Williams you notice they have the worst aero package, yet in some races there performance (power) has been amazing. So Ferrari is also lacking in shear engine power this year. This also leads to a lack of motivation of the drivers. Its not easy to overtake from the back of the grid even if you have the pace, your speed is dedicated from guys in front, so a bad qualifying results in a bad race. They have good reliability but the tyre deterioration is too much. Simply speaking its a lot easy to make a new car from scratch and to make it fast, however to fix a car/tyre that have been hogged by problems is a totally different ball game. They improved mid season in race in which Schumacher challenged Alonso, however they have not been able to keep pace with other teams which improved this time round too. So in all they are trying to make a package (combination) work, but this combination/package has too many problems to be fixed. So they are better off focusing for the year ahead on a totally different car.

F50 · 24th August 2005, 23:30

I think the tyres are to be blamed to a certain extent. F2005 has the pace may be not the dominating pace as last years but tyres hampers that bit of pace out of the car.
Michelins known for running longer hence the current rule suits them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by po10cy

I seriously doubt that its the Bridgestone tyres! Ferrari complaining that they are losing grip. Both Jordan and Minardi don't seem to be having the same problem, therefore surely its not the tyres.

Ya both Minardi and Jordon runs on Bridgestones but they dont get the same tyres as the Ferrari gets. Tyres are developed specially for Ferrari. So comparing them is useless.
And talk about grip, British GP... car starts to understeer with 3 turns to go on Qualifying lap ... the those lasting whole race distance .... forget it.

papps · 25th August 2005, 03:29

tyres one one of the reasons that ferrai is off the pace and the other reason is, the way ferrari dominated last year they probably didnt expect mclaren and renault to so much faster, they underestimated they other teams and didnt work to ge t a faster car for 2005, while teams like mclaren, renault, toyota have taken a step up in development, ferarri hasnt moved up maybe a bit down or stayed there.... and with the cars being off the pace the drivers seem to loose interest and stop pushing the turkish GP was one example, before that one of them were atleast finishing in the points or on the podium.... they will have to work very hard for 2006 and now with rubens gone they need a fast car for massa to keep up with michael for next year...

sridhar24 · 25th August 2005, 18:17

According to Ross Brawn a Ferrari senior aerodynamicist Nicolas Tombasis, left Ferrari and joined Mclaren and thats had a major effect on both the teams - Ferrari man helped Mclaren

Deeps · 26th August 2005, 15:32

Brawn is just being a loser. No individual can have this great an impact on any team. Yes a Ferrari man joined Mclaren. Designers, engineers etc. jumping ship to another team has always been part of F1. But both teams involved always have ways of dealing with the issue.

IMO, these are the reasons why Ferrari is struggling rather than why F2005 is off the pace:
1: The arrogance on ferrari's part to underestimate their rivals and start with last years car.

2: The bridgestones obviously. All that crap by ferrari that Michelin has an advantage by having so many top teams on board is just that...crap. Guess who was responsible for the situation occuring in the first place?

3: The Drivers. Admit it or not, Schumacher is getting old and he is just not as hungry for the victories as he was before. In his words, he races for the love of racing. Barrichello also has half his mind on elsewhere. Not just from now but posibly from the time he decided to leave ferrari ( i am guessing around the time of winter testing).

4:Rory byrne. He was the mastermind behind the amazing designs of the cars that dominated F1. For the F2005, he has taken a back seat but is still supervising the design process. IMO, its not only the tyres but also the aerodynamic inefficiencies of the F2005 as compared to the Mp4-20 or the R25 that are responsible for the lack of pace.

5: After dominating for 5 years and now struggling to finish 5th, its possible that the environment in the Ferrari camp is not the same as it was before. I mean, the staff would have been disheartened by the lack of pace and that is probably hurting their ability to work at their best.

amitverma · 27th August 2005, 00:26

why Jordan and Minardi are not feeling the heat?
lets face it, those cars dont have as much power on tap, neither do they possess a good aero package. ferrari is a front-runner. i am not going to say that bridgestones are solely responsible. but they are to a certain extent only...rest is ferrari's negligience towards the competetion at the start of the season.

17th August 2005, 13:26	#1
po10cy Newbie Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: South Africa Posts: 15 Thanked: 0 Times	Why is the Ferrari F2005 off the pace? What's the real reason for Ferrari's F2005 car not being up to pace of the awesome McLaren MP4/20 and Renault RS25? Are the Ferrari driver's just not upto the task anymore or perhaps the Bridgestone tyres are the problem? Far as I know, its none of the above 2 mentioned reasons. The main reason Ferrari is struggling, is because the F2005 is simply not up to scratch!!! There's 6 GP's left and Ferrari are yet to challenge for a race win this! They would have never won at Indy (US GP) if the Michelin teams raced and that's a fact. Facts are Facts, the F2005 is not doing the business this season and its not Bridgestone's fault!!!!
	() Thanks

17th August 2005, 13:32	#2
2L8uLoose BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 628 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	You said it dude... Ferrari was caught napping this year... I hope they have got a good wake up call for next year..
	() Thanks

17th August 2005, 13:34	#3
merve_extreme Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,359 Thanked: 18 Times View My Garage	i think the ferrari is mostly struggling because the tyre and aredynamic package they designed was such that it will put lesser stess on the tyres rather than giving higher grip. but in doing this they comprimised so much that they have simply messed it up.
	() Thanks

17th August 2005, 16:18	#5
sridhar24 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 1,046 Thanked: 88 Times	Ferrari are completely lost this season and they have already stopped the development of their current cars and are working on the next season's car. I think they will be back next season again as front runners. Main problem for them is the bridgestone tyres. Theres certainly no problem with drivers and MS is doing great job.
	() Thanks

17th August 2005, 16:58	#7
redrage BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 553 Thanked: 106 Times	The person heading the ferrari aerodynamics stuff... Rory byrne has said to have left ferrari this season, that has taken a toll on the aero-dynamic devlopment of the car.... and of course those bridgestones aint helping either.
	() Thanks

24th August 2005, 16:59	#8
turbo_v12 BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Thane Posts: 457 Thanked: Once View My Garage	Guys if Rory Byrne has left Ferrari then does this mean that Ferrari is going to continue down the road from now on? And why, if Bridgestones do not pose a problem to Jordans andMinardis, why is it causing a problem to the Ferraris? Is it that this new rubber compound cannot match upto Ferrari's pace, while Jordans and Minardis are a lot slower?
	() Thanks

24th August 2005, 19:22	#9
kphilip BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Cochin Posts: 333 Thanked: 6 Times	man, i was a serious ferrari fan and this year they all messed up, could nt believe they failed to a team which last year was not ever a competitor..this years ferrari engine sux big time..
	() Thanks

24th August 2005, 20:18	#10
aseem Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Delhi Posts: 1,730 Thanked: 441 Times	Success is a combination of all components working together seamlessly. The Ferrari F2005 is simply not there in every department. The most easiest to spot are the tyres, and the chasis. However if you look at BMW Williams you notice they have the worst aero package, yet in some races there performance (power) has been amazing. So Ferrari is also lacking in shear engine power this year. This also leads to a lack of motivation of the drivers. Its not easy to overtake from the back of the grid even if you have the pace, your speed is dedicated from guys in front, so a bad qualifying results in a bad race. They have good reliability but the tyre deterioration is too much. Simply speaking its a lot easy to make a new car from scratch and to make it fast, however to fix a car/tyre that have been hogged by problems is a totally different ball game. They improved mid season in race in which Schumacher challenged Alonso, however they have not been able to keep pace with other teams which improved this time round too. So in all they are trying to make a package (combination) work, but this combination/package has too many problems to be fixed. So they are better off focusing for the year ahead on a totally different car. Last edited by aseem : 24th August 2005 at 20:20.
	() Thanks

25th August 2005, 03:29	#12
papps BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Newcastle, UK Posts: 271 Thanked: 0 Times	tyres one one of the reasons that ferrai is off the pace and the other reason is, the way ferrari dominated last year they probably didnt expect mclaren and renault to so much faster, they underestimated they other teams and didnt work to ge t a faster car for 2005, while teams like mclaren, renault, toyota have taken a step up in development, ferarri hasnt moved up maybe a bit down or stayed there.... and with the cars being off the pace the drivers seem to loose interest and stop pushing the turkish GP was one example, before that one of them were atleast finishing in the points or on the podium.... they will have to work very hard for 2006 and now with rubens gone they need a fast car for massa to keep up with michael for next year...
	() Thanks

25th August 2005, 18:17	#13
sridhar24 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 1,046 Thanked: 88 Times	According to Ross Brawn a Ferrari senior aerodynamicist Nicolas Tombasis, left Ferrari and joined Mclaren and thats had a major effect on both the teams - Ferrari man helped Mclaren
	() Thanks

26th August 2005, 15:32	#14
Deeps Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Delhi/Noida Posts: 1,116 Thanked: 170 Times	Brawn is just being a loser. No individual can have this great an impact on any team. Yes a Ferrari man joined Mclaren. Designers, engineers etc. jumping ship to another team has always been part of F1. But both teams involved always have ways of dealing with the issue. IMO, these are the reasons why Ferrari is struggling rather than why F2005 is off the pace: 1: The arrogance on ferrari's part to underestimate their rivals and start with last years car. 2: The bridgestones obviously. All that crap by ferrari that Michelin has an advantage by having so many top teams on board is just that...crap. Guess who was responsible for the situation occuring in the first place? 3: The Drivers. Admit it or not, Schumacher is getting old and he is just not as hungry for the victories as he was before. In his words, he races for the love of racing. Barrichello also has half his mind on elsewhere. Not just from now but posibly from the time he decided to leave ferrari ( i am guessing around the time of winter testing). 4:Rory byrne. He was the mastermind behind the amazing designs of the cars that dominated F1. For the F2005, he has taken a back seat but is still supervising the design process. IMO, its not only the tyres but also the aerodynamic inefficiencies of the F2005 as compared to the Mp4-20 or the R25 that are responsible for the lack of pace. 5: After dominating for 5 years and now struggling to finish 5th, its possible that the environment in the Ferrari camp is not the same as it was before. I mean, the staff would have been disheartened by the lack of pace and that is probably hurting their ability to work at their best.
	() Thanks

27th August 2005, 00:26	#15
amitverma BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 426 Thanked: 140 Times	why Jordan and Minardi are not feeling the heat? lets face it, those cars dont have as much power on tap, neither do they possess a good aero package. ferrari is a front-runner. i am not going to say that bridgestones are solely responsible. but they are to a certain extent only...rest is ferrari's negligience towards the competetion at the start of the season.
	() Thanks