[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by selvagp

@smilenow, I can't smile now. I am very saddened to know that you decided enough is enough and called off your journey with the beloved Punto. I am sailing the same boat, my last two services have cost me 100+K.

100k?! Can you scan and post the invoices here for everyone's benefit?

What's your new ride that replaced this little beauty?

I see people asking the same question which only means one thing. You have not gone through the thread. Poor guy has mentioned many times already that it is a Hyundai Grand i10.

[selvagp]

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

100k?! Can you scan and post the invoices here for everyone's benefit?


I see people asking the same question which only means one thing. You have not gone through the thread. Poor guy has mentioned many times already that it is a Hyundai Grand i10.

Sorry I didn't read the thread entirely. Sure I will post the invoices, need to scan them.

[blueblooded]

Its disheartening to note that one avid fan of fiat loosing interest in the brand after so much of trouble and buying a Hyundai.There is no denying that fiat punto is best hatchback in terms of build ,ride and handling and miles ahead of its contenders ,the only fly in the ointment is often shoddy after sales and services.
I too own a 2010 fiat punto mjd active - and have driven around 90000 kms in three years.I had had my share of woes but i am quite happy with my car and given a chance i would buy fiat again .
regards
praveen singh

[Oranger]

Originally Posted by Rubbertramps

Trust me i am no passionate FIAT lover. But i loved the punto in its long drives, the dynamics it exudes. Volswagen users have reported engine related failures and have ended up paying lakhs ! When that doesnt deter the confidence of potential VW buyers, this is a lot saner !

The only thing that has to be noted here is that FIAT loves to be in the spotlight! The very reason could be maximum number of enthusiasts owning FIATS and continuously updating forums over issues as compared to other brands which the lay man gives a damn about. I have many experiences with failures and that too major engine failures on the Hyundai CRDis and some with the VW's but none seem to be discussed any where.
Being a Linea MJD owner for the past 4 years and 1,10,000 km in the odo, I can only tell that this is the best car anyone can buy this side of the 10 lac budget. I seriously find people getting over enthusiastic in pulling FIAT down whenever there's a chance to! My previous car, the "Maruti Esteem" had shown me bigger service bills than the Linea.
Each car has its own story, some good some bad. If someone has had a bad experience it dies not mean all the cars are bad and all owners are experiencing the same. My love for my FIAT still prevails!

[Rajat]

Great review. Truly speaks the amount of intrest you have taken in your car. While i am myself a fan of Fiat's built quality and steady driving stance, I have walked away from buying one due to the horror stories. I was two time lucky this year to be blessed with two stunning cars; The first was the New Dzire for my dad in February and a pre-owned 2009 Ritz in october as a replacement for my ageing wagon r.

Yes, I am a die hard Maruti fan! .

I did consider the Linea and Punto on both occasions but this is what I found the Marutis fairing better than the Fiats:

1. Fuel efficiency
2. Resale
3. Service Network
4. Light to drive in city
5. Availablity of spares
6. Volume of Month-on-month sales figures (they sell a whooping 16-18k dzires a month on an average)

Having said that, what I would miss in my cars is the tank like built and rattle free ride year after year and this i realise especially in the ritz which has already done 50k kms on the odo. Wish to see some good new Fiats coming to India which make me break my Maruti Monotony - ( the Ritz is the 7th maruti we have possessed in succession).

[chaudh2s]

Originally Posted by Speed Pujari

Unfortunately I beg to differ on this decision. I just happen to see a thread on team-bp when a Dzire collided with Accent with fatalities. The person inside the Dzire had mutliple fractures in his ankles. There had been good comments about the top end Dzire saying the Airbags saved the person etc.
But according to me, the Dzire did not do a good job. Isn't the car predominantly crash tested for head-on collision? If yes, then why did the ankle fractured? I am unable to fathom the fact that Dzire is a safe car for that matter.

And this is the primary reason for me going for Fiat despite of knowing the after sales niggles. Whatever parts issue, dealership issue, expensive parts etc. everything is forgiven if I know that me and my family is safe once on road. Check the accident pics thread and you will find couple of Fiat accidents at triple digit speeds without any scratch to the occupants.


Amen! .

Do you mean that if that person in dzire would have been in a non-ABS/Airbags car his ankle fratures could have been prevented?
Respected Sir, crash tests are done at a particular speed and at a particular angle (i guess, 60KM/h and offset, not sure). They don't cover all possible crash scenarios on road (that is really impossible to do), but only gives a rating which serves as a guide to judge relative active/passive safety components of a car.
I am pretty confident if a fiat gets involved in a crash with a running train or for that matter a truck (moving at 80kmph) head on, even a NCAP star rating of 10 won't save the occupants.
I am not denying the fact that fiat's are built tough, but the swift dezire too has similar NCAP rating as a punto. It all depends upon what/how one crash into, once on the road. So, always try to invest in the top most variant of any car model (the one with airbags, ESP, etc) as far as possible.

[Sweet Chariot]

I experienced similar failing parts on my my 2001 palio. the lower arm. the clutch master slave. the ac, the speedo meter failing. the steering getting harder and harder. are they all related to quality of these failing parts or can we term these parts as wear and tear parts?

[mchanna]

Really sorry to hear your story.
IMO, one need to understand the hue and cry of a car when it comes to maintaining it.
When people are saying series of failures it means you did not understood and corrected before it affected other parts. It may happen with any car not just FIAT. After all these are just mechanical parts.

Now why only FIAT are facing wear and tear issue? Because it is the only machine that you can rev and fly to any limits still being under control. When you rev and fly do all fun there ought to be some wear and tear. It has the best steering, brakes, suspensions and ofcourse build. Do you do the same with other cars? Probably I dont dare!

Its all said and agreed. FIAT has gone through very bad phase. Now they are 100 times better than what they were a year back. They are growing, they have opened 100 centers in 1 year and still expanding. Its not a joke. Gone are the days.

Unfortunately you have ended the journey when FIAT has just started it.
Wish you all the good luck with your grand i10 (I am sure you are not loving it as much you were loving FIAT (minus service) :-)).

BTW I own a Palio 1.6 Sports since 2007 with ~50K on the odo. And till now nothing major works carried out.
Except a regular oil change and a clutch master/slave cylinder change @43K.

[smilenow]

Originally Posted by joybhowmik

@ smilenow
I bought the Fiat Palio 1.9D ELX SP in June 2004, and let it go in August 2009 - a tad over 5 years.
In that time, the following major things were changed on my dime:
1) Steering rack
2) AC compressor
3) Front Suspension Arms and tie rods
4) Radiator
5) Pistons & cylinder sleeves (twice) - though the second time they opened the engine, they were contrite enough to admit that the first change was shoddy. So they only ended up charging me for the engine mounts the second time.
6) Fan
7) EGR (twice)
...
...

I used to go to Vivek Auto (Mathura Road). Just like you, I was a celebrity there. Yes, the chai-wallah/ cold-drinks wallah will probably recognise me for the custom I gave him, in addition to my regular deposits at Vivek. I bought the car new in 2004 for 5.7 L on-road. I bought it, despite my well-wishers advising against it. I bought it because it was a great drive, and looked solid, and was comfortable for my family and most importantly my young son.
I must have spent another 3 L at least just on maintenance and running repairs.
Luckily , I could afford to do so (money wise) at the time, because I was young - and had the interest and the cash.
But, I realised by 2009, around the time my daughter was born - that my time is better spent with my kids and family, and at my real job, rather than pacing up & down Vivek Auto's workshop.
So I sold it for 1 L. At the time, I knew I had made the calamitous decision of flushing away all the effort and good money. But, my time with the things that matter was more important than money.
We bought a Toyota Innova.... and quite frankly I hardly ever have a need to visit workshops again. It is a very welcome change.

Now back to Fiat and their cars. If someone has unlimited resources and unlimited time and never ending interest in fixing things that fail - by all means buy a Fiat.

Exactly my sentiments, and almost the same number of changes/work was done on my car.

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

We have both in our garage, and I would suggest the 75HP if usage is mainly going to be within the city. Otherwise, the 90HP. The 90HP's potential can never be used much in b2b traffic.

It is a timing chain, and any FIAT MultiJet is advised this change at 60k kms. It is not mentioned in white & black anywhere, but it is the norm and part of preventive maintenance now, not sure of the reason. It would cost somewhere around 6~10k with labor.

75 HP timing belt change is to be done between 95,000 to 1,00,000 KMS. Know this, since every time the car was there, the guys were interested to change the timing belt. Every time I refused, they were quoting around 8.5 for the entire job.

@smilenow:
For your reference
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-recalled.html
I do not know what went wrong in your case, had the CSC been replaced then, it would have saved you and FIAT the trouble.

God Damn it, even after being active and aware of almost everything going around about the scene,, I don't know how I missed this. What is surprising is , not once did the workshop people even let me get a whiff of anything like this on offer. Same recall was mentioned by some member on teamfiat about the speedo gear and pinion, but there was no official confirmation about it.

Originally Posted by Rubbertramps

I am aware of that and the same is documented in the manual for the 75hp punto. Now other forums also say the same thing that 75hp doesnt need timing belt change at 60k unlike 90hp. The reason i quoted that here cautiously not to make a fool of myself is since the SA insisted that there is no need of change for 75hp at 60k.

As noted above 75HP belt change is needed around 1,00,000 Kms.

Originally Posted by Biraj

Wish you many miles with smiles in your Grand i10. I always wish Hyundai could launch a turbo-charged Verna with improved dynamics. If only wishes were horses.

Kaash.............*Sigh*

To appreciate the dynamics of a Fiat, you will need a long drive on a highway. For the short stint on city roads, there are many nimble options available.

This.

Originally Posted by selvagp

@smilenow, I can't smile now. I am very saddened to know that you decided enough is enough and called off your journey with the beloved Punto. I am sailing the same boat, my last two services have cost me 100+K. I don't know if I got ripped off by the dealers but I paid so much because they promised it would be for her best (only internally, didn't spend a dime for her external bruises). I am still persisting with the beauty. I started to believe its worth much more to keep her than selling her for peanuts (exchange offers from none other than FIAT). No matter what troubles I have to go through with ASS.

100+K? Like DRIV3R mentioned, would be really interested to know as to what the hell happened.

Originally Posted by mchanna

Really sorry to hear your story.
IMO, one need to understand the hue and cry of a car when it comes to maintaining it.
When people are saying series of failures it means you did not understood and corrected before it affected other parts.

Wait, (*Looks left, then right, with awkward pause*), WHAT?
Please sir, answer a couple of very simple questions. (Read this in the politest tone ever)

• How in the world am I supposed to know that my clutch pedal will not come back to its natural non depressed situation while I am driving in the city? What parts could be connected to the Slave Cylinder completely failing that I should have understood and corrected before hand.
• Sir, exactly what part is connected to the power steering pump for it to fail on me, while I am exactly 30 Kms out of town? When everything else is fine, but specifically the steering stops functioning and requires me to transform into Vin Diesel to turn it just for a U turn. How is it linked with any other part and what should have been done to prevent this?
• On similar Lines, please tell as to what problem could have lead to the AC coil leaking and the successive compressor failure.
• Also, how come the engine was still in top shape, and why it didn't get affected?
• Last pointer, you open up the bonnet , since you are fond of checking things under the hood, and see there is diesel leakage out of the pump, what could be the co-relating factors to this that weren't understood or corrected?

Now consider the fact, that I am one of those mad guys who in August of this year, ran an old Honda City (2nd Gen) from Leh to Delhi via Manali, in the worst of weather, worst of all conditions on roads meant only for SUV's, solely on the knowledge of quite a lot of components of the car, and carrying out any repairs on a hand to hand basis.

Now why only FIAT are facing wear and tear issue? Because it is the only machine that you can rev and fly to any limits still being under control. When you rev and fly do all fun there ought to be some wear and tear. It has the best steering, brakes, suspensions and ofcourse build. Do you do the same with other cars? Probably I don't dare!

Saheb, I only did once take the car to its limits , top speed of 164 KMPH on the Panipat Toll way, rest of the ODO distance was primarily covered in Delhi. There was no revving, no flying. This was no 520D waiting for me to make it fly.

Its all said and agreed. FIAT has gone through very bad phase. Now they are 100 times better than what they were a year back. They are growing, they have opened 100 centers in 1 year and still expanding. Its not a joke. Gone are the days.

Had the same sentiment , when I bought the car. The same sentiment was there int he air then, it is there now. I don't disagree with it.

Unfortunately you have ended the journey when FIAT has just started it.Wish you all the good luck with your grand i10 (I am sure you are not loving it as much you were loving FIAT (minus service) :-)).

I absolutely love the Grand. Its only a week old, so I don't know what is incoming when it comes to services or anything. But I will tell you this much with confidence. Consider the following Scenario,

• You are young, have ready cash, ready to buy your first car.
• Go against Family, and veterans in the cars business who say this is a mistake.
• Buy a car, your only car (Only car for a family of 3) , mind you. Leave the cars of cousins aside, leave your buying capacity aside, and you are just starting your career.
• The car goes go through as described in the thread.
• You are spending so much time in the workshop at the cost of your Job, your family (who can't travel and have to loan out cars from cousins and family friends).
• You end up going to and fro in autos and taxis and walk a fair bit eating dust.
• Wait endlessly for SOME (not all), parts to arrive.
• Spend a colossal amount of money paying for things, that are not your fault at all. Especially, when you have done whatever the hell the manufacturer has recommended you to do, and have maintained your car, as much as you possibly can.
• You don't have the answer to the question " Ab kya hua?" and "Gaari ke saath hi lage rahoge ya jeevan mein kuch karna bhi hai?"

You know what happens? You stop caring about the car at the end, you are miserable somewhere on the inside. I right now don't care whether FIAT has started its journey or are beginning to end it. All I know is what happened to my case and car, and not with anyone else's. I honestly ran out of time in trying to maintain the car. For how long and how many times can you visit the workshop with a oft broken product? I have things to attend to in life, and can't be bothered to spend this much time and resources for a city car. For a 4x4 project, modifying a car and custom tuning it, sure enough but for everyday city use, I will now gladly skip any such product.

BTW I own a Palio 1.6 Sports since 2007 with ~50K on the odo. And till now nothing major works carried out.
Except a regular oil change and a clutch master/slave cylinder change @43K.

That doesn't necessarily mean, that everyone with a Palio 1.6 faced the same excellent scenario with their car. There could be nightmares too, and there could be jolly good scenarios too.I'll just reply with quoting myself from the thread. Hope that helps in understanding the underlying crux of everything.

In my four years of ownership, I dealt with a lot of workshops for the service of the car. I'd like to report that things have improved , since the split with Tata. The fuel of the Fiat Myth is that you are screwed as soon as you buy a Fiat. The brand seems to have conjured up a monstrous amount of malice and bad blood in the market due to what happened specifically with the Uno and Palio. The hate is amazing and is quite prejudiced. it may be justified in some cases, but I am sure there are horror stories with every brand.

I have noticed that people due to this prejudice, as soon as they are made to wait even for a day for a stock part , seems to ride shotgun to oblivion that "we are screwed, fiat sucks, what crap did i get into, and this company should just wash my feet and drink the water, where is the damn customer service" in a jiffy. It ain't that bad, after experiencing VW, BMW, Hyundai hands on, I can pretty much confirm it is almost the same everywhere. What distinguishes the experience is our preconceived notion of what is good and bad in life. But the experience although much improved in the last one year or so, is anything but great. It is , what it is, standard workshop affair, nothing special, nothing worse than any other brand. And that is if you have reasonable expectations.

P.S. There maybe cars with 1,50,000 on the ODO and none of the issues above. It all depends on one's own luck, and the car. FIAT wasn't that bad for me, just strictly average on the whole. The car though, shone through.

Since you are planning to buy a Punto, based on my interactions with a lot of owners and other members of the team, do carefully consider the cost of ownership and consider the resale value. The car is fine, the ASS is average and you will surely derive a lot of pleasure out of it.

I don't hate FIAT, but it is primarily for people who understand cars, know Mangesh, are aware of issues and what need to be done. For anyone who is a layman, and is a regular car buyer, you will be dead out of luck.

Let us consider a few things, regarding Mangesh & Co. When I bought the car , and that was squarely based on the team's feedback and threads, hype level and anticipation. Then there was a place called Rama Motors, Okhla. It was a fabled place, and quite approved by FIAT owners. I stay 40 kms from that place, yet I specifically bought the car from there to initiate a relationship. 2 years down the line, that place is no more, or maybe they just don't do FIAT no more. I don't know the current status, but it was quite a dampener. Because that was the only workshop with decent feedback.

Based on that , let us consider the larger issue here, what happens when Mangesh leaves for a career change? or relocates? or god forbids, dies off? (please don't get offended). See, all of us know him, because we are members here, but after spending a considerable time in workshops, I can attest that there are tons of people who don't know any such contact.

Why I stopped fighting so much , because I had a career to make, I didn't have time to run around getting cars fixed and getting the parent company involved. And that too, every 4th month. If it were a one off case, sure enough I would have ripped their clothes apart, but there is a limit to everyone's patience.

I can't imagine plight of those owners who are not active online, don't know jack and just bought a 'car'. When they face such issues, FIAT is not only losing one customer, but 25 prospective clients in his family circle.

I think its subjective experiences, Rama motors was hailed as King by the FIAT club or whatever it was called back then. I heard good stories aboutTechno, thus headed out here in the middle of nowhere. I think it depends on the kind of person your service advisor is , the kind of luck you have, and the nature of the problem.

See just because Harish had a terrible experience with Skoda, doesn't mean that all octavia owners hated their car. It is pure luck, with who gets hit with what. I am sure since my steering failed, it may not be the case that every Punto's steering pump is likely to fail.

Just to end this post on a light hearted note,
As a customer we understand there are niggles in initial batches, and there are issues. Do companies , who are unwilling to even give a rupee's discount on new products ever accept any niggles in the money given by customers?
Imagine a company saying ,
" Naya product tha, naya customer, phate puraane note de bhi gaya toh bhi theek hai"
Yet we gladly are always standing by the company, " Since the product was new this to be expected."

[amit_mechengg]

Oh my, Oh My !! Another Fiat thread, and no surprise we have a owner posting a true story and some people already jumping on to the bandwagon for bashing Fiat as usual.

Very sorry to read the owners plight here. But i know it must not have been good experience due to major reasons below.
1. 2009 initial batch model
2. Delhi - worst service centre in the history of TATA/FIAT

Had the car been in Pune he would have never sold his car. I agree to all his points. One should not need to call Mangesh or the CEO etc.
Well while speaking these names i can see the positive side that the top FIAT officials are very much reachable to the customers. I own a maruti , volkswagen and tata too and i dont even know whom i need to contact in case of issues - well i have gone through hell when it comes to maruti ownership.

Someone here said that the dynamics of the fiat cars are not good - sorry sir, either the definition of dynamics is wrong in the original dictionary or the one in your mind.
My Vento doesnt even come half close to the steering feedback, preciseness and the fun of my linea. Maruti - hyundai and other cars i wont even compare with FIAT dynamics- it would be criminal.

Features - Fiat cars were one of the first in segment to come with Foldable remote keys, Bluetooth calling - blue and me, Steering mounted controls , rear AC knee and foot, Auto climate control AC, and a state of art canbus system which gives you a message of this sort " Number plate bulb fused- please replace" " Rear Fog fused- please replace" " Left door open" " Boot Open"
Honda Maruti Hyundai - dint even know the definition of all the above till 2012.

On top of the above they still sell cars with shoddy thin tyres - Fiat doesnt cut cost on safety and dynamics.

What FIAT is today - After separating from TATA, they have jumped to altogether new heights in customer satisfaction. The costs of spares ( which were already low ) have been lowered more and the labor costs have gone so low that even the roadside mechanic will feel ashamed.
Oil Change - Rs.120, Imported Air filter - Rs.400 , Oil - 1600(Petronal Selenia - change every 15k) are just few examples.

Just check the price of Hyundai diesel air filter which is made in india.

All manufacturers depend on Authorised service centres and i have proofs of so many horror stories of each and every brand. The only thing is when the word FIAT comes on TBHP anywhere , people who dont own or have never owned or even driven a FIAT suddenly start having problem and start throwing cow dung.

[condor]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

On top of the above they still sell cars with shoddy thin tyres - Fiat doesnt cut cost on safety and dynamics.

What FIAT is today - After separating from TATA, they have jumped to altogether new heights in customer satisfaction. The costs of spares ( which were already low ) have been lowered more and the labor costs have gone so low that even the roadside mechanic will feel ashamed.

@Amit, I would see the 2nd point as a positive. Regarding the tyres, isnt that a limitation that can be overcome & hence set right ?

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by condor

@Amit, I would see the 2nd point as a positive. Regarding the tyres, isnt that a limitation that can be overcome & hence set right ?

+1 to your point above. But what i feel is manufacturers should give a right set of tyres right from the factory. They buy in bulk at very less cost. When a customer goes to a shop and sells his old tyre he looses a lot and has to pay huge amount to buy a new set of tyres.

95% of the people dont even change those punny tyres and ply on roads with the same OEM set for 40-50k kms. Imagine a crazy fast swift diesel with those punny tyres on non ABS models.

Some things are difficult to set right. My cousin who bought the fluidic verna after selling his swift curses the jumping jack bouncy ride on his car like anything. His mother complains of back pain in every long drive.
We are searching for monroe or other replacement shocks for the verna but without any success so far.

Dynamics is the exact opposite word of hyundai cars.

[condor]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

... i feel is manufacturers should give a right set of tyres right from the factory. They buy in bulk at very less cost.

But pretty much every manufacturer is guilty on that count. Apart from sub-par quality of the rubber, the width is also short. Anyone who has upgraded knows the difference a better tyre brings. IMO, while I am not happy with the additional expense of swapping the tyres, I still do it because it is worth it. It is not the only expense /cost that is on the higher side, and I just add this one also to my version of non-optimized cost/rates.

[Speed Pujari]

Originally Posted by chaudh2s

Do you mean that if that person in dzire would have been in a non-ABS/Airbags car his ankle fratures could have been prevented?
.

Thanks for the info chaudh2s. Apologies my message was confusing enough and thought over as Airbag/ABS. IIRC the dzire involved in that accident was a top end fully loaded one (ZDi).

My message was pointing on the dynamics of the car in an event of crash and safety provided by crumple zone to avoid injury by exerted inertia, and the quality of cocoon. I believe these matter more than the n number of Airbags, and these are the ones which saved those Palio occupant which collided with train.
IIRC Palio 1.2 did not have airbags, ABS or EBD.

[selvagp]

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

100k?! Can you scan and post the invoices here for everyone's benefit?

Originally Posted by smilenow

100+K? Like DRIV3R mentioned, would be really interested to know as to what the hell happened.


Just to end this post on a light hearted note,
As a customer we understand there are niggles in initial batches, and there are issues. Do companies , who are unwilling to even give a rupee's discount on new products ever accept any niggles in the money given by customers?
Imagine a company saying ,
" Naya product tha, naya customer, phate puraane note de bhi gaya toh bhi theek hai"
Yet we gladly are always standing by the company, " Since the product was new this to be expected."

Attached here are the invoices from my last two services. Apologies for the poor quality, they were scanned using mobile app.

the clutch slave cylinder replacement,
the battery failure within the first year,
the struts failure within the first year leading to all four tyres being torn out,
stranded on the middle of the road on the busiest hour,
stranded on no man's land on the dark night,
again structs failure
and again punctures
and again punctures en route to office on three consecutive days
The list might feel endless but we took it mostly upon ourselves as this being our first car and my bad luck
It also appears like the early owners really suffered more than others.
I still can't hate this machine. It's our little pride in someways.


PS: Note to Mods. Please delete if I have created any duplicate posts. My connection timed out several times while trying to post this reply.