[sidindica]

Excellent updates, shashi, on your golden goose. Subtle ideas and thoughts are all thats required to keep her running in the condition you have always desired for. Maintenance, time after time, will keep her looking timeless, time after time.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

1. There are floor caps to prevent water entry, but they aren't fully water proof. I wanted a tight seal, but without making any permanent modification, so I have used "windshield pasting black rubber sealant" around the caps and allowed time for curing just in the way the workshop people do for glass. 2. BLL850 is a a pre-90 model M800, right? 3. This is the same design of number plate which you had recommended me, looks simple, yet elegant! 4. Nagpur to Ranchi distance is about 850 odd kilometres. It took 17 hours including breaks. 5. I believe this is the grill you are having. Regards, Shashi

Dear Shashi - thanks, my reply is as follows:
1. Those are tooling holes, subsequently plugged. As you are taking good care of the floorboards, it's OK for you to use sealant in your car, for other cars, these holes are "supposed to be used" to drain out the water that the washing fraternity has a habit of spraying inside the car!
2. BLL850 is a 1987 model car. It has covered only 40300 kms in 29 years! . You are correct for the bonnet, I wish I knew. It came like this. I'll ask the lady owner.
3. Correct, the side black strips are not there, though.
4. Hahaha, I mistook Ranchi for Raipur! 1600 kms from Mumbai is too long, maybe we can meet when I pass through from Ranchi airport to go to "you know where"!
5. Yes, I have two such grilles. One is brand new, which I will put only after completing the full restoration. The other one I picked up off a scrapped car just one month back. This is it's life story. It was there on an 800 which had the worst corrosion that I have ever seen, the doors had actually fallen off. The roof had holes in it. It was parked unused for many years in a building compound in Shivaji Park, exactly next to the seashore, directly getting the sea spray. I literally pleaded with the owner and got the grille 10 minutes before the scrappers came. The car was taken away on a handcart. The top screws did not open, the metallic cross member just fell away. I had to keep it immersed in a bucket full of surf water for 3 days, just to clean the grime. The four bottom locators are broken, I am drilling holes and putting two M5*0.8 size nuts and bolts in their place to locate it in the bottom panel. BLL850 is in safe hibernation now in my house in Pune due to the rainy season. I'll fit it when I take it out.

I have ordered new bumpers. They look OK in the photograph, but all the mountings have deteriorated.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

BLL850 is a 1987 model car. It has covered only 40300 kms in 29 years! . You are correct for the bonnet, I wish I knew. It came like this. I'll ask the lady owner.

The car is in an awesome condition. It just needs a few originality touches and will be as good as new.
1. Chrome wheel hub caps
2. Rear emblems-Hindi Maruti on the left side and Maruti suzuki emblem on the right.
3. Type 1 ORVMS

. Hahaha, I mistook Ranchi for Raipur! 1600 kms from Mumbai is too long, maybe we can meet when I pass through from Ranchi airport to go to "you know where"!

No issues Sir. It'll be our privilege to meet you.

I have ordered new bumpers. They look OK in the photograph, but all the mountings have deteriorated.

If its only the mountings(those boat shaped plastic brackets which are screwed in the bumper) which have deteriorated, you can change them only as they are available separately. Costs 3 rupees a piece if I remember correctly for my T2 bumper, so should be in that range for T1 also.

Regards,
Shashi

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

The car is in an awesome condition. It just needs a few originality touches and will be as good as new. Chrome wheel hub caps / rear emblems in Hindi, Maruti on the left side and Maruti suzuki emblem on the right side / type 1 ORVMS. If its only the mountings (those boat shaped plastic brackets which are screwed in the bumper) which have deteriorated, you can change them only as they are available separately. Regards, Shashi

Dear Shashi - yes, I know about the chrome hub caps, I am looking to buy them, maybe I will have to stroll through Opera House one of these days! I had BLB6986 with me, it was my 1987 biscuit colored Maruti 800 Deluxe with Japanese leather upholstery in light grey color, factory fitted AC and music system with buttons to push, to select AM radio channels! I sold it in 2002 after using it for 1 lakh 88 thousand kilometres, everything original except tires, battery, life-determined parts like filters, plugs, contact breaker, lubricants and timing belt etc. In the year 2000, I had bought one set of COX stainless steel wheel caps from Alagendran Motor Stores in Coimbatore, as I worked there for some time on a new vehicle project, building and testing the prototypes. These wheel caps were (they still are) very unique, they were available only in Chennai and Coimbatore and they were fixed by two small screws in very nicely made stainless steel bracket, attached to two wheel studs and nuts. I had fitted them on BLB6986 and the car was looking very elegant with them. When I sold it, I gave it with the chrome hub caps. I had removed these wheel caps and I have kept them safely at home. I will fit them on BLL850 after restoration. I am not much of a stickler for emblems but if I get them, I will fit them. I know that the type 1 ORVM is slightly more elegant than the type 2. In BLB6986, I had removed both the ORVMs and fitted the LH door inner triangular trim outside the RH door. I don't use ORVMs as I have driven Fiat 1100s all my life, for me the triangular piece is better, it can't be broken or stolen. The bumpers have ugly screws sticking out of their sides, I know which 3 rupees small pieces you refer to, I have them lying around in my drawer in any case, amongst the many remnants of BLB6986.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[sidindica]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Shashi - I had BLB6986 with me, it was my 1987 biscuit colored Maruti 800 Deluxe with Japanese leather upholstery in light grey color, factory fitted AC and music system with buttons to push, to select AM radio channels!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Dear Sir

My random search just landed me at this link which has amazing pics of that type of Sb308

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...80-dx-109.html

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Shashi

I am not much of a stickler for emblems but if I get them, I will fit them.

I do have many stickers with me. I had bought them for my friend's T1(pics in the last page). You can have them whenever you wish. I am just a PM away.

The bumpers have ugly screws sticking out of their sides, I know which 3 rupees small pieces you refer to, I have them lying around in my drawer in any case, amongst the many remnants of BLB6986.

Then its best to change the bumpers to new MGP ones, they cost approximately Rs. 2,000 for both sides.

Originally Posted by sidindica

Dear Sir

My random search just landed me at this link which has amazing pics of that type of Sb308

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...80-dx-109.html

Thanks!!

This Maruti is one of the cleanest and the most original SB308 I have seen till date. It'll be infact our benchmark when we restore that white T1 next year.

Regards,
Shashi


A Sad Update

We are in the middle of a 2,500 km trip, and the speedo develops a fault, again!!. The needle is getting stuck randomly at 20 and 40 mark.

[Leoshashi]

Battery woes, this time Amaron goes down!!

After being extremely satisfied with Exide, I decided to try out something different this time. Went for Amaron based on recommendations, and also on my personal experience with my bike.

Bought Amaron FLO 35Ah battery on 29th September, 2015 and today, it suddenly died on me, without showing any prior signs of weakness. The weird thing is, I was in the middle of a trip when this happened, and despite running the car for more than 450kms, the battery isn't storing the charge. After reaching Ranchi, got the alternator inspected by my MASS, and they too declared the battery to be the culprit.

Have lodged a complaint, but I am pretty disappointed with the life of this battery. Does anyone have any experience regarding the warranty replacement procedure of Amaron??


Terminal voltage when battery is left idle


Used an inverter battery(12.8V) to start the car


Warranty card



Regards,
Shashi

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Bought Amaron FLO 35Ah battery on 29th September, 2015 and today, it suddenly died on me, without showing any prior signs of weakness. Got the alternator inspected by my MASS, and they too declared the battery to be the culprit. Regards, Shashi

Dear Shashi - I have no reason to disagree with your conclusion that the battery is bad, but please don't jump to this conclusion. I had experienced the same issue in my uncle's Maruti 800 MH12P1655, by chance with a new battery, which was Exide. In the Maruti 800, the alternator specified is Lucas TVS SA15. It's output matches the original Nippondenso requirement as per drawing. The problem is not with the alternator (that's why your person said it is OK) and the problem "may not be" with the battery (but it will indicate so). In order to facilitate production, quick fix connectors are used at many locations in the wiring harness, and there is nothing wrong in using them. One such connector is there in the charging circuit near the alternator output terminal. This connector meets JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) and it works, as lakhs of Maruti 800 cars are running out there! However, in our typical "Indian Conditions" of dusty atmosphere coupled with high temperature and varying humidity, in some cars, the lucar terminals inside the connector get "sulphated". This increases the electrical resistance in the circuit and in extreme cases, this completely burns out the terminal, the connectors get fused to the plastic insulation. This is what had happened to MH12P1655. I was on the highway. I just bypassed the connector, push started the car and continued my journey. The battery regained charge within 15 minutes and then lasted for its full life of 4 years. Also check the electrical resistance of the fusible link attached to the positive terminal at the battery location. Acceptance criteria is 0.1v. Please check all this on your car. .

Still if the battery is in any case dead due to its internal quality issue, you will have to replace it.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Shashi - I have no reason to disagree with your conclusion that the battery is bad, but please don't jump to this conclusion.

Thanks a lot Sir for your valuable advice.

In the Maruti 800, the alternator specified is Lucas TVS SA15. It's output matches the original Nippondenso requirement as per drawing.

My car has a Denso branded alternator. I clicked this pic when my SA had removed bumper to check the alternator terminals. Kindly have a look.

The problem is not with the alternator (that's why your person said it is OK) and the problem "may not be" with the battery (but it will indicate so). In order to facilitate production, quick fix connectors are used at many locations in the wiring harness, and there is nothing wrong in using them. One such connector is there in the charging circuit near the alternator output terminal. This connector meets JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) and it works, as lakhs of Maruti 800 cars are running out there! However, in our typical "Indian Conditions" of dusty atmosphere coupled with high temperature and varying humidity, in some cars, the lucar terminals inside the connector get "sulphated". This increases the electrical resistance in the circuit and in extreme cases, this completely burns out the terminal, the connectors get fused to the plastic insulation.

When I complained of the weak battery, my SA checked these things-
1. Output voltage at the terminals, at various rpm ranges.
2. My Fusible link was changed last year, so he ignored it.
3. He then asked a mechanic to remove the bumper, and fiddled with the alternator connector pins. I don't remember seeing any major dust or oxidation in it, still he blowed in it and applied WD40 and then some electrical grease in it.
4. After all these, he used a Bosch battery tester which measured some parameters of the battery, and the tester displayed result as weak.

He checked these terminals.


I don't expect connectors to get oxidised in my car, as I have used electrical grease on almost all connectors I could find(including the indicator ones). Earlier I have suffered bad connections due to rusting of terminals and oxidation(common in old cars), hence this precaution.

After all these things, he asked me to claim warranty for the battery. Based on your recommendation, I will take my car to him and get the fusible link checked again.

Noticed a weird thing today- I measured the terminal voltage of the battery and it showed 11.4V. I thought the car won't start, still it started normally, as if nothing had happened. I thought that a normal battery should have more than 12V atleast for the car to start. Am I missing something here??

Regards,
Shashi

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

My SA fiddled with the alternator connector pins. He checked these terminals. Regards, Shashi

Dear Shashi - the red cap terminal is the main output from the alternator, having an M6 fastener. The blue cap terminal carries the excitation current connectors L and IG, L means charging system light and IG means ignition. These are Lucar terminals. These terminals are a part of the pigtail wiring harness which is part of the engine assembly as supplied to the TCF (trim chassis final) line during manufacturing. This thingy should be around 200mm long. As you have mentioned that these terminals are fine, it's OK, but remove them and physically clean them with some sandpaper, you lose nothing by doing so. The other end of this wiring harness has the connector which I have mentioned. It must be hidden behind the alternator, please check it out. The car will start with low battery voltage also, as the starter motor needs a spike for a millisecond only, then the operating current settles down.

I have data on the Nippondenso alternator issues in the 800 (), I'll revert shortly on whether you should change to the SA15 or not, in your case the thing has run for 3 lakh kilometers. Be satisfied with the smiley for now!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Shashi

Let me tell you something about the "foam"! The fan pulls air through the radiator. The unit of measurement is mass flow in cubic meters per second. Reverse flow of air is not good as it creates eddies. Due to the micro-pressure differential in this area, reverse flow tends to take place. The foam is the member which blocks the path of reverse flow. In TD test (in R&D, we call it temperature difference or delta-T) maximum effectiveness on TD due to eddies prevention is around 2 degrees.

After your enlightening post about the foam, I realised its importance. Though most of them were intact, the ones under the bonnet area and on the left side of radiator were somewhat damaged by rodents.

Thanks to Maruti, I got its part number, and was surprised that such an insignificant part(for aam junta) is still in production. No wonder they are trusted by millions in India.

Removed the remnants of the old foam completely, and pasted the new foam.

Foam(packing) on the hood

Foam near the radiator

Part numbers


Update on the Alternator/Battery issue- I got my car inspected by MASS on all the points which you had recommended. They cleaned the alternator leads again, and although things improved after that, my SA wasn't satisfied with the results. He has asked me to visit again on Monday, when he will take the call whether an alternator overhaul/change is needed or not. He has declared the car fit for driving for the time being, and since I have an exam tomorrow, he asked me to postpone the extensive checkup/overhaul for Monday.

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Shashi
I have data on the Nippondenso alternator issues in the 800 (), I'll revert shortly on whether you should change to the SA15 or not, in your case the thing has run for 3 lakh kilometers. Be satisfied with the smiley for now!

Eagerly awaiting for your advice on this.



Update regarding child locks-As I have mentioned on page 1, that I have added Child locks on rear doors from the export model, a warning label was pending. I like things just in the way they come from factory. Hence added it today.



Regards,
Shashi

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Update on the alternator / battery issue, I got my car inspected by MASS on all the points which you had recommended. They cleaned the alternator leads again, and although things improved after that, my SA wasn't satisfied with the results. He has asked me to visit again on Monday, when he will take the call whether an alternator overhaul/change is needed or not. Eagerly awaiting for your advice on this. Regards, Shashi

Dear Shashi - you have still not answered my question. You are giving me "normal customer" feedback! . You must hit the root cause. Did you locate the terminal at the other end of the wiring connections coming out of the alternator? If yes, what is the result and if no, please locate and see it, then tell me the result. If sulphating is there, remove the connector and connect the wires directly. My take on the alternator is very simple, Nippondenso parts are very costly and original parts are not easily available. Even if you overhaul the alternator, it will cost you nothing less than 90% cost of a new Lucas SA15. So you must replace the alternator instead of wasting your time. 3 lakh kilometres life is good enough.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

In order to facilitate production, quick fix connectors are used at many locations in the wiring harness, and there is nothing wrong in using them. One such connector is there in the charging circuit near the alternator output terminal. This connector meets JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) and it works, as lakhs of Maruti 800 cars are running out there! However, in our typical "Indian Conditions" of dusty atmosphere coupled with high temperature and varying humidity, in some cars, the lucar terminals inside the connector get "sulphated". This increases the electrical resistance in the circuit and in extreme cases, this completely burns out the terminal, the connectors get fused to the plastic insulation.

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

These terminals are a part of the pigtail wiring harness which is part of the engine assembly as supplied to the TCF (trim chassis final) line during manufacturing. This thingy should be around 200mm long.

Spot on!! That wire was exactly 20cm long. Helped me reach the connector you were mentioning.

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Shashi - you have still not answered my question. You are giving me "normal customer" feedback! . You must hit the root cause.

Extremely sorry Sir for the layman-like reply. Sorry for disappointing you.

Did you locate the terminal at the other end of the wiring connections coming out of the alternator? If yes, what is the result and if no, please locate and see it, then tell me the result.

Honestly speaking, I hadn't checked this point till today. After your post came, I opened the bumper again, and traced the output wire, with a mental target set for 200mm as advised by you. Found the 1st connector behind RH headlamps.

Hunting begins


Spotted the wire behind right HL


I believe you were suggesting about these two connectors

If sulphating is there, remove the connector and connect the wires directly.

No sulphating or any other oxidation was found at any connector- was as good as new. Hence cleaned them and installed them back again and also applied some electrical grease so that any oxidation in future is prevented.

No Sulphating

My take on the alternator is very simple, Nippondenso parts are very costly and original parts are not easily available. Even if you overhaul the alternator, it will cost you nothing less than 90% cost of a new Lucas SA15. So you must replace the alternator instead of wasting your time. 3 lakh kilometres life is good enough.

Exactly!! Just for the record, here are the prices quoted by my MASS for the alternators.

1. New Denso Alternator 50A,12V- Rs.11,245/-
2. New Lucas Alternator 50A,12V- Rs.5,786/-

3. Maximum Cost of overhauling Denso- Rs. 7,200 approx.
4. Maximum cost of overhauling Lucas- Rs. 3,500 approx.

All connections made, with electrical grease to prevent oxidation


After convincing myself that all connectors are clean, I paid a visit to my MASS. They checked all parameters, and came to a conclusion that my current battery is bad, and that my alternator is perfect.

5641 at MASS


Voltage values with my current battery
1. At idle(No load)- 13.4V
2. At idle with stock headlamps ON- 12.9V
3. At 2500rpm(No Load)- 13.8V[This is the maximum its going with my battery connected]

Voltage values with another known good battery
1. At idle(No load)- 13.6V
2. At idle(HL ON)- 13.2V
3. At 2500rpm(No load)-14.4V

Battery charge with car turned off-Apologies for bad quality picture

Voltage with car at 2500rpm[No Load]


I am relieved that its not the alternator I have to worry about.!!

Regards,
Shashi

[Leoshashi]

Update- Amaron replaced the faulty battery with a brand new one yesterday, and I then checked the charging myself. Here are the results post replacement of battery:

1. Charging Voltage at idle(No load)-13.8V
2. Charging Voltage at idle with HL on-13.65V

3. Charging Voltage at 2000rpm(No load)-14.52V
4. Charging Voltage at 2000rpm with HL on-14.38V

I believe everything is fine now. As they say, every cloud has a silver lining, this battery episode made me check my alternator in perhaps the most comprehensive way.

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Shashi

Special thanks to Dhabar Sir who took pain to guide me wherever I was going wrong. Its always awesome to interact with you, Sir. My 800 is lucky to have a mentor like you.

Next problem to sort out- As I had mentioned a few posts back that the speedometer has developed a fault, where it got stuck at 20 and 40kmph marks. I opened the speedometer and tried to fix it myself. Although I have managed to fix the speedometer to perfection, the odometer is probably screwed now. It moves too slowly and for a distance of 2km, it shows just 700m. I'll take a detailed look into it this Sunday, and will try to fix it. If not, I guess I will have to buy a new speedo.

Regards,
Shashi

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Amaron replaced the faulty battery with a brand new one yesterday. I believe everything is fine now. The odometer moves too slowly and for a distance of 2km, it shows just 700m. Regards,
Shashi

Dear Shashi - good. It's not over yet. Now you must find out the exact root cause of what went wrong inside the battery. It will not be an easy task because you will have to deal with basically decent human beings, who will by default give you political answers! (). I don't blame them, in "our" way of working, it is like this only! Still go for it, best-to-best you will learn and worst-to-worst you will lose nothing. Tell me also what you learn, I've not really probed the inner construction of a battery, time to see the "party's proposal drawing" I guess! .

For speedometer, it is a very delicate part. The forces required to assemble it have to be very closely controlled and monitored. Work on it and learn, all the best, but if it doesn't work, be prepared to change the whole thing and be done with it.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar