[sterlingsilver]

Dear Team BHP,

There are many threads and posts about buying pre-owned luxury cars at XX prices. I have a specific query / requirement and hence have started this thread.

Iam reaching out for some much needed advice and help on buying a used German car. Iam completely clueless about buying and owning pre-owned cars, especially the German ones, what to look for, and Iam really unsure of what am I getting into!! This is my first pre-owned purchase.

My background:
Iam 39 now and I run a small business of my own in Chennai. I do not know anyone else who can guide me on this topic, nor do I have anyone in my family/friends/FNG’s who can help.

My mother, 68, is a single parent who, without any support, raised us well, built our family to be financially comfortable all by herself, without any exceptional education. She was a homemaker all her life and at 42, she had to start her own, small, real estate company from scratch to survive. She is retired now. She always wished for us to grow well enough to have a Mercedes or a BMW in our driveway someday. (That was probably the sign that we too have “arrived” )

An MB or BMW in our garage was never achieved, partly due to our conservative buying habits, inability to set aside funds for such an expensive purchase (for a new car) and partly for being who we are - We were always wary about spending more than Rupees 15 Lakhs for an automobile!! As an asset class, we really don’t believe in spending more than Rs 15-20 Lakhs for an automobile any day! We currently own a 2011 Innova 7 seater V variant, a 2015 Elite i20 diesel Asta variant and my wife owns a 2018 Suzuki Baleno Petrol Zeta Variant. We have owned a Daewoo Cielo, a Chevy Optra 1.8LT’s in the past.

After reading GTO’s BMW 530D F30 review and the value proposition pre owned cars offer, I had decided that I really wanted to bring home a Mercedes or a BMW, at least pre owned, and gift it to my mother, let her have her moment and thank her for all that she has done.

Since I know very little about cars and pre-owned ones in particular, I had decided to set the following boundaries after reading various TBHP forums:

1. Will buy one directly from an individual seller or from MB/ BMW dealerships. Will not buy from a dealer. First Owner Cars Only.

2. If its BMW: 5 Series (F10 model). If its Mercedes: C class (w205 model), E Class (W213 model) only.

3. Mercedes W212 models were aplenty, but my mother did not like the car.

4. Car to be in Tamilnadu / Chennai.

I found that many cars fitting the above criteria are predominantly in Mumbai / Maharashtra or the ones in Chennai / Tamilnadu are so horribly expensive for the same kms. I had to expand the scope of my search to other locations.

On a recent online search I found a 2012 BMW 530d (F10 model, first owner, car done 75000 kms, with the BMW dealer in Mumbai. MH04 registered. The BMW dealer claims all services were done in BMW Service Centers and service records are intact. The car’s insurance just expired, but the car’s extended service pack is valid till 2022. The asking price was Rs 18 Lakhs, negotiable.

Specific to this car:

1. Guys, is this a good deal / right price? Upto how much can I negotiate?

2. The car is already 8 years old on date. Is this a prudent decision to go for such an old car? Or as a rule, should I look at nothing beyond XX years / XXX kms on the odo?

3. Iam concerned about the 75k kms odo reading. Is it wise to go in for a luxury car with so many kms on the odo or would you like me to stay away at all costs?

4. Iam planning to keep the car for 5- 8 years minimum. With the car already run 75k, what can I expect to be replaced in the coming years under normal usage? How much would these replacements, repairs and services cost?

5. What about the costs of tires, batteries etc going forward?

6. How much would a regular service cost?

7. Can I take the BMW dealer's word on the service records? How to check them? What do I look for in them as red alerts? What more do I need to check about the car with the dealer?

8. Is it worth the hassle to get the car to Chennai and re-register it?

9. On GTO’s F10 review thread, he had mentioned that his 530d was earlier company owned (Cadbury) and he bought it in his company’s name to save taxes. How so? How does it matter on the ownership status (individual/company) of the earlier owner? How does a car getting transferred from a company name to another company save taxes?

10. Can I extend the warranty / service pack offered by BMW?

11. I know owning a pre-owned luxury car is not difficult. But maintaining one is. Even worse are sudden failure of parts. In this case, what all can go wrong, and what would be my worst case scenario of maintenance costs every year?

With the Covid lockdown in Chennai getting stricter, Iam unable to come to Mumbai to inspect the car. The dealer is asking me to take his word, on trust. I find that scary. How do I take this forward? I have no one in Mumbai to help.

Can you please guide me with some advice to the above points and also help me in any way you can to take this forward? I do not know whom to ask and Iam reaching out to you for your help as an informed team of enthusiasts.

Thank you

[McLaren Rulez]

With that budget and your model requirements, you will be have to compromise. There is lots to be said about maintenance costs, reliability, how to buy, out-of-state vs in-state, negotiations, inspections etc. but before you go into that rabbit hole, ask yourself some fundamental questions:

1) Have you considered the fact that with your 15-20L budget, you simply aren't ready financially?

2) Even if you are ready to increase the budget and/or compromise in other areas, are you sure that you need a E Class/5 Series to show that you have "arrived"?

[Tojo_GotBhp]

Originally Posted by sterlingsilver

Dear
Can you please guide me with some advice to the above points and also help me in any way you can to take this forward?
Thank you

First things first, Welcome to Team-BHP sterlingsilver!

1. AFAIK, BMW offers BSI(Service Package) and extended warranty upto 10 years/200K Kms. The warranty and service packs are all linked to the vehicle and has nothing to do with the owner. Since the car in discussion is 8 year old and naturally out of standard warranty, do call a BMW service center and confirm regarding the feasibility of purchasing extended warranty at this age of car.

2. Though F10 is regarded to be largely reliable, you've to remember that it's a German machine with lots of electronics. If at all anything fails, finding a competent mechanic to properly diagnose the issue will be a headache. Yes, there is BMW service centres but you can't completely remove the risk appetite involved.

3. It's a used car and NEVER proceed with word of mouth. NEVER. Ask the dealer to share pics of the service records. Things to check- any accident history, wether the car has adhered to the service intervals. Service records will also reveal details like part replacement(under warranty or otherwise). Any unusual or frequent replacement can point to if the car is problematic in nature.

4. When purchased under the name of a buisness firm it is seen as an expense to the buisness and the purchase value comes under the liability in balance sheet. You will save tax paid to Govt as this liability is deducted from assets of balance sheet.
I might be wrong here. Fellow BHPians can confirm.

5. Regarding re-registration of the car in Chennai- you'll have to pay road tax calculated as 15℅ of invoice value(reduced pro rata based on car age) and then collect the refund from previous RTO for the remaining amount(this part can take long).

6. It's very risky to confirm the deal without seeing the car in person. It's best to check around for better deals in Chennai.

I hope that you've gone through the thread in Team-BHP on buying a used car. If not, here's the link- https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/buyin...car-india.html (ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India)


Keep revvin'
Tojo Tonny.

[KMT]

Please buy an unseen car 'bargain' only when its a 'toy'(timepass purchase).

You will get a newer C or 3series in TN in your budget.
It will be smaller and easier to use. Buy a TN car if you can help it.An insurance claim with an out of state car can be an issue at times.

Older German cars are so cheap because there is a potential for BIG bills.

Please remember an older german car will be your posh hobby car, you will need another daily beater.

Take your time, the hunt is half the fun.

[moralfibre]

My ₹0.02/- advice would be to avoid this approach. If already on a budget, run far away from any German car. You are taking a bet on odds that tilt more towards unreliability beyond a certain time of usage.

For 15-20L you'd end up with a high mileage car if you are looking at the 5-series, E-class or the A6. At that odo, you are staring at potential suspension, tyres, other mechanical wear and tear repairs. The sticker price might seem attractive but getting the car in top shape might bleed your wallet heavily.

Repairs aren't cheap and the most likely outcome would be to abandon the car due to cost being higher than the value of the car.

Should you still wish to continue, a low mileage 3-series, C-Class or A4 might well fit in your range. But, do ascertain the condition thoroughly before signing on the dotted line.

Lastly, do look for TN registered cars since transferring an out of state registered car is a hassle and involves paying the road tax all over again.

[Sanidhya mukund]

One really important point that you have to consider is that these cars age much faster in Indian driving conditions. You would want to purchase a Merc or a BMW for the experience, but a high mileage car that is almost a decade old is more likely to become a huge liability. It would most probably be pretty worn out and would not be able to deliver that 'luxury experience' for which people buy these cars.
And since you are in Tamil Nadu, there are chances of ending up with a flood affected car, so keep that in mind as well.

But I do understand the status symbol part, so here's what I would suggest:

With that budget, it would be difficult to find a low mileage 5 series or E-class. You should instead look for a 2016 or later Audi A3 or mercedes CLA. Since you basically want to buy a premium car as a status symbol, the stylish CLA, which is a real head turner seems like a great option. You would get a much newer car, one that you can actually enjoy.

EDIT: also, since you say that the car will a gift to your mother, then the reliability is also a really important factor. In my 6 years of ownership, my car has had 4 breakdowns( ABS issues, battery issues), despite having run just 24k Kms.

Another thing that I'd like to mention is that these cars are very easy to total. A friend of mine had bought a brand new BMW X1 back in 2012. Recently, he had a head on collision with a two wheeler, and the car looked very repairable. But since the car had depreciated so much, and the cost of parts was so high, that his beloved car was totalled!

[hema4saran]

Originally Posted by sterlingsilver

With the Covid lockdown in Chennai getting stricter, Iam unable to come to Mumbai to inspect the car. The dealer is asking me to take his word, on trust. I find that scary. How do I take this forward? I have no one in Mumbai to help.
Thank you

Don't spend money on a car something which you have never seen. But in case if you really want a BMW or Mercedes, look into the areas with in TN using your friends/acquaintance/business circle. You can find industrialists owned examples in Coimbatore/Tiruppur area as well.

While I respect your wish to gift something for your mom, I would expect you to be little sensible as well. There is nothing called a cheap German car. Even if you see a car within your budget, you need to set aside atleast 5 lakhs for unexpected repairs of the car. Also don't settle for 3 series or C class as a gift to your mom. She'll feel uncomfortable on the rear seat after she got used to the space and comfort of the Innova.

[vigsom]

Your Mom would have mentioned a Merc or BMW not because she wished you own a car only from one of those two brands but because she'd want you be "seen".

That said, Chennai isn't a great city to drive around in, and from my personal experience of having driven many large cars through even crowded streets like Ramakrishnapuram in W.Mambalam, I'd say your best bet is either a 2007 Accord AT or a 2009-11 Camry, AT preferably.

Both these cars have decent street presence and are reliable, provided they've been kept well. You'll save on capital too.

The 2008 and later Accords, although better looking, have low life leather upholstery

Stay away from German cars; you'll lose your concentration on your business if you own one.

[rnair]

Hi... I would say go for it. A lot of us will be able to 'afford' one only when we are too old for it. So a used one is the best bet. There are plenty of FNGs in Chennai who can look after the service of the car at a fraction of the cost. But as the guys here mentioned, make sure you have a look at the car before you buy. You cant buy a car until you fall in love with it. And lastly buy it from in and around TN. Preferably Chennai, Coimbatore or Tirupur. Re-registration is a big hassle. and lastly keep a lac aside every year for exigencies.... This is purely your luck!
Do try the BMW dealership. Also I would encourage you to look at certain reputed used car dealers in Chennai. When you can afford to buy a car from Mumbai without checking it out, I think you can very well take this chance.... All the best👍

[jkrishnakj]

I shall be watching this thread for sure. I am almost on the verge of diving in to the luxury segment after several professional years behind me and the feeling of ' I can now own one' slowly sinking in.

Did you check out the Kerala used car market ? You can potentially land a good one with lesser mileage from Kerala. The hassles of changing registration is anyways something you are now mentally ready for (given the current one you are pursuing is a MH one ). Like others suggested , besides hunting for something in TN ( Pollachi, Tiruppur , Coimbatore areas ), I will recommend that you please do some search for KL cars too.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by sterlingsilver

1. Will buy one directly from an individual seller or from MB/ BMW dealerships. Will not buy from a dealer. First Owner Cars Only.

Sounds ok, but some two owner cars are due to company to individual transfer so dont rule that out.

2. If its BMW: 5 Series (F10 model). If its Mercedes: C class (w205 model), E Class (W213 model) only.

For your budget, it will have high miles. Mercs might be out of your budget. Again, high miles might not be an issue if the car has been used for long journeys most of the time

3. Mercedes W212 models were aplenty, but my mother did not like the car.

That would be the most sensible within your budget

4. Car to be in Tamilnadu / Chennai.

I found that many cars fitting the above criteria are predominantly in Mumbai / Maharashtra or the ones in Chennai / Tamilnadu are so horribly expensive for the same kms. I had to expand the scope of my search to other locations.

Have you tried showing the money. Prices might seem high, try finding a suitable car, benchmark with a Mumbai priced similar car and add what the long term tax would be to arrive at a price

On a recent online search I found a 2012 BMW 530d (F10 model, first owner, car done 75000 kms, with the BMW dealer in Mumbai. MH04 registered. The BMW dealer claims all services were done in BMW Service Centers and service records are intact. The car’s insurance just expired, but the car’s extended service pack is valid till 2022. The asking price was Rs 18 Lakhs, negotiable.

Specific to this car:

1. Guys, is this a good deal / right price? Upto how much can I negotiate?

2. The car is already 8 years old on date. Is this a prudent decision to go for such an old car? Or as a rule, should I look at nothing beyond XX years / XXX kms on the odo?

3. Iam concerned about the 75k kms odo reading. Is it wise to go in for a luxury car with so many kms on the odo or would you like me to stay away at all costs?

4. Iam planning to keep the car for 5- 8 years minimum. With the car already run 75k, what can I expect to be replaced in the coming years under normal usage? How much would these replacements, repairs and services cost?

It all depends on how the car has been used. Being a BMW - expect
Turbo overhaul
Battery change 30k+
Suspension
Tyres - 80k
EGR if you are unlucky

I see Rs 2.5 Lakhs in there but it is a lot cheaper that buying new but demands on your time

5. What about the costs of tires, batteries etc going forward?

Approx costs stated above

6. How much would a regular service cost?

How long is a piece of string? Find an good independent in Chennai before you go for the plunge

7. Can I take the BMW dealer's word on the service records? How to check them? What do I look for in them as red alerts? What more do I need to check about the car with the dealer?

You would need to take the car there and pay Rs 10000 for an inspection if I am correct or try and view the service history using the key

8. Is it worth the hassle to get the car to Chennai and re-register it?

• You need to get car transfer of ownership locally done and pay the tax. Expect mismatch between actual tax and tax notified.
• You need to get car inspected by RTO
• You need to get the NOC which all depends on the owner or dealers ability to get this done and your trust in them

9. On GTO’s F10 review thread, he had mentioned that his 530d was earlier company owned (Cadbury) and he bought it in his company’s name to save taxes. How so? How does it matter on the ownership status (individual/company) of the earlier owner? How does a car getting transferred from a company name to another company save taxes?

Simple, Cadbury's owned it, user must have left the company and it became surplus and GTO must have bought it via his company.

10. Can I extend the warranty / service pack offered by BMW?

You need to ask this to BMW

11. I know owning a pre-owned luxury car is not difficult. But maintaining one is. Even worse are sudden failure of parts. In this case, what all can go wrong, and what would be my worst case scenario of maintenance costs every year?

Suspension
Turbo
Cooling system
Maybe timing chain

With the Covid lockdown in Chennai getting stricter, Iam unable to come to Mumbai to inspect the car. The dealer is asking me to take his word, on trust. I find that scary. How do I take this forward? I have no one in Mumbai to help.

Don't, I have been there! I got a friend of mine to look at a car, I bought on his word. Car was okay but my instinct told be that I would not have bought it. Your instinct + a known friend would be the best bet

Like I mentioned earlier. Find out the original ex-showroom cost of what you might want to buy, compute the LTT that you might need to pay up for. That will give you a target price.

Look at local cars and see what the flexibility in pricing. 10% of the target price might be okay. Being TN where most cars are maintained systematically and driven on good roads, look towards Coimbatore, Trichy and Salem where some good cars exist.

[asit.kulkarni93]

I know you are keen on the badge but my honest advice would be to look for a TN registered Škoda Superb or a Camry Hybrid. You will get newer cars in your budget and these will make you feel like you have arrived. These are comfortable, pretty fast and luxurious too.

You can buy a 10 year old Mercedes and it won’t be an issue unless You know what you are getting into. There can be some minor and major issues which a competent FNG should be able to work on. Rest these modern Mercs are workhorses. With BMWs you have to take certain care and if you really want your mom comfortable, avoid getting them. Look for a nice facelift Superb diesel or Camry Hybrid(pre FL) and you will be good to go for another 8-10 years.

[Geo_Ipe]

Originally Posted by sterlingsilver

1. Will buy one directly from an individual seller or from MB/ BMW dealerships. Will not buy from a dealer. First Owner Cars Only.

2. If its BMW: 5 Series (F10 model). If its Mercedes: C class (w205 model), E Class (W213 model) only.

3. Mercedes W212 models were aplenty, but my mother did not like the car.

Apologies if I'm being blunt, but your criteria are too stringent. 15-20 L for a W213 E Class is too less. The model debuted in 2016 if I'm not mistaken, which makes the earliest examples 4 years old. You may look for C Classes, or the older F 10 5 Series.

Do not forget that even if the car comes cheap, service costs are going to be similar to 75L+ MBs & BMWs. Trusting FNGs with these complicated cars should be done with caution, unless you know the garage. and owner previously.

Why don't you look at the earlier W124 E Class? Much simpler mechanically, cheaper to own and more importantly maintain and looks classier than the later Mercs in my opinion! Check out this thread:
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...lass-w124.html (Pre-worshipped car of the week : Used Mercedes E-Class W124)

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by sterlingsilver

After reading GTO’s BMW 530D F30 review and the value proposition pre owned cars offer, I had decided that I really wanted to bring home a Mercedes or a BMW, at least pre owned, and gift it to my mother, let her have her moment and thank her for all that she has done.

Why don't you consider something like the X1? Elderly people might find it difficult to get in and out of these low slung sedans. An X1 on the other hand may be more comfortable in that regard and also since it's a more affordable car, you may be able to find multiple options in the used car market that fall into your price range and yet are not very old. The higher GC will also help avoid any engine damage due to water-logging etc.

Iam concerned about the 75k kms odo reading. Is it wise to go in for a luxury car with so many kms on the odo or would you like me to stay away at all costs?

To be honest, older the car, more the expenses. For a car that has covered 75k kms on our roads, more than malfunctioning components, you need to worry about regular parts needing replacement like shockers etc. BMWs are quite reliable and touchwood my 3 series has covered 70k kms and hasn't required any untoward replacement apart from one shocker. This alone costed me 40k (although in my case it was covered under extended warranty). So what I am trying to say is, regular servicing might turn out to be quite expensive due to these parts needing replacement after a certain age. And these are NOT covered under your BSI pack. Also there wouldn't be any warranty on the car now. Only your regular engine oil replacement and brake pads/discs would be covered under the BSI plan.

What about the costs of tires, batteries etc going forward?

Tyre prices you can easily check online. It should be around 12-15k per tyre depending on brand etc.

Battery replacement costs approx. 30k.

How much would a regular service cost?

Regular engine oil service with no other changes should set you back by approx. 20-30k including oil and labour charges. But this would be covered under BSI if you choose to go ahead with the car mentioned above.

Can I take the BMW dealer's word on the service records? How to check them? What do I look for in them as red alerts? What more do I need to check about the car with the dealer?

I think the dealer would be able to provide you a detailed service history record if you are buying it from them.

Is it worth the hassle to get the car to Chennai and re-register it?

My answer is NO, it isn't worth the hassle. After paying the road tax and other costs, the price should fall in the same category of TN registered cars, if not more.

Can I extend the warranty / service pack offered by BMW?

Warranty cannot be extended beyond 6 years. The service pack is available for maximum of 10 years/2L kms.

To summarise, it is important to be aware of what you are getting into. Expecting a service cost of 10-15k for these cars is going to make your ownership experience sour. Part replacements can be very costly, but that depends on the condition of your car. Since this car is covered by BSI, I would assume that the owner was an enthusiasts and would have taken care of his car. Nevertheless, I would keep aside a rough figure of 50k-1L for any untoward repair costs. Also you need to keep in mind that a 5 series would be costlier to maintain than a 3 series/X1.

Originally Posted by Tojo_GotBhp

1. AFAIK, BMW offers BSI(Service Package) and extended warranty upto 10 years/200K Kms. Since the car in discussion is 8 year old and naturally out of standard warranty, do call a BMW service center and confirm regarding the feasibility of purchasing extended warranty at this age of car.

Warranty cannot be extended beyond 6 years. The service pack is available for maximum of 10 years/2L kms.

[androdev]

Don't complicate life. You seem to be overly concerned about lower purchase price - terrible approach. Keep price as the last thing to influence your decision.

A.Good car+low price > B.Good car+high price > C.Bad car+low price > D.Bad car+high price

C is a trap. A doesn't exist. C looks like A. Aim for B.

1. Look for TN cars that you can inspect in person and have access to complete paperwork (including detailed service history). The owner should introduce you to the service manager at the dealer and facilitate full review of service history. Most owners who maintain their cars take pride in showing you service history and how well they have maintained it.

2. Look for lower mileage. Ignore age of the car.

3. Read up about the specific models you are planning to buy. Internet will be full of owner complaints related to obvious problems. Typically face-lift models are better as they include lot of fixes and improvements and the platform is more mature and stable by then.

4. Plan and be prepared for best and worst case scenarios. I feel you should not consider E-class if you don't have a stand-by budget of 10L to deal with a potential worst-case scenario. In fact, this is the economic principle behind low prices of used German cars. If you are buying a new car, you can spend your full budget to purchase as your entire risk will be covered by warranty, zero-depreciation insurance, etc. When buying a used car, you should not spend your full budget to purchase - 10-15% of new car price should be your stand-by fund.

5. Have patience and wait for the right car. Always be willing to pay more if you find the right car - they get sold very fast.