[vj123]

I would like to get opinions from the fellow members as I’ve been contemplating on buying a M car for sometime.

To give a little bit of background, I had a 2018 Dodge Durango RT as my family hauler and 2019 Golf GTI Rabbit as my fun vehicle. I was planning to keep these vehicles for a very long time as these perfectly fit my needs.

With the current Covid crisis, used car market in US got pretty crazy. Dealers and people were offering crazy prices due to limited inventory this year and as a result, I sold both vehicles last month. My plan is to get a perfect vehicle for family hauling (a minivan) and get a real performance vehicle. Second vehicle in the household is not an immediate need due to current work from home scenario.

Getting a M vehicle is a dream come true. So this is my current dilemma, whether to buy a M2C now or wait for a few years and get the M3C or even a M3C lci.
- I know people hate the grills in newer M3c. I have seen a lot of them in person and it doesnt look terrible in person as in the pictures especially with darker exterior colors.
- I am not interested in M3 awd which will be coming up later this year and considering rwd on both vehicles.

I have placed a factory order for the M2C and the production is scheduled for next month. I can cancel the order without any issues as there is a huge demand for finding allocation for this vehicle.

M2c:
+ F87 platform is considered to be one of the best driving cars in the market and it offers a overall great package.
+ Last platform to get a DCT.
+ Perfect size.
+ Analog features. I might be old school but hand brake lever and analog guages is a big yes for me.
+ This will be the last MY from Leipzig plant as next gen G87 M2 production will move to Mexico.
- Not a big fan of coupes even though usability is not an issue with rear seats. This is a major turnoff for me in this vehicle.
- My current order has Long beach blue but not a big fan of any of other the color options and options are limited.
- I cannot take delivery from BMW factory in South Carolina as i will not be able to travel with a toddler in July.

M3c:
+ Current G80 are considered to be way better than previous F80s.
+ Prefer sedan over coupes.
+ I will be able to take Performance Center Delivery in BMW factory. Even though its not a big deal, it adds to the overall buying experience especially on a dream car.
- Too much electronics in the newer platforms.
- It will get ZF 8 speed. Even though everyone rates it to be really good, not a big fan and prefer DCTs.
- Price. I might be able to get good deals in the the next year or so. So price bump from M2c might not be a lot considering long term.

With current limited inventory, it hard to find dealer inventory, let alone extended test drives. I am not a YOLO person so wanted to take a sensible decision considering long term as i will be keeping this vehicle for a long time.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by vj123

So this is my current dilemma, whether to buy a M2C now or wait for a few years and get the M3C or even a M3C lci

Coming from a person who thinks and lives today as the last day, if you have to wait for that M3C because of budget or deliveries for a longer period, pick the M2 and enjoy. A close known, who also is a car guy, told, it's not important what car you have but when you have

But if you can wait, M3C will be a better vehicle if you forget that grill in the front. BMW has done a lot of improvements and it will be a complete daily car. Most important will be the X-drive and it will help in keeping up the prices in the used market too. Having owned both rear-wheel and X-drive M cars, it's a big difference with the X-drive. You feel so comfortable doing the speeds, which otherwise can turn scary by the slightest of an error or road conditions. To me, this will be a very important feature over anything else.

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by vj123

I would like to get opinions from the fellow members as I’ve been contemplating on buying a M car for sometime.

Hey Vibin,

Nice to know you are finally pulling the trigger . Heck, I was not aware that M2C has a RWD system. I thought most of new M's now come with xdrive

I agree with Turbanator' s suggestion that you should go with M2C (only if you are in a hurry and also want that old school feel driving pleasure. Besides that, keep in mind it will be just your spring/summer car)

In my opinion since this will be your first BMW and that too an M, you would be really hard pressed to know the real differences of an M2C vs M3C (except the power and handling observations which might not be too different for a first timer but, what you will notice is how M3C will drive differently purely due to xdrive)

Not sure if you have driven an M with a ZF? If no, please do try it out especially using paddle shifters. It's blisteringly fast and they are so perfectly mated/tuned to engines that you wont even feel the gears changing.

I think you should talk to Dilip (my neighbor) who works at ZF and he can tell you a thing or two about them

If you can wait or up your budget, get the M3C with an xdrive. It truly is a different feeling to drive the AWD Bimmers as it's stable at high speeds, takes off cleanly from a starting point and most importantly where we live (Detroit), it will keep you safe at all times

Finally, some decisions are taken with heart (all mine are purely from heart as I never allowed my mind to interfere at all...LOL) and go with what it tells you. Either ways, you will have an enjoyable experience

P.S : Btw, what is YOLO? I know 'am growing old and it's difficult to keep up with these abbreviations!

Originally Posted by Turbanator

But if you can wait, M3C will be a better vehicle if you forget that grill in the front. BMW has done a lot of improvements and it will be a complete daily car. Most important will be the X-drive and it will help in keeping up the prices in the used market too. Having owned both rear-wheel and X-drive M cars, it's a big difference with the X-drive. You feel so comfortable doing the speeds, which otherwise can turn scary by the slightest of an error or road conditions. To me, this will be a very important feature over anything else.

Completely agree on RWD vs AWD comparison. These Bimmers have just too much power and RWD would not be a wise choice for brutally cold Detroit winters

[vj123]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Coming from a person who thinks and lives today as the last day, if you have to wait for that M3C because of budget or deliveries for a longer period, pick the M2 and enjoy. A close known, who also is a car guy, told, it's not important what car you have but when you have

I have developed different automotive components (mechanical and electronics) across OEMs and based on my experience, i prefer not to buy first MY of any vehicle in the market. This is the major reason to wait for next MYs of M3c and additional discounts would be an addon as i really dont need a second vehicle in the household this year. People are flocking towards M3 awd allocations and i can find decent deals on M3c rwd allocation right now.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Most important will be the X-drive and it will help in keeping up the prices in the used market too. Having owned both rear-wheel and X-drive M cars, it's a big difference with the X-drive. You feel so comfortable doing the speeds, which otherwise can turn scary by the slightest of an error or road conditions. To me, this will be a very important feature over anything else.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I am titling towards rwd to get the raw M experience. Also this vehicle will not be my DD, my plan is to get a set of winter tires if i start using the vehicle during winter.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

But if you can wait, M3C will be a better vehicle if you forget that grill in the front. BMW has done a lot of improvements and it will be a complete daily car.

Sans the grill, most people say that G80 is a giant leap from F80.

Originally Posted by mobike008

Hey Vibin,

Nice to know you are finally pulling the trigger .

I agree with Turbanator' s suggestion that you should go with M2C (only if you are in a hurry and also want that old school feel driving pleasure. Besides that, keep in mind it will be just your spring/summer car)

Thank you Avinash. Yeah, I feel M2c is more old school than the newer platforms and i like it that way.

Originally Posted by mobike008

Heck, I was not aware that M2C has a RWD system. I thought most of new M's now come with xdrive

I agree with Turbanator' s suggestion that you should go with M2C (only if you are in a hurry and also want that old school feel driving pleasure. Besides that, keep in mind it will be just your spring/summer car)

If you can wait or up your budget, get the M3C with an xdrive. It truly is a different feeling to drive the AWD Bimmers as it's stable at high speeds, takes off cleanly from a starting point and most importantly where we live (Detroit), it will keep you safe at all times

If you can wait or up your budget, get the M3C with an xdrive. It truly is a different feeling to drive the AWD Bimmers as it's stable at high speeds, takes off cleanly from a starting point and most importantly where we live (Detroit), it will keep you safe at all times

Completely agree on RWD vs AWD comparison. These Bimmers have just too much power and RWD would not be a wise choice for brutally cold Detroit winters

This will most likely be my fun vehicle and will not be DDing it. If i plan to use them during winter, i would be buy a set of winters.

Originally Posted by mobike008

In my opinion since this will be your first BMW and that too an M, you would be really hard pressed to know the real differences of an M2C vs M3C (except the power and handling observations which might not be too different for a first timer but, what you will notice is how M3C will drive differently purely due to xdrive)

In 2013, I was planning to get a 3 series but ended up with a A4. Since i have owned several VAG vehicles, i want to jump to the other side this time. Also getting a real M vehicle is always a dream come true for car nuts like a P car.

Originally Posted by mobike008

Not sure if you have driven an M with a ZF? If no, please do try it out especially using paddle shifters. It's blisteringly fast and they are so perfectly mated/tuned to engines that you wont even feel the gears changing.

I think you should talk to Dilip (my neighbor) who works at ZF and he can tell you a thing or two about them

I havent driven a BMW with the ZF but all i hear is good things. Even though it might be great, heart says DCT. Driving manuals all my life, DSGs were the first automatic i got used to in my GTIs.

Yeah i should get some insider info from Dilip.

Originally Posted by mobike008

Finally, some decisions are taken with heart (all mine are purely from heart as I never allowed my mind to interfere at all...LOL) and go with what it tells you. Either ways, you will have an enjoyable experience

Whole M thing is a decision by heart. I wont go wrong with either of these choices, i think its just a matter of choice and want to take the wise decision.

Originally Posted by mobike008

P.S : Btw, what is YOLO? I know 'am growing old and it's difficult to keep up with these abbreviations!

Hahaha, i am not too far, its You Only Live Once.

[androdev]

If it's not a daily-driver and don't travel much with more than one passenger, it has to be M2C for two reasons: size and DCT.

Would be worth it even if you have to put up with a bit of two-door inconvenience (unless you have grumpy teenagers)

M3C would surely be a better overall car but I prefer the right car to a better car. Manufacturers (and popular opinion) do a lot to convince you to get the better car, but stick to the 'right' car for your intended purpose.

ZF is fantastic for a slush box. DCT is a 'natural'.

[Sahil]

I’m gonna go but against the tide and options here. Have you considered the M5c?
I’m sure there are great deals on it and if yet out of budget you could look at pre facelift m5c that would be going at stellar deals. The m8c could also be an option if they have made it to the pre worshipped market.

The reason I suggest this is because a v8 is a v8 and they are a dying breed. Since this is your first M car, let it be the purest of the lot because there is a good chance your next one has a smaller engine or maybe all electric.

The xdrive has a feature to run on RWD hence this should give you best of both worlds.

[vj123]

Originally Posted by androdev

If it's not a daily-driver and don't travel much with more than one passenger, it has to be M2C for two reasons: size and DCT.

Those are the two major things which pulls towards the M2c. BMWs have grown quite a bit over time. I would not prefer anything bigger than a 3. Again, its just my preference and I think M2 hits the right spot.

Originally Posted by androdev

Would be worth it even if you have to put up with a bit of two-door inconvenience (unless you have grumpy teenagers)

Worst scenario would be 3 of us (myself, wife and kid). My kid is a toddler and got plenty of time before he starts complaining for more space. People are hauling kids with two car seats, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Originally Posted by androdev

M3C would surely be a better overall car but I prefer the right car to a better car. Manufacturers (and popular opinion) do a lot to convince you to get the better car, but stick to the 'right' car for your intended purpose.

Great summary. They make us think newer is always better but that might not be the case.

Originally Posted by androdev

ZF is fantastic for a slush box. DCT is a 'natural'.

I remember reading an article long back that dual clutch transmissions are too expensive for manufacturers and that was a major reason to move away from them. Driving manuals all life, i started enjoying automatics in my GTIs with DSG transmissions and i drive in the manual mode more than 95%. M2 being the last BMW to have this, will be appreciated over time.

Originally Posted by Sahil

I’m gonna go but against the tide and options here. Have you considered the M5c?
I’m sure there are great deals on it and if yet out of budget you could look at pre facelift m5c that would be going at stellar deals. The m8c could also be an option if they have made it to the pre worshipped market.

I could find preworshipped M5Cs within my budget but its too big for my liking. Main reason why i have not looked into anything bigger than a M2/3.

I kinda have OCD on my cars and skeptical on even someone driving it. Single owner unmodded well maintained vehicles are hard to comeby. Used car market is pretty crazy and good examples are selling for unreasonable numbers. All these factors are making consider only the brand new ones.

Originally Posted by Sahil

The reason I suggest this is because a v8 is a v8 and they are a dying breed. Since this is your first M car, let it be the purest of the lot because there is a good chance your next one has a smaller engine or maybe all electric.

The xdrive has a feature to run on RWD hence this should give you best of both worlds.

V8s are definitely a dying breed and addictive, just the exhaust note in my Durango was worth it. I can imagine how it would be on the M5s. Main reason for zeroing in the M2c was its raw nature with minimal technology. Things are going to move the other way in newer vehicles whether we like it or not.

[Reesnat]

Besides the obvious practical differences like size, 4 doors, which you can give weightage according to your personal preference and needs, let me chip in talking about the driving experience.

M2C with its shorter wheelbase requires more skill to drive fast than the M3C would. Now is this is a good or a bad thing depends on how you choose to look at it. For me if you’re chasing pure driving ‘fun’ then the M2C will score higher in this department. If you want a safer, more practical fast car, the M3C wins.

If you’re living in colder climates where roads are very slippery majority of the year, then that makes the M2C even more hairy. On a dry day, it’s a blast.

On the new M3C, I’m yet to get over how horrid that front end looks, but yes, all the reviews so far seem to indicate a very good and mature driving experience.

Lastly, on the XDrive vs RWD BMWs. After having driven the Xdrive 340i in India, I actually wish we could get the RWD model. No doubt the XDrive launches incredibly and feels secure, but that fun factor and that pure uncorrupted steering of a RWD BMW is somehow missing. Not to mention the added weight also contributing negatively. If red light shenanigans is your thing, XDrive all day long. If driving fun is your thing, RWD all the way.

[Sahil]

Originally Posted by vj123

Main reason for zeroing in the M2c was its raw nature with minimal technology.

I think you should stick with your M2C allocation. Your heart seems pretty inclined towards it and it ticks most of your boxes. Best of all it’s already on order, in these unpredictable times I suggest take what’s coming sooner and easier.

Moreover, if you want to upgrade to the M3 later you always can. But the M2C of this gen will be gone and the next one ain’t looking so good. Besides it won’t have several factors that are important to you such as DCT and lesser tech.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by vj123

I have developed different automotive components (mechanical and electronics) across OEMs and based on my experience, i prefer not to buy first MY of any vehicle in the market.[

That's a little contradictory, do you mean, what you develop is supplied buggy and replaced in the later Years? From whatever I have owned, there may be some TSB's but usually, these are for small parts. On some models, even in LCI a lot of electronics or engine output gets changed, and typically it happens every 3-4 Years so I am not sure, if waiting just because of the fear that first Year European car will be a good reason.

Originally Posted by Sahil

Have you considered the M5c?
I’m sure there are great deals on it and if yet out of budget you could look at pre facelift m5c that would be going at stellar deals.

M5C- LCI came around 8 months before in the US, so there won't be any new- pre LCI lefts. Even when those were available, most cars got sold even before landing up at the yard. At least that was the situation in Canada when i checked last year. And, M cars get the least discounts or at least that was the case until recent past.

Originally Posted by Reesnat

if you’re chasing pure driving ‘fun’ then the M2C will score higher in this department. If you want a safer, more practical fast car, the M3C wins.

This will most likely be my fun vehicle and will not be Ding it. If i plan to use them during winter, i would be buy a set of winters.

There's a very fine line between fun and dangerous, public roads are not for fun...period. Neither we nor OP lives in Germany

OP has to be always under speed limits and for fun has to take the car to a track which must be many. And on a track, an M-X-Drive can work similarly to RWD.

Skip to 10:10

Regarding DCT vs ZF, the name DCT sounds nice but practically, ZF is so much better. DCT or the small size and the lack of technology on M2C cannot be a reason to go for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tFVpHS7At0

[Reesnat]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

There's a very fine line between fun and dangerous, public roads are not for fun...period. Neither we nor OP lives in Germany

OP has to be always under speed limits and for fun has to take the car to a track which must be many. And on a track, an M-X-Drive can work similarly to 2 W drive.

Regarding DCT vs ZF, the name DCT sounds nice but practically, ZF is so much better. DCT or the small size and the lack of technology on M2C cannot be a reason to go for it.

Some fair comments depending on your vantage point.

On the DCT vs ZF point - the ZF is the smoother gearbox and is better in the city, no doubt. But when you are driving these cars with any sort of spirit, that kick in the back-side the DCT box gives you when shifting in its most aggressive setting never ceases to plaster a massive smile on your face. You will want to take manual control on every drive just for that. To put it another way, ZF does its job quietly and efficiently, but the DCT on these M cars does it with a ton of drama.

Regarding public roads - if driving pleasure, fun and engagement are not high on the list, why buy any of the M cars at all? I obviously don't advocate driving like a lunatic on public roads, but that certainly doesn't mean you can't have fun while being safe. On this topic, I have a personal opinion - large AWD cars that go brutally fast in a straight line get boring quickly because they are best enjoyed while going quick. But a beautifully sharp and engaging car can be enjoyed at slower speeds too, relishing every turn, relishing every gear change. Going fast isn't the only 'fun' to be had with these cars in my opinion, you should aim to get more out of them.

While I agree the lack of technology may not be a positive for many, I strongly disagree on the size not being a factor to go for it - that is the single biggest draw of the M2 vs the other M cars and is certainly a decision making factor. While the 'fun' and 'safety' aspect can be debated, there is absolutely no doubt that the powerful S55 + DCT + small size + short wheelbase is a blast on any road, at any speed.

Truth is that all of these M cars are brilliant, each with their own strengths and weaknesses so there isn't a wrong answer here. Comes down to what exactly you want to experience and what your version of a fun car is.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by Reesnat

To put it another way, ZF does its job quietly and efficiently, but the DCT on these M cars does it with a ton of drama.

As an immediate past owner of one of the most powerful cars from BMW with DCT (M4C) and comparing to one of the current most powerful cars available from BMW -M5C (CS is a little away) for an extended period as a daily drive including some spirited driving (no track though) can safely say, ZF gives all the fun and little extra without compromising city driving as you have pointed rightly.

Your experience is based on M2C vs perhaps some occasional ZF M driving, so unless, I have grown super old (high chances) let's agree to disagree.

Regarding public roads - if driving pleasure, fun and engagement are not high on the list, why buy any of the M cars at all?

As I mentioned, there's a very fine line. Let me tell you from my use, despite having some other fast and luxury sedans, I invariably end up picking my M on, mostly. You can drive at 100 and still have full fun and keep yourself engaged. The kick I get on an M can never be experienced on a 740. And the stability and confidence, everything is so different.

large AWD cars that go brutally fast in a straight line get boring quickly because they are best enjoyed while going quick. But a beautifully sharp and engaging car can be enjoyed at slower speeds too, relishing every turn, relishing every gear change.

.

I will agree with an SUV, say a G AMG vs an M5 but if we talk about sedans, it will be absolutely wrong to assume that M2 give more fun than an M5.

Originally Posted by Reesnat

Comes down to what exactly you want to experience and what your version of a fun car is.

Well said

[Reesnat]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Your experience is based on M2C vs perhaps some occasional ZF M driving, so unless, I have grown super old (high chances) let's agree to disagree.

I will agree with an SUV, say a G AMG vs an M5 but if we talk about sedans, it will be absolutely wrong to assume that M2 give more fun than an M5.

Yes, you're right on my experience with the ZF being limited, so maybe with an extended period of time, I may appreciate the smoothness. But as of now, I'm not ready to call either one 'better', again, they are fairly different in character and some may prefer either. Most reviews of the new M3C said they missed the DCT of the F series. But in all other departments, the new one is better (barring the looks ofcourse).

M5 more fun than M2? I wouldn't agree. I was lucky enough to drive them both back to back on a track. Speed, M5 is ballistic. Corners, for all the wizardry in the M5 to hide its size, you can't beat physics entirely, and this was evident, the M2 was just so much more fun around corners.

Again, I am not saying either the M2 or M3 or M5 is better... each have their own strengths and one needs to evaluate all and see what matters to them most.

If practicality is high on the list, M2 is the least favorite. If speed is high on the list, M5. If driving dynamics and engagement is high on the list, the M2 will probably be the best choice. Going by my own assessment here, the M3C actually cuts exactly in the middle of both, and this is exactly the conclusion many reviewers made too.

[vj123]

Originally Posted by Sahil

I think you should stick with your M2C allocation. Your heart seems pretty inclined towards it and it ticks most of your boxes. Best of all it’s already on order, in these unpredictable times I suggest take what’s coming sooner and easier.

Moreover, if you want to upgrade to the M3 later you always can. But the M2C of this gen will be gone and the next one ain’t looking so good. Besides it won’t have several factors that are important to you such as DCT and lesser tech.

Yeah M2c ticks most boxes and the only major negatives is the form factor. I have not owned any coupes in the past and i guess its mostly a mental roadblock more than anything even though it might not be a major downside in my case.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

That's a little contradictory, do you mean, what you develop is supplied buggy and replaced in the later Years? From whatever I have owned, there may be some TSB's but usually, these are for small parts. On some models, even in LCI a lot of electronics or engine output gets changed, and typically it happens every 3-4 Years so I am not sure, if waiting just because of the fear that first Year European car will be a good reason.

In my current role, i launch radars used in SuperCruise platforms. In my previous role i tested brakes for mass produced vehicles sold across the globe and one of the last projects was validating front calipers used in current gen Accord.

OEM and Tier 1 component validation would cover most use cases faced by the customer. But our sample testing & scenarios are no match to the thousands of real world samples out in the field once a vehicle is launched. Quality and customer feedback improvises the product for subsequent MYs. TSBs cover issues which are reported outright to the public but lot of improvements are also done otherwise. This has become a little easier with OTA sw updates for electronics but thats not the case with mechanical components. This is the main reason i personally avoid any first MY vehicles in the market, be is American, German or even Japanese.

Originally Posted by Reesnat

Besides the obvious practical differences like size, 4 doors, which you can give weightage according to your personal preference and needs, let me chip in talking about the driving experience.

M2C with its shorter wheelbase requires more skill to drive fast than the M3C would. Now is this is a good or a bad thing depends on how you choose to look at it. For me if you’re chasing pure driving ‘fun’ then the M2C will score higher in this department. If you want a safer, more practical fast car, the M3C wins.

If you’re living in colder climates where roads are very slippery majority of the year, then that makes the M2C even more hairy. On a dry day, it’s a blast.

Thanks for sharing your personal experience. More i think about this, M2 and M3 are catering totally different audience as you have stated. M2 is more raw & fun whereas M3 is fun & more practical.

Whole M2c package was a blessing in disguise for customers as BMW was not meeting newer emission norms. Engine and chassis upgrades comes in with not so big price bump when compared with OG M2s. Also M2c were only sold in US market for 3 years.

Another big difference which i see at least in our market is that M2c are mostly bought by people whereas M3c are leased.

Originally Posted by Reesnat

Lastly, on the XDrive vs RWD BMWs. After having driven the Xdrive 340i in India, I actually wish we could get the RWD model. No doubt the XDrive launches incredibly and feels secure, but that fun factor and that pure uncorrupted steering of a RWD BMW is somehow missing. Not to mention the added weight also contributing negatively. If red light shenanigans is your thing, XDrive all day long. If driving fun is your thing, RWD all the way.

Since this would be my first M, i prefer having rwd experience of whichever model i choose even though awd offer better launch and stability in my conditions.

Originally Posted by Reesnat

On the new M3C, I’m yet to get over how horrid that front end looks, but yes, all the reviews so far seem to indicate a very good and mature driving experience.

Some vehicles arent photogenic and G80 is one of them. They looks a lot better in personal especially on darker shades. I was very skeptical in the beginning after looking at the pictures but have got over the looks after seeing them in person.

Mod Note : Please use the EDIT or QUOTE+ (multi-quote) button instead of typing one post after another on the SAME THREAD!

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by vj123

Quality and customer feedback improvises the product for subsequent MYs. TSBs cover issues which are reported outright to the public but a lot of improvements are also done otherwise.

Ok, except for isolated incidents, I don't think manufacturers change the parts in later years. LCI or mid-cycle refresh or model changes definitely.

But, anyway, it's your comfort, so in that context, continue with M2C. Regarding the coupe, if your kids are young or a couple, this won't be an issue.

Regarding your thoughts about being raw or more fun, have you driven both cars or are going by internet reviews? Newer M3 may not be available, so if you can find an M5, that will be closer to the new M3. Take a drive of both if possible.