[AVR]

If you read the Thread title, you are either here to advise don't do it or grab some popcorn and watch how this plays out.

So I have a practical family SUV (2017 Endeavor 3.2) and a Thar for off-road now. Been itching for something that is preowned, exciting, timeless and a SUV. No clear purpose but just something that is plain interesting to own. Now the journey down this path can always backfire and become a money pit but I have at least decided to play the field and see what's out there.

Cutting to the chase:
1) Is a previous version RR Vogue/Sport worth the risk? (Depending on vehicle 2011-2014 are the ones I see the most)
2) Anybody who was brave enough to do the above? Experiences?
3) How much should one set aside for contingency when it comes to buying a used RR? Is there even a limit?
4) Are authorized dealers the only way to get parts in India?
5) Any particular models/variants to steer away from ?

Would love to hear from you guys.

Cheers,
Adi

[GTO]

Originally Posted by AVR

So I have a practical family SUV (2017 Endeavor 3.2) and a Thar for off-road now.

You already have a lovely SUV & a Jeep. Why go looking for trouble? If I were you, I'd instead spice up the garage with a sweet pre-owned coupe or convertible (Cayman, Mini Cooper etc.). Or a fast sedan like a vRS.

Is a previous version RR Vogue/Sport worth the risk? (Depending on vehicle 2011-2014 are the ones I see the most)

I don't even have the risk appetite to buy a more practical Benz or BMW that's 8 - 10 years old. Hard to recommend a Range Rover of similar vintage.

It might still be acceptable abroad, but in India, you will struggle with the poor reliability, tough part supplies & finding independent garages who are well-versed with Range Rovers. If you absolutely want to buy an old luxury SUV, pick a Land Cruiser instead. Hell, even a Cayenne will be nicer to own.

How much should one set aside for contingency when it comes to buying a used RR? Is there even a limit?

With most older luxury cars, it usually averages to Rs. 1 - 1.5 lakhs a year. I have seen this consistently, across German brands & segments. For a Range Rover though (along with some other marques), I would peg this at a 2 - 3 lakh annual average. Remember the golden rule = no such thing as a cheap S-Class, and no such thing as a cheap Range Rover.

Also be prepared for a LOT of downtime. My far simpler C220 & 530d have spent up to 10 - 14 days off the road for major work. Will be longer with a Range Rover.

Are authorized dealers the only way to get parts in India?

There are some specialists in the big cities, but the internet & online part stores will be your new best friends.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by AVR

INo clear purpose but just something that is plain interesting to own.

No harm in this but as GTO suggested, I will too consider something similar, maybe an M3 or M4. Some of good examples of these from 2015-16 can be had from about 60 lac.

I'd instead spice up the garage with a sweet pre-owned coupe or convertible (Cayman, Mini Cooper etc.). Or a fast sedan like a vRS.

If you want to stick with LR, will try to answer based only on basic info in this segment as I could not muster enough courage to buy a brand new, leave aside old.

1) Is a previous version RR Vogue/Sport worth the risk? (Depending on vehicle 2011-2014 are the ones I see the most)

Yes, during that time these were the ones which usually were sold. There will be Discovery too but that may not serve your urge. Both Vogue and Sports in previous generations were heavy vehicles and can have 6 or 8 cylinders. Someone who has a first hand experience with these can probably chip in regarding which years to avoid. Otherwise, some forums in UK should be your best advise. Same for what you need to check when buying old.

3) How much should one set aside for contingency when it comes to buying a used RR? Is there even a limit?

Always remember, spares will be priced on basis of the new price of the vehicle and officially, JLR keeps a decent margin. If you have done your homework well and find the right vehicle, you will need to spend only on maintenance. But these things get faulty even when they are sitting in a covered garage.

4) Are authorized dealers the only way to get parts in India?

No, you can order directly online too. I get a lot of my stuff, Auto and Audio from overseas. If you have a IEC number and account with TNT/ DHL, this option works well. Else, a lot of local garages can source these for you.

5) Any particular models/variants to steer away from ?

I haven't see many ownership threads here on LR, so your best bet will be internet.

Originally Posted by GTO

Appetite to buy a more practical Benz or BMW that's 8 - 10 years old. Hard to recommend a Range Rover of similar vintage.

After a while, maybe as you grow older and given our present traffic conditions, I am a lot happier on my Toyota rather any European car. Too much electronics and delicate stuff.

If you absolutely want to buy an old luxury SUV, pick a Land Cruiser instead.

Super hard to get, I briefly thought of selling my 3 Year old, some guys came all the way from Chennai, despite I had clearly told the broker that I need time to think, their offer - almost same amount as I paid when bought new in 2018 and I still didn't sold it

even a Cayenne will be nicer to own.

Yes, the ones from 2006-2009, if he can find a nice Turbo or the ones with proper 4x4 off-road pack. Will be expensive to maintain but far more reliable and it was just the Porsche at that time, now VW-Porsche.

[AVR]

Originally Posted by GTO

You already have a lovely SUV & a Jeep. Why go looking for trouble? If I were you, I'd instead spice up the garage with a sweet pre-owned coupe or convertible (Cayman, Mini Cooper etc.). Or a fast sedan like a vRS.

Am not a sedan guy. For a few days was tempted by the CLA35 but then realized I should stick to SUVs since that's all I have ever owned and am comfortable with.
Looked at Land Cruisers but they don't lose value (am sure for a reason) and either they are holding unreasonable prices for the <10 yr old pieces or are >15-20 years old with little or no provenance and unreasonably high mileage plus registration issues.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

If you want to stick with LR, will try to answer based only on basic info in this segment as I could not muster enough courage to buy a brand new, leave aside old.

There's this saying "Chale to Chand tak warna shaam tak" - Either it will last you a lifetime or break down by end of the day. Basically sums up what you both said and leaning more towards the end of the day

I saw a 2012 (registered 2019) Vogue Autobiography V8 77k odo - Dealership owner's car so well-maintained. Everything worked in the 10-min test drive and the fiddling-around-with buttons test. Definitely a leap of faith though. Let's see what price he offers.

In my opinion, very few SUVs tug at the heartstrings - RR/G/Wrangler/LC100. Everything else is just a decent attempt at an SUV for me. I have been going all over the place in terms of searching since there is no specific purpose for the car. Given the lack of urgency to buy, am even thinking I kick the can down the road by a few years and look at 50-70L budget in a 1-1.5 year horizon.

Honestly keeping practicality aside, once you sit inside the RR the mind stops working.

Cheers,
Adi

[Sahil]

Please list your budget, will be easier to advice accordingly

Originally Posted by GTO

With most older luxury cars, it usually averages to Rs. 1 - 1.5 lakhs a year. I have seen this consistently, across German brands & segments. For a Range Rover though (along with some other marques), I would peg this at a 2 - 3 lakh annual average. Remember the golden rule = no such thing as a cheap S-Class, and no such thing as a cheap Range Rover.

I have been averaging below 1L in most cases. This is with a mix of dealership and FNG with OE parts for maintenance.

I think the horror days of RR ownership are over, I think you need to get over the trauma GTO. I am just wishful since I have a JLR now

[a4_attitude]

Originally Posted by AVR

I saw a 2012 (registered 2019) Vogue Autobiography V8 77k odo - Dealership owner's car so well-maintained. Everything worked in the 10-min test drive and the fiddling-around-with buttons test. Definitely a leap of faith though. Let's see what price he offers.


Adi

I most cases when it's a owner's car it means it's a demo car, which most probably used as demo car then registered in 2019, there is no way you can ride 77k in 2 years and thats too with two major lockdowns

[quattroa4]

Dear AVR ,
What a topic , too good!!!!! I was in the same situation a year and half back and then in a same dilemma as you are in right now , what a classic repeat .
But then something happened , on this very same forum Bhpian BlackPearl put up a thread of his purchase of a preowned Range Rover ( sport - I think ) and the journey he undertook in it. Please find it in the forums section here only and then after reading it in excitement I took a jump in it blindly ending up in purchase of a preowned RR Vogue 4.4 L TDV8 model of 2012 from a reputed dealer . The vehicle arrived on 23rd March 2020 to be precise and till date the story continues .
Frankly , do i love it right now ? Answer is absolutely YES, what a ride comes a thought every time I see her in the morning and it drives and feels the way no other car can match , it's a Range Rover after all and for a reason .
Now on the reliability side , no problems faced such so far mechanically but the infotainment system is giving troubles and I have been advised to change some modules in it for cameras and display which will cost approx 70-80 K and waiting for it since last 3 months and delivery not in sight yet , think will take another month for it .
As due to lockdowns covered only 6K kms in it , but as GTO points out maintenance could be in the range of approx 2 Lakhs per year considering spare and tyre costs .
My suggestion will be , if you have patient as one of your qualities then go for it .

[GhostRider28]

Originally Posted by Sahil

Please list your budget, will be easier to advice accordingly



I have been averaging below 1L in most cases. This is with a mix of dealership and FNG with OE parts for maintenance.

I think the horror days of RR ownership are over, I think you need to get over the trauma GTO. I am just wishful since I have a JLR now

This is reassuring indeed!
I was thinking of a preowned Evoque with a year of OEM warranty left if possible. Not sure if this is even possible at 25-26ish price.
I was too scared to even think about it! But I have hopes that this thread will fuel my ambition a bit.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by AVR

3) How much should one set aside for contingency when it comes to buying a used RR? Is there even a limit?

Ideal scenario:
Routine service at the dealer should not cost you more than 1L per year on avg - assuming no repairs and just scheduled maintenance like oils, filters, brakes etc. Insurance would be about 50K per year. Tires would be about 80K for 30K km.

Optimistic scenario:
Ideal scenario + one or two moderate repairs such as suspension, AC, convenience features. Max 5 Lakhs, can possibly done in pvt garages. You will find a lot DIY info on the web. In some cases, you might just decide to live with a stuck window or sunroof, etc.

Pessimistic scenario:
Major drivetrain issues. Bottomless pit. Even 15-20L may not save the day. Authorised dealership might be the only option. Goodwill discount can soften the blow but won't be that easy for 2nd owner of a fairly aged car. Same would be the case if there are any major road accidents.

Someone who is new to this segment, has never seen a private workshop and completely depends on authorised dealers should stick to single owner cars with impeccable service history no matter how tempting the deals are on cars with unknown history. I would avoid cars from owners who are in car business - they are just too smart. You should be open to scout for out of state cars till you find a clean car.

You should go for what your heart desires. Buy with pessimism. Own it with optimism.

[viren83]

Dont get too old a car, the feel of sitting inside won't be that great. I feel you should get hold of a Range Rover Sport in 60L with less than 50k KM's (rather than a 77k run RR)and keep an annual burn of 4L for its upkeep.

I could agree to your urge for a Range rovers, one of my cousin swears by his freelander and I know how Range Rover lovers see other SUV's.

Originally Posted by AVR

I kick the can down the road by a few years and look at 50-70L budget in a 1-1.5 year horizon.

This looks like a better bet knowing the upcoming facelift would also get you better deals.

[AVR]

Originally Posted by quattroa4

Dear AVR ,
What a topic , too good!!!!! I was in the same situation a year and half back and then in a same dilemma as you are in right now , what a classic repeat .
I took a jump in it blindly ending up in purchase of a preowned RR Vogue 4.4 L TDV8 model of 2012 from a reputed dealer . .

We could be the next best friends I need to call you. Please dm

Originally Posted by GhostRider28

I was too scared to even think about it! But I have hopes that this thread will fuel my ambition a bit.

I've a friend who bought a used Evoque. Happy so far

Originally Posted by androdev

I

Someone who is new to this segment, has never seen a private workshop and completely depends on authorised dealers should stick to single owner cars with impeccable service history no matter how tempting the deals are on cars with unknown history. I would avoid cars from owners who are in car business - they are just too smart. You should be open to scout for out of state cars till you find a clean car.

You should go for what your heart desires. Buy with pessimism. Own it with optimism.

I've owned a Jeep and an older Endeavour with GB issues. I count garages as second homes though I'd like to believe I'll be luckier this time!

Originally Posted by viren83

This looks like a better bet knowing the upcoming facelift would also get you better deals.

Yes. Am seriously thinking to wait it out if I don't get tempted too much.

Originally Posted by Sahil

Please list your budget, will be easier to advice accordingly

:

<40

Originally Posted by a4_attitude

I most cases when it's a owner's car it means it's a demo car, which most probably used as demo car then registered in 2019, there is no way you can ride 77k in 2 years and thats too with two major lockdowns

Yes been used throughout but registered later. Just Helps with 12 years of no RC issues.

[AirbusCapt]

Originally Posted by GhostRider28

This is reassuring indeed!
I was thinking of a preowned Evoque with a year of OEM warranty left if possible. Not sure if this is even possible at 25-26ish price.
I was too scared to even think about it! But I have hopes that this thread will fuel my ambition a bit.

Standard warranty is 3 years, extended to 5 years. So a 3 year old Evoque will be available at about 45 lakh (a great example), and a 5 year old model may come within 35 lakh I guess. The Evoque is a fuss free car when compared with the bigger range rovers but a little tiny for space.

[sunilch]

Originally Posted by AVR

Been itching for something that is preowned, exciting, timeless and a SUV. No clear purpose but just something that is plain interesting to own.

If you add exclusivity to the criteria, a Porsche Cayenne will be a good fit and an experience to own. It will be hard to find one compared to the LR but if you do find one, the search could be worth it. Another alternative is a Volvo XC90 but it isn't that exciting to drive and dealership support is minimal.

[Mango]

I know 2 people who collectively have had 3 range rovers and here is what I have incurred from their experiences so far :

Person 1 -

2011 Ranger Rover Sport SDV6 Diesel : Had amazing road presence and did pull all the looks on the road, had good power and handling too. Was a nightmare to maintain in the later years. The car blew its shocks a few times and had some engine problems too which is okay and acceptable in luxury cars but the bills were astonishing, more so was the waiting time on parts, the car used to sit in the workshop for months just waiting for basic parts like broken bumpers and lights and any technical gremlin used to take even more. The infotainment system was outdated even by 2011 standards in my opinion and I was just 12 at the time and felt it was cumbersome and quite laggy. The car only did around 30k kms when it was sold in 2018.



2018 Ranger Rover Sport SDV6 Diesel : While his previous car was a nightmare, the car actually became the owner's identity and he bought a new one few years back, the car has been generally reliable so far but the long waiting periods on basic parts like trim pieces and headlights still take 4-6 weeks to arrive. Otherwise it's a hoot to drive and he mostly self drives it because it is brilliant to drive.

The owner is a builder, who doesn't have troubles shelling out a couple of lakhs on servicing and maintenance parts in one go, also he does own multiple cars and it being in the dealership so often doesn't seem to bother him much but then it seems the car stays there just to be a statement of his wealth and the identity. The other cars that he owns and drives are, A BMW 640d which is the most driven and his family has a couple of benz's as well.

Person 2 -

2018 Ranger Rover Vogue Diesel - This car is from Jharkhand and I was not sure if it is a used one or not but it just randomly appeared in my society one day and I was curious, the owner did seem to hide the fact that it was second hand, but still would have costed him above 1 crores anyway. The car was good aesthetically and the interior was beautiful too. Just the sheer size of the car made it stand out and everyone stared in awe. Talked recently to the owner and it seems to be working fine apart from the one very weird issue with the electricals which was caused by Humidity as per LR.

In my honest opinions, even buying New Range Rover's remains a gamble no matter how cool they may look. Buying a used one is a challenge on it's own because while it is a very subjective matter, the car's are often abused and they are notorious for electrical issues. And we cannot forget that this car was made famous by the one and only so i would stay away :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvJCCoLoKRA

[FloatingCanvas]

I have only once sat inside a RR Vogue and couldn't believe the attention to detail to every single aspect, including such wonderful materials all around with superb tactile feel. Love the iconic look, have nothing to compare the stupendous comfort inside or the marquee looks on the outside. But even in the highly unlikely (hypothetical) situation where I could get one for under INR 20 lacs, the maintenance costs and astronomical repair expenses would never let me even consider the vehicle purchase.

But the heart wants what the heart wants. Even if it may cause a stroke or two in future.

Originally Posted by androdev

You should go for what your heart desires. Buy with pessimism. Own it with optimism.

What a wonderful line!

This should be the mantra of buying pre-owned cars. Brilliant tagline.

Applicable to all pre-owned purchases, but unfortunately, the optimistic scenario of a JLR product is kinda worse than the pessimistic scenario of a Toyota or even a Maruti. I'm a huge fan of the TATA house of business and really wish they manage to improve the reliability of the fantastic beasts they make.