[maverick6106]

Hello everyone,

I have been a long term reader of this forum. Currently, we own a Getz 1.5 crdi 2008 model and a Toyota Innova 2012 model. We plan to retain both the vehicles. We are a family of 4 from Sagar,MP and believe in holding onto our cars as long as possible because frequently changing cars does not make financial sense. My father,62 years, wants to purchase a luxury vehicle with a budget of 45 lakhs . It has been a dream of his to purchase a luxury vehicle. Initially, he wanted to go for a new vehicle but I convinced him to look at pre-owned options as well after reading the various posts on this forum about advantages of buying them. I am self employed and have businesses across real estate and fuel stations. We are eligible for BH registration as well.


Requirements:
1. Sedan or Sportback
2. Reliable: The nearest service centers for BMW, AUDI, Mercedes and Volvo are 360kms, 160kms,160kms and 360kms respectively so getting major breakdowns repaired will be a bit of a hassle. Locally, we have a Toyota sales and service center.
3. The average annual Mileage on our cars has been 10k Kms.
4. Strong preference for Diesels: The initial torque, superior fuel efficiency and better built engines outweigh the noise concerns higher initial price in my humble opinion. A six cylinder diesel would be an icing on the cake.
5. It should be able to seat 4 comfortably. We already have Toyota Innova if space for more pax or luggage is needed.
6. It will be used daily(60%) and for occasional highway runs(40%).
7. It should be in company warranty.
8. The vehicle will be 90% self driven by me and my father.

Concerns:
1. Decent ground clearance( around 160mm) as local roads and National highways connected to our city are littered with potholes with even the north- south corridor having sudden bad patches of road.
2.Distance of company service centers. We are open to getting the car serviced at local FNGs but their competence remains a concern.
3. Maintenance Costs - As per caredge, based on 10 year maintenance costs, Lexus,Audi,Mercedes and BMW are the least Expensive Luxury Brands to maintain in that order.
4. Reliability: On digging deeper into brand wise maintenance costs on caredge, I have observed the following statistics for major repair probability in 10 years of ownership: Lexus( 17.2 %), AUDI (30.5%), Volvo(30.46%), Mercedes (35.87%) and BMW(49.8%). The data suggests that BMW is unreliable if held for 10 years with the rest of the brands pretty similar in comparison and Lexus outperforming others. However on perusing though the forums, BMW is considered more reliable than Mercedes based on general perception and ownership reviews.



Vehicles Short listed:
1.Used BMW 530D(G30)-

• Likes- RWD, Strong diesel engine, good handling characteristics, Well built interior
• Areas of Concern- Laden Ground Clearance, Lack of dedicated space for spare tyre, Rear seat comfort.

2. Used BMW 630D(2018 OR 2019)

• Likes:- Same as 530d plus additional rear legroom, more comfortable ride because of Air Suspension, more practical, Higher laden ground clearance because of lower variations in ride height while going over speed bumps.
• Areas of Concern:- Good examples might be out of budget and 2018 models might not be niggle free as they were part of first few batches, Looks are subjective, reliability of Air Suspension

3. Used Mercedes E Class(V213 E350)

• Likes: Strong badge value which is still most recognizable of the lot and resonates with the masses, Rear Leg room, Comfortable, Opulent interior
• Areas on concern: Long term cost of ownership, handling, electrical niggles,air suspension, maybe out of budget

4. Used Mercedes E Class(W212 E350CDI)

• Likes: Famous for its bullet proof reliability,models from 2017 will have good reliability as most niggle will have been sorted out, looks, well within the budget

• Areas of Concern:- A phased out model, Most cars will be out of warranty, will require frequent maintenance, features and electronics are old school.

5. New Toyota Camry

• Likes:-Sharp looks, excellent fuel efficiency, reliability, local service center, good rear legroom, tax benefits on depreciation and car loan
• Areas of concern:- Under powered, slow to respond gearbox, No badge value, Belly scraping because of soft suspension and low ground clearance.

6. New Lexus ES

• Likes:-Sharp looks, excellent fuel efficiency, reliability, good rear legroom, tax benefits,
• Areas of concern:- Under powered, slow to respond gearbox, belly scraping because of soft suspension and low ground clearance and nearest service center(Delhi) is over 600 kms away, out of budget.

I have not shortlisted Skoda Superb as it is petrol only. I welcome the valuable input of esteemed forum members on this dilemma.

[zandot]

I am also in a similar conundrum to you, same budget and same no 1. And 2. Vehicles shortlisted. I already have a 2022 mg zs ev as my daily and was contemplating a used luxury a secondary.

Sadly there’s such few decent second hand vehicles available in the market at the moment in Mumbai at least that most dealers are offering Pune registered or ex factory registered vehicles (Mercedes) floating around. Will be watching this thread closely!

[asit.kulkarni93]

Before you start shortlisting cars, Visit the FNG near your place. Discuss with the owners, what premium vehicles they have worked on, if they are equipped with basic diagnostic tools and how much time do spare parts normally take to arrive. I am sure you know plenty of people around Sagar who have premium cars and they can give you a feedback on the overall experience. Do not go by numbers, Many cars with stiff suspension wouldn't bottom out easily. If GC is still a concern then it's best you look at the Q5/X3 or the last gen X5 or diesel Q7.

[revsperminute]

With your requirements, I don’t see a sedan being the car for you. Look at SUVs like the X3, GLC. However finding one within company warranty will be a task.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by maverick6106

The nearest service centers for BMW, AUDI, Mercedes and Volvo are 360kms, 160kms,160kms and 360kms respectively so getting major breakdowns repaired will be a bit of a hassle. Locally, we have a Toyota sales and service center.

As Asit said, you have to first check if there is a good independent garage for luxury cars close to your place. If yes, awesome. Then consider a used X3, GLE etc. Or a 630d if you can manage with the GC. But I don't think a low-slung sedan like the 530d will be a good choice for a small city like Sagar.

If you don't have a competent luxury car specialist, just buy a Fortuner or Tucson and close it. The 2022 Tucson compares favourably with the entry-level German luxury cars. Fantastic engine + gearbox, luxurious enough, better reliability than the Germans and you have a local Hyundai dealer for support. Fortuner if you can live with the body-on-frame SUV compromises.

[EV NXT]

The new Tucson is very unhyundai. It handles well, is fast, and rock steady at high speeds.

Feels solid, has enough features to keep you happy and is very comfortable too.

If you can live with the badge this is a german in disguise.

[androdev]

As long as you are being realistic with your expectations, you can surely consider a premium luxury in a small town. The prestige of owning these brands in a small town would be at another level - which can be a pro or con depending on your point of view.

Go for a new car. I know the numbers look tempting but when you consider the big picture (your intention to own it for many years, sentimental aspects of buying for parents and all the nice intangibles that come with a new purchase), you should absolutely consider a new car. I would even go to the extent of saying that your family/parents would appreciate and remember the car buying and delivery process more than the car itself. More importantly, with a new car you will have a honeymoon period of initial 60-70K km at least whereas with a used car, you are likely to hit rough weather pretty early and it will ruin the whole project. Most people who confidently buy used luxury cars are very experienced with selection and servicing of such cars.

If you go with a new car, you just need to go through the hassle of servicing the car once a year (assuming your usage will be less than 15K km per year). Luxury car service centres will mostly oblige to send their driver to your place or arrange a flat bed to get your car serviced. It will cost few bucks but you have to accept it as the price for living in a small town.

Given the far off location of the service centre, the downtime will be a bit longer than usual during which time you will have to manage with other cars in your garage. Keep in mind that BMW follows condition-based servicing which might not be convenient and skipping service will void warranty. My recommendation would be to go with Mercedes, they are very established players and surely have familiarity with serving many clients from smaller cities.

Current C class would be as good a package as previous gen E class, so you won't be getting any less car if your budget allows you to buy a new car from one segment lower. The current generation Mercedes cars look really upmarket and would delight parents and family. Visit the showroom and test drive to see what appeals to both heart and pocket.

Lexus is another good option assuming local Toyota can service the car. Since you said the car will be driven by you or your dad, I would say go with the German brands. They are certainly more enjoyable to drive, esp on highways, and worth the hassle of dealing with far off service centres.

Camry and Tucson are very good cars and will be pragmatic choices but the laws of risk vs reward always apply in life.

If you want to explore pre-owned options, limit your search to "within warranty" cars from official pre-owned sales divisions of MB, BMW, Audi, etc. Don't buy from open market unless the seller is a known person.

Ultimately owning a luxury car in a big city itself is a demanding exercise (both money and effort) and suitable only to those who fancy such indulgence. Many HNIs neither desire such cars nor willing to put up with the hassles. Things get amplified when you are in a small town (both the good and the bad) and it's up to you to decide if you enjoy such a car ownership to justify the hassle. Another way to look it is, do it once as indulgence. If the experience works out great, you would be pleased with your decision. Otherwise, cut your losses and don't repeat :-)

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by androdev

Current C class would be as good a package as previous gen E class, so you won't be getting any less car if your budget allows you to buy a new car from one segment lower. The current generation Mercedes cars look really upmarket and would delight parents and family. Visit the showroom and test drive to see what appeals to both heart and pocket.

+1 and shocked to not see more mentions for this car.

I suppose the C-Class is like the Brezza of the entry level luxury car market. It is the obvious choice and has been for nearly a decade now for anyone considering a luxury car.

The car definitely served us 3rd world markets well by elevating itself in 2014 in the W205 guise. Ever since, the C-Class has seemed like good value (not a word one usually associates with entry level luxury products).

[maverick6106]

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

Before you start shortlisting cars, Visit the FNG near your place. Discuss with the owners, what premium vehicles they have worked on, if they are equipped with basic diagnostic tools and how much time do spare parts normally take to arrive. I am sure you know plenty of people around Sagar who have premium cars and they can give you a feedback on the overall experience. Do not go by numbers, Many cars with stiff suspension wouldn't bottom out easily. If GC is still a concern then it's best you look at the Q5/X3 or the last gen X5 or diesel Q7.

Yes some the horror stories behind procurement of spare parts for luxury brands is definitely a tun off. The competence of local fngs is limited at best.

Originally Posted by revsperminute

With your requirements, I don’t see a sedan being the car for you. Look at SUVs like the X3, GLC. However finding one within company warranty will be a task.

Yes SUVS seem like the logical choice. However sedans are the only body style in consideration as of now since we already have a hatchback and a MUV.

Originally Posted by GTO

As Asit said, you have to first check if there is a good independent garage for luxury cars close to your place. If yes, awesome. Then consider a used X3, GLE etc. Or a 630d if you can manage with the GC. But I don't think a low-slung sedan like the 530d will be a good choice for a small city like Sagar.

If you don't have a competent luxury car specialist, just buy a Fortuner or Tucson and close it. The 2022 Tucson compares favourably with the entry-level German luxury cars. Fantastic engine + gearbox, luxurious enough, better reliability than the Germans and you have a local Hyundai dealer for support. Fortuner if you can live with the body-on-frame SUV compromises.

Badge value is important to us. We feel that the Fortuner does not exactly portray an image of sophistication. Also it is a fairly common vehicle in these parts. The only reason why Toyota Camry is in contention is because of local sales and support. Local garages don't even have OBD scanners but i feel that they will be be able to change engine oil, brake pads filters when required. Do such routine tasks require the codes to be cleared? 630d is at the top of my consideration set. The only issue is finding ones in warranty at that budget. Most of the examples are likely to be 4-5 years old. Mentally I am fine with spending 1-1.5 L per year on maintenance. The only thing that worries me is the downtime for the vehicle.

Originally Posted by EV NXT

The new Tucson is very unhyundai. It handles well, is fast, and rock steady at high speeds.

Feels solid, has enough features to keep you happy and is very comfortable too.

If you can live with the badge this is a german in disguise.

Since it is more of an emotional purchase, it has to be a luxury brand.

Originally Posted by androdev

As long as you are being realistic with your expectations, you can surely consider a premium luxury in a small town. The prestige of owning these brands in a small town would be at another level - which can be a pro or con depending on your point of view.

Go for a new car. I know the numbers look tempting but when you consider the big picture (your intention to own it for many years, sentimental aspects of buying for parents and all the nice intangibles that come with a new purchase), you should absolutely consider a new car. I would even go to the extent of saying that your family/parents would appreciate and remember the car buying and delivery process more than the car itself. More importantly, with a new car you will have a honeymoon period of initial 60-70K km at least whereas with a used car, you are likely to hit rough weather pretty early and it will ruin the whole project. Most people who confidently buy used luxury cars are very experienced with selection and servicing of such cars.

If you go with a new car, you just need to go through the hassle of servicing the car once a year (assuming your usage will be less than 15K km per year). Luxury car service centres will mostly oblige to send their driver to your place or arrange a flat bed to get your car serviced. It will cost few bucks but you have to accept it as the price for living in a small town.

Given the far off location of the service centre, the downtime will be a bit longer than usual during which time you will have to manage with other cars in your garage. Keep in mind that BMW follows condition-based servicing which might not be convenient and skipping service will void warranty. My recommendation would be to go with Mercedes, they are very established players and surely have familiarity with serving many clients from smaller cities.

Current C class would be as good a package as previous gen E class, so you won't be getting any less car if your budget allows you to buy a new car from one segment lower. The current generation Mercedes cars look really upmarket and would delight parents and family. Visit the showroom and test drive to see what appeals to both heart and pocket.

Lexus is another good option assuming local Toyota can service the car. Since you said the car will be driven by you or your dad, I would say go with the German brands. They are certainly more enjoyable to drive, esp on highways, and worth the hassle of dealing with far off service centres.

Camry and Tucson are very good cars and will be pragmatic choices but the laws of risk vs reward always apply in life.

If you want to explore pre-owned options, limit your search to "within warranty" cars from official pre-owned sales divisions of MB, BMW, Audi, etc. Don't buy from open market unless the seller is a known person.

Ultimately owning a luxury car in a big city itself is a demanding exercise (both money and effort) and suitable only to those who fancy such indulgence. Many HNIs neither desire such cars nor willing to put up with the hassles. Things get amplified when you are in a small town (both the good and the bad) and it's up to you to decide if you enjoy such a car ownership to justify the hassle. Another way to look it is, do it once as indulgence. If the experience works out great, you would be pleased with your decision. Otherwise, cut your losses and don't repeat :-)

If we consider a new vehicle; BMW 3 series, Audi A4 and Toyota Camry are within our budget. I feel that the entry level vehicles in BMW and Audi might not be as well built like the 5 series/A6. There are many luxury vehicles running around in my city mostly BMW X3, Mercedes Benz GLE and Audi Q5. Most of them are SUVS and sedans are very rare here.
As for annual servicing i visit Bhopal twice a year so it can be taken care of then. I have heard from multiple owners that Mercedes are the most well built but their maintenance costs are also very high at the official centers. It is indeed an indulgence, more of a heart over head decision otherwise Toyota Camry would have been the clear choice as it ticks most of boxes apart from fun to drive factor , GC and badge value. Yes a preowned Lexus would be a good choice (assuming local Toyota centre can service) it but it doesn't have same performance as the six cylinder diesels and from what I have read scrapes it belly very easily.Is the current C-class as well built and has similar NVH levels as W212/V213?

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

+1 and shocked to not see more mentions for this car.

I suppose the C-Class is like the Brezza of the entry level luxury car market. It is the obvious choice and has been for nearly a decade now for anyone considering a luxury car.

The car definitely served us 3rd world markets well by elevating itself in 2014 in the W205 guise. Ever since, the C-Class has seemed like good value (not a word one usually associates with entry level luxury products).

I feel that the C-class is a bit over priced now and does not have a very usable boot.

Originally Posted by zandot

I am also in a similar conundrum to you, same budget and same no 1. And 2. Vehicles shortlisted. I already have a 2022 mg zs ev as my daily and was contemplating a used luxury a secondary.

Sadly there’s such few decent second hand vehicles available in the market at the moment in Mumbai at least that most dealers are offering Pune registered or ex factory registered vehicles (Mercedes) floating around. Will be watching this thread closely!

What are ex-factory registered vehicles? Demo cars? The search for preowned is frustrating and it the hardship is compounded by the fact that i cannot physically visit the dealers. Most of them decline to provide service history and invoice of the vehicle electronically. Till date out of 7-8 vehicles that I have shown interest in only 1 delaer has provided a service history. I feel that making a physical visit without background checks being complete would just be a waste of my time. Interestingly there are a lot of Audi A6 and Mercedes E class floating around in the open pre owned market and even on the certified channels. We should maybe go in for 3-4 years old cars in warranty and hope that we get all issues are sorted out before warranty expires in 1-2 years.

[dieselhead01]

Not being completely biased or anything, but just close your eyes, forget about those little flaws, and go for the 530D. Although the 630D is a head turner, and is indeed a step ahead of the 530D in the looks/space/features (suspension & ride quality) department but despite having the same engine the 5 feels much more agile than the 6. The 530D will bring about a smile on your face, which none of the other cars in your list would. That 3L motor is deadly, I can’t see any other options even coming close to the driving pleasure it offers. In simple words, the drive of the 530D is so sorted that you can just buy it for the drive alone. I own a 11 year old 530D E60, and I haven’t had much issues with, and is still a dream to drive, although I wish to someday own the 530D G30, I can only imagine how wild the drive would be, considering the 530D E60 was exhilarating enough. These are the pics of my beloved:

[asit.kulkarni93]

Originally Posted by maverick6106

Local garages don't even have OBD scanners but i feel that they will be be able to change engine oil, brake pads filters when required. Do such routine tasks require the codes to be cleared?

The segment of vehicles that you are looking at, rear brake pad change requires a competent scanner. If you are unsure of the FNG's competency, Please skip on German cars. Driving pleasure maybe important to you but please understand these cars have a process to work on and if not followed it can be troublesome. These cars are fairly reliable but when running repairs need to be carried out is when you need competent people.

You should consider a used Landcruiser Prado. It's way better than the Fortuner. Used Lexus ES or NX are a decent option too. If you want to skip on unnecessary trouble, Just stick to the Toyota Camry or Skoda Superb.

[zandot]

Originally Posted by maverick6106

What are ex-factory registered vehicles? Demo cars? The search for preowned is frustrating and it the hardship is compounded by the fact that i cannot physically visit the dealers.

Not really sure what the intended use is, just a best guess either test vehicles or for ferrying guests. However, they are a growing number of vehicles for sale in Mumbai bearing the MH14 registration mark (Pimpri-Chinchwad) registered by the manufacturer themselves - not to be confused by those BSIV vehicles that were registered in 2020 by various manufacturers before the deadline. While the sales guys like to say oh it's because the Mercedes Benz CEO was using this car There's a couple which were the media test drive cars too as the plates match those found on various youtube videos.

[arsenalfan]

I have a Toyota Camry hybrid 2017 model, gives 11-12 kmpl in Bangalore traffic. The new 2022 version gives 18kmpl is what I have heard from friends. Yes, the ground clearance is probably 155mm and might scrape a tall speed breaker if you don't drive it properly. But I wouldn't say it's underpowered; rides beautifully on highways and even in the ghats (took it to Ooty before the monsoons).

Why bother about badge value if you like the car?

[maverick6106]

Originally Posted by dieselhead01

Not being completely biased or anything, but just close your eyes, forget about those little flaws, and go for the 530D. Although the 630D is a head turner, and is indeed a step ahead of the 530D in the looks/space/features (suspension & ride quality) department but despite having the same engine the 5 feels much more agile than the 6. The 530D will bring about a smile on your face, which none of the other cars in your list would. That 3L motor is deadly, I can’t see any other options even coming close to the driving pleasure it offers. In simple words, the drive of the 530D is so sorted that you can just buy it for the drive alone. I own a 11 year old 530D E60, and I haven’t had much issues with, and is still a dream to drive, although I wish to someday own the 530D G30, I can only imagine how wild the drive would be, considering the 530D E60 was exhilarating enough. These are the pics of my beloved:

Nice pics of your car. She is indeed a beauty and must be a hoot to drive. It's because of posts like yours, my first preference is the 3 liter diesel. The only thing that stops me from going ahead is the perceived lack of GC. Any idea about the difference in laden ground clearance between 530D/630D? There are multiple videos on youtube about how BMW diesels use plastic parts and their rubber hoses which harden and disintegrate over time. How has your experience been in this regard? Are Mercedes engines built to better standards?

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

The segment of vehicles that you are looking at, rear brake pad change requires a competent scanner. If you are unsure of the FNG's competency, Please skip on German cars. Driving pleasure maybe important to you but please understand these cars have a process to work on and if not followed it can be troublesome. These cars are fairly reliable but when running repairs need to be carried out is when you need competent people.

You should consider a used Landcruiser Prado. It's way better than the Fortuner. Used Lexus ES or NX are a decent option too. If you want to skip on unnecessary trouble, Just stick to the Toyota Camry or Skoda Superb.

Yes I completely agree with you. I am comfortable taking the vehicle outstation for routine repairs and preventive maintenance. What does concern me are the unexpected repairs which would mar whatever driving pleasure is derived from German cars.The probability of an unexpected breakdown A used Lexus ES seems to be the best choice provided it does not scrape its belly under full load. Lexus India does not have figures for laden ground clearance.

Originally Posted by zandot

Not really sure what the intended use is, just a best guess either test vehicles or for ferrying guests. However, they are a growing number of vehicles for sale in Mumbai bearing the MH14 registration mark (Pimpri-Chinchwad) registered by the manufacturer themselves - not to be confused by those BSIV vehicles that were registered in 2020 by various manufacturers before the deadline. While the sales guys like to say oh it's because the Mercedes Benz CEO was using this car There's a couple which were the media test drive cars too as the plates match those found on various Youtube videos.

Such vehicles must have faced a lot abuse. If they come with a 2 year warranty or an option to extend warranty for maximum amount of time, would it make sense to purchase such vehicles. Will there be a conflict of interest if such vehicles are sent for pre purchase inspection?

Originally Posted by arsenalfan

I have a Toyota Camry hybrid 2017 model, gives 11-12 kmpl in Bangalore traffic. The new 2022 version gives 18kmpl is what I have heard from friends. Yes, the ground clearance is probably 155mm and might scrape a tall speed breaker if you don't drive it properly. But I wouldn't say it's underpowered; rides beautifully on highways and even in the ghats (took it to Ooty before the monsoons).

Why bother about badge value if you like the car?

The Camry ticks most of my boxes. Also, it would be a new vehicle so peace of mind would definitely be there. Can it me remapped so power output is enhanced?


I think the manufacturers should provide laden ground clearance figures for designed load so that we can make decisions much more easily as the it would depend upon the firmness of the suspension setup as well. I suspect that the laden GC of cars equipped with air suspensions might be better than those with standard suspensions. The only downside of air suspension is the cost associated when it is replaced. How many kilometers are air suspensions expected to last?

[dieselhead01]

Originally Posted by maverick6106

Nice pics of your car. She is indeed a beauty and must be a hoot to drive. It's because of posts like yours, my first preference is the 3 liter diesel. The only thing that stops me from going ahead is the perceived lack of GC. Any idea about the difference in laden ground clearance between 530D/630D? There are multiple videos on Youtube about how BMW diesels use plastic parts and their rubber hoses which harden and disintegrate over time. How has your experience been in this regard? Are Mercedes engines built to better standards?

Thank you for the kind words, the 3L diesel from Bavaria is just at another whole new level. Moreover the GC for both 630D and 530D, would be more or less 140mm. And honestly, the Mercedes interiors are better than that of BMWs, the words ‘luxurious/premium’ is written all over it. But when it comes to the engine and performance, it’s not even close. The 530D G30 is the one of the fastest cars under one crore, and takes diesel performance to another new level. Took a previous gen E350D for a spin, coming from a remapped Octavia TDI owner, it didn’t feel like an upgrade, and meanwhile when I took a brief drive of the G30 530D, it had me at goosebumps and shock. I’d suggest, just take that ‘leap of faith’ and get the 530D, nothing comes close.