will installing a turbo charger Compensate power loss from CNG

Fl|rty · 30th August 2006, 18:57

Hi,

i have been doing this research for long on how to compensate the power loss caused by CNG which is a dry fuel in nature. as of now i havnt find any support in that.. but couple of thing that comes to mind are, will adding :-

1) K&N air filter
2) Free FLow exaust
3) single turbo charger
4) high performance spark plug

can compensate the power loss or will they harm the engine for CNG being the Dry Gas ?

any inputs will help

// Fl|rty

bkahive · 31st August 2006, 16:14

@ Fl|rty
High performance spark plugs will help but will not fulfil your requirement. Instead go for tuning of your CNG kit. If it is properly tuned such as air/gas mixture is set properly, power loss is reduced to minimal. If you could kindly tell me your car type such as EFI etc, I may be able to elaborate further.

Keep one thing in mind though, at best 5-10% power loss is always there for CNG.

Regards,
bkahive

Fl|rty · 31st August 2006, 16:49

thanks for the info Bkahive..

i have '05 baleno done 7000 KM.. though as of now i havt retrofied it with CNG. but will be doing so very soon after getting its 3rd service done this sat.

i think adding the air filter and comple air intake and exaust makeover can fill the gap between CNG and petrol though i am not looking for a peak performance or very high performance but i guess if i can get around 15-20 More HP then that can compensate the power loss.

on older car there is extra loss of power cause of old spark plug, old clutch plates etc.. apart from burning CNG..

for air mixture i have K&N stock air filter..

wats you call on this ??

R32_GTR · 31st August 2006, 17:11

Honestly....for the amount you will be spending on a Turbo set up....

fill your car up with some decent petrol...and enjoy it!!!!

wolfinstein · 2nd September 2006, 20:42

Instead of Turbo C, Get a Free Flow system done from Auto Mech would cost around 12- 15,000 considering thats what manveet paid for his OHC.

Basic improvements can be made by By getting nice cool air into the throttle, Suggest you go for side vents or bonnet vents to enhance cool air intake and also cool the engine..!+ Free Flow would be a better combo..!

I think Mico Bosch had launched the CNG 4 Node Spark plugs, You may want to search for them...Even Iridium or NGK have special CNG plugs..but they are expensive though.

Advanced Timer or Lamda ECU system for the CNG Kit, To enhance Pickup and FE.

So In all if you get all of these done, It might cost around 25 K or Less.

Also you could look into Alloy wheels to reduce overall weight...! Unless your Baleno has them.

Fl|rty · 4th September 2006, 10:30

yep.. infact i did some research on them.. but wasnt able to find any special CNG plugs.. all i got was NGK...

i have given my car for the CNG conversion.. no one was willing to convert my car into CNG as my car is a EURO III and no one is athorised to fit the KIT.. but then i heard abt nugas and they were willing to fill the kit without voiding the gurantee of my car.. will be piking up the delivry of my car today..

then will be going directly for NGK plugs.... i have exausted all the money so probably will be going for cool airintake next month once i get my salary.. this Kit costed my whooping 45k just for kit.. will be shelling out another 2k for RC and and some 1k for insurance but that all will be done in another coupleof months once the norms match..

alloys.. yep i went to karol bagh yesterday for alloys.. seen 17 inchers plus 205 kumho all costing me some 25k.. i guess next month will get those..

//Fl|rty

wolfinstein · 4th September 2006, 10:50

seems like you din't search the market well enough, Bedini Kits are Euro 3 ready, Sold by Shrimanker in Okhla. They are authorised fitters by TATA. Any CNG system you got will void warranty unless offered by the company itself..Maruti as of now does not offer any warranty for CNG converted Cars, The only exceptions are GM Chev Optra,HM-Mitsubishi Lancer,TATA-Xeta and Marina( All these cars have Euro 3 norms and Euro 3 ready kits)
I hope you got the Advanced Timer or Lamda controller.

Plugs, I really don't know how effective they are, However cool air intake will def help, along with Free flow system.

Fl|rty · 4th September 2006, 11:10

OK.. i accept that i was a lil bit of a lazy *** over the weekend.. after comming home at 6 in the morning from office and after spending nearly 18 hours at office i was dead tired so. yes i did tried my level best..

about the warranty... saya motors will fit the KIT with all the warranty intact.. they said there will be no wire cutting this is a plug n play kit all they have to do is drill the boot to fix the cylynder,, rest the kit will be installed without much of fuss.. which will in no way void the warranty of my car.. there will be some certificate that they will provide... and they have given me shurity that the warranty will not be nulled after getting my car converted to CNG.. PLUS an option that if i wanna sell my car i can remove the CNG kit.. get the NEW RC done.. and sell it..

all i can do is HOPE that the person there wasnt bluffing..

//Fl|rty

Fl|rty · 5th September 2006, 14:52

Hey wat will be the cost of lambda controller for CNG and where can i get it .. ? along with if u have any idea abt the pricing of advanced timer..

will they void any warranty on my vechile..

i got my car converted this sunday.. will write a first hand experience abt the conversion in a while..

// Fl|rty

Shan2nu · 5th September 2006, 15:43

I don't get it. The only reason people buy CNG over Gasoline is to make the car cheaper to run.

But by trying to compensate for the power, you're spending a lot more, just to match a petrol cars performance.

Even with all your efforts, how much gain do you expect?

And even if you succeed, what FE and maintenance would that add up to?

The rule is simple. If your car in a CNG, don't touch it. Use it the way it's supposed to be used.

Shan2nu

Fl|rty · 5th September 2006, 18:03

i can easily recover the cost of the kit withen 9-10 month so after that its all saving ... and then with that saving i can spend that on my hobbies..

if i install a lambda controller which if i am right in guessing will cost me around 10-15k .. again i can recover its cost in another 2-3 months.. wont be a problem..

its all abut experimenting yaar.. just wanna feel the same power and pick up with CNG based engine. i guess thats worth it..

nitrous · 5th September 2006, 19:14

A turbo charger install would cost upwards of Rs.200,000.
Are u still interested??

Shan2nu · 5th September 2006, 19:55

Quote:

its all abut experimenting yaar.. just wanna feel the same power and pick up with CNG based engine. i guess thats worth it..

It is definately worth it, as long you consider it an experiment or rather, personal achievement.

But practicality has nothing to do with it.

Shan2nu

Fl|rty · 6th September 2006, 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrous

A turbo charger install would cost upwards of Rs.200,000.
Are u still interested??

2 lacks you must be kidding me.. when i was there in new jersy i came accross a garage which was ready to turbo charge the engine ranging from $400 to $1500 plus some lil expanses for around $100

shantnu .. advice taken..

harmon_bro · 6th September 2006, 14:24

Guys,

Is it safe to have a Free Flow exhaust on a LPG fuled car? I was told that its a little dicey to drive a LPG fuled car to run with FreeFlow exhaust.

30th August 2006, 18:57	#1
Fl\|rty Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: delhi Posts: 19 Thanked: 0 Times	Hi, i have been doing this research for long on how to compensate the power loss caused by CNG which is a dry fuel in nature. as of now i havnt find any support in that.. but couple of thing that comes to mind are, will adding :- 1) K&N air filter 2) Free FLow exaust 3) single turbo charger 4) high performance spark plug can compensate the power loss or will they harm the engine for CNG being the Dry Gas ? any inputs will help // Fl\|rty
	() Thanks

31st August 2006, 16:14	#2
bkahive Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 5 Thanked: 0 Times	@ Fl\|rty High performance spark plugs will help but will not fulfil your requirement. Instead go for tuning of your CNG kit. If it is properly tuned such as air/gas mixture is set properly, power loss is reduced to minimal. If you could kindly tell me your car type such as EFI etc, I may be able to elaborate further. Keep one thing in mind though, at best 5-10% power loss is always there for CNG. Regards, bkahive
	() Thanks

31st August 2006, 16:49	#3
Fl\|rty Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: delhi Posts: 19 Thanked: 0 Times	thanks for the info Bkahive.. i have '05 baleno done 7000 KM.. though as of now i havt retrofied it with CNG. but will be doing so very soon after getting its 3rd service done this sat. i think adding the air filter and comple air intake and exaust makeover can fill the gap between CNG and petrol though i am not looking for a peak performance or very high performance but i guess if i can get around 15-20 More HP then that can compensate the power loss. on older car there is extra loss of power cause of old spark plug, old clutch plates etc.. apart from burning CNG.. for air mixture i have K&N stock air filter.. wats you call on this ??
	() Thanks

31st August 2006, 17:11	#4
R32_GTR BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Bombay Posts: 549 Thanked: 201 Times View My Garage	Honestly....for the amount you will be spending on a Turbo set up.... fill your car up with some decent petrol...and enjoy it!!!!
	() Thanks

2nd September 2006, 20:42	#5
wolfinstein BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 994 Thanked: 20 Times	Instead of Turbo C, Get a Free Flow system done from Auto Mech would cost around 12- 15,000 considering thats what manveet paid for his OHC. Basic improvements can be made by By getting nice cool air into the throttle, Suggest you go for side vents or bonnet vents to enhance cool air intake and also cool the engine..!+ Free Flow would be a better combo..! I think Mico Bosch had launched the CNG 4 Node Spark plugs, You may want to search for them...Even Iridium or NGK have special CNG plugs..but they are expensive though. Advanced Timer or Lamda ECU system for the CNG Kit, To enhance Pickup and FE. So In all if you get all of these done, It might cost around 25 K or Less. Also you could look into Alloy wheels to reduce overall weight...! Unless your Baleno has them. Last edited by wolfinstein : 2nd September 2006 at 20:44.
	() Thanks

4th September 2006, 10:30	#6
Fl\|rty Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: delhi Posts: 19 Thanked: 0 Times	yep.. infact i did some research on them.. but wasnt able to find any special CNG plugs.. all i got was NGK... i have given my car for the CNG conversion.. no one was willing to convert my car into CNG as my car is a EURO III and no one is athorised to fit the KIT.. but then i heard abt nugas and they were willing to fill the kit without voiding the gurantee of my car.. will be piking up the delivry of my car today.. then will be going directly for NGK plugs.... i have exausted all the money so probably will be going for cool airintake next month once i get my salary.. this Kit costed my whooping 45k just for kit.. will be shelling out another 2k for RC and and some 1k for insurance but that all will be done in another coupleof months once the norms match.. alloys.. yep i went to karol bagh yesterday for alloys.. seen 17 inchers plus 205 kumho all costing me some 25k.. i guess next month will get those.. //Fl\|rty
	() Thanks

4th September 2006, 10:50	#7
wolfinstein BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 994 Thanked: 20 Times	seems like you din't search the market well enough, Bedini Kits are Euro 3 ready, Sold by Shrimanker in Okhla. They are authorised fitters by TATA. Any CNG system you got will void warranty unless offered by the company itself..Maruti as of now does not offer any warranty for CNG converted Cars, The only exceptions are GM Chev Optra,HM-Mitsubishi Lancer,TATA-Xeta and Marina( All these cars have Euro 3 norms and Euro 3 ready kits) I hope you got the Advanced Timer or Lamda controller. Plugs, I really don't know how effective they are, However cool air intake will def help, along with Free flow system. Last edited by wolfinstein : 4th September 2006 at 10:51.
	() Thanks

4th September 2006, 11:10	#8
Fl\|rty Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: delhi Posts: 19 Thanked: 0 Times	OK.. i accept that i was a lil bit of a lazy *** over the weekend.. after comming home at 6 in the morning from office and after spending nearly 18 hours at office i was dead tired so. yes i did tried my level best.. about the warranty... saya motors will fit the KIT with all the warranty intact.. they said there will be no wire cutting this is a plug n play kit all they have to do is drill the boot to fix the cylynder,, rest the kit will be installed without much of fuss.. which will in no way void the warranty of my car.. there will be some certificate that they will provide... and they have given me shurity that the warranty will not be nulled after getting my car converted to CNG.. PLUS an option that if i wanna sell my car i can remove the CNG kit.. get the NEW RC done.. and sell it.. all i can do is HOPE that the person there wasnt bluffing.. //Fl\|rty
	() Thanks

5th September 2006, 14:52	#9
Fl\|rty Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: delhi Posts: 19 Thanked: 0 Times	Hey wat will be the cost of lambda controller for CNG and where can i get it .. ? along with if u have any idea abt the pricing of advanced timer.. will they void any warranty on my vechile.. i got my car converted this sunday.. will write a first hand experience abt the conversion in a while.. // Fl\|rty
	() Thanks

5th September 2006, 15:43	#10
Shan2nu Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli - Karnata Posts: 5,533 Thanked: 127 Times View My Garage	I don't get it. The only reason people buy CNG over Gasoline is to make the car cheaper to run. But by trying to compensate for the power, you're spending a lot more, just to match a petrol cars performance. Even with all your efforts, how much gain do you expect? And even if you succeed, what FE and maintenance would that add up to? The rule is simple. If your car in a CNG, don't touch it. Use it the way it's supposed to be used. Shan2nu
	() Thanks

5th September 2006, 18:03	#11
Fl\|rty Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: delhi Posts: 19 Thanked: 0 Times	i can easily recover the cost of the kit withen 9-10 month so after that its all saving ... and then with that saving i can spend that on my hobbies.. if i install a lambda controller which if i am right in guessing will cost me around 10-15k .. again i can recover its cost in another 2-3 months.. wont be a problem.. its all abut experimenting yaar.. just wanna feel the same power and pick up with CNG based engine. i guess thats worth it..
	() Thanks

5th September 2006, 19:14	#12
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 333 Times View My Garage	A turbo charger install would cost upwards of Rs.200,000. Are u still interested??
	() Thanks

6th September 2006, 14:24	#15
harmon_bro BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Madras Posts: 543 Thanked: 29 Times	Guys, Is it safe to have a Free Flow exhaust on a LPG fuled car? I was told that its a little dicey to drive a LPG fuled car to run with FreeFlow exhaust. Last edited by harmon_bro : 6th September 2006 at 14:26.
	() Thanks