[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by Epic

The thought does cross my mind every now and then to move back to the stock springs.

Hey Epic, it's been quite a few months since you last updated. Would like to know if you changed your opinion after this much time?

[Epic]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Hey Epic, it's been quite a few months since you last updated. Would like to know if you changed your opinion after this much time?

I have been given to understand that lowered springs must be installed with 'matching' struts. These struts are usually shorter than OEM. Having lowered springs installed with OEM struts are not the ideal situation and will lack a bit of confidence in handling which I am currently facing. Due to the lowered springs, the OEM struts are by default compressed to sit in them where as this is not how it is supposed to be.

The question is, which are those matching struts and are they worth the cost if you are driving in the city?

So no change in opinion yet.

[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by Epic

I have been given to understand that lowered springs must be installed with 'matching' struts. These struts are usually shorter than OEM. Having lowered springs installed with OEM struts are not the ideal situation and will lack a bit of confidence in handling which I am currently facing. Due to the lowered springs, the OEM struts are by default compressed to sit in them where as this is not how it is supposed to be.

The question is, which are those matching struts and are they worth the cost if you are driving in the city?

So no change in opinion yet.

I did lot of exercise to get the things right on my 2011 TDI Polo with the new Sachs sturts by combining them with stock springs and then with the Cobras.

My issue mainly is that my wheels got pushed back after the suspension overhaul and still not rectified despite various exercises. Now only thing remains is the arms which are old with new bushes:

Before and after suspension overhaul photos with stock springs:



Coming back to Cobras...

My finding is that Cobra springs are shorter but not stiffer, they are comfort oriented compared to the old type stiff stock springs. Not sure how long they will be able to hold their weight rating.

if you are combining them with Sachs struts then you need to install single spacer below the bearing. If you do not have it then your spring will not touch the top cap resulting into a rattle when springs are unloaded. Check by pressing the strut with spring installed, there will be a rattle of gap.

Spacers used to come only in the TDI Polos and petrol Polos did not have them so I guess your Polo also not have them.

Pictures will speak the rest:

Spacers installed by VW in 1.2 TDI:




Effect of different combinations, middle one is correct for the Cobra AMRPOLO35 Springs installed on Sachs 314717 struts, if no spacers then the top cap will not touch the springs, the gap is not visible, you can only feel if you press the strut with your hands few times:

[Epic]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

I did lot of exercise to get the things right on my 2011 TDI Polo with the new Sachs sturts by combining them with stock springs and then with the Cobras.

You are God sent. I was anyway going to ask for help here regarding my ride and handling issue.

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

My issue mainly is that my wheels got pushed back after the suspension overhaul and still not rectified despite various exercises. Now only thing remains is the arms which are old with new bushes

The question here is why did your wheels get pushed back only after the overhaul?

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Coming back to Cobras...

My finding is that Cobra springs are shorter but not stiffer, they are comfort oriented compared to the old type stiff stock springs. Not sure how long they will be able to hold their weight rating.

There are very few users who have a positive thing to say about Cobra springs. Most say they are the worst among the brands available. I guess it is a personal choice. I am not sure yet which is true as I haven't experienced others. But Ive not been very happy with the way the car rides or handles. The ride is not very comfortable and handling at higher speeds (80-100 kmph) can shake your confidence a bit. The stock set up was better.

I am trying to solve these two issues.

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

if you are combining them with Sachs struts then you need to install single spacer below the bearing. If you do not have it then your spring will not touch the top cap resulting into a rattle when springs are unloaded. Check by pressing the strut with spring installed, there will be a rattle of gap.

Spacers used to come only in the TDI Polos and petrol Polos did not have them so I guess your Polo also not have them.

Are these spacers required for the front as well as the rear? Are these spacers available at the ASC?

I seem to have found them on Boodmo https://boodmo.com/catalog/part-6r0412311-28494648/

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Effect of different combinations, middle one is correct for the Cobra AMRPOLO35 Springs installed on Sachs 314717 struts, if no spacers then the top cap will not touch the springs, the gap is not visible, you can only feel if you press the strut with your hands few times:

Are you suggesting that my problem is simply because of these missing caps?

[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by Epic

The question here is why did your wheels get pushed back only after the overhaul?

No clue, I have done many rounds everywhere, have spent lot of time and money and asked on the forum as well in many threads but no finding yet. This was the reason I ended up uninstalling and re-installing the suspension three times. Had been to alignment point thrice, they also could not figure out anything wrong, car drives perfectly fine except the wheels touching the back side of the fenders sometimes.

If installation of any of the new part has potential to mess up with the wheel position then if should have made more changes when I did the re-installation exercise two more times, I even swapped the left and right struts during the last garage visit but the wheels remained at the same position.

I installed new link road with stock dimensions, not sure if the shorter link rod can make a difference here. But then others also have installed same setup with stock spec link rods without any issues.

Now only suspect remains is either the fitting of the cross member which was needed to be disassembled to install the steering rack, or the lower control arms which were kept older with the the new bushes. Bush orientation is crucial in the VWs which also seems to be fine visually. It maybe possible that the arms have bends in them which were not prominent with the older bushes and came into notice after the new bushes which are not allowing much movements. Just a wild guess and I wish this comes true so that I can sort it out by replacing the arms and it doesn't turn out anything bigger.

Strangely the wheels were in the center before the suspension overhaul.

A regular service visit is due at the VW ASC, will do the remaining math at there, gonna cost more.

There are very few users who have a positive thing to say about Cobra springs. Most say they are the worst among the brands available. I guess it is a personal choice.

Eibach pro kit springs should be ideal fit on the Polo for those who prioritize handling over comfort. Those are tried, tested and approved product in Europe.

But Ive not been very happy with the way the car rides or handles. The ride is not very comfortable and handling at higher speeds (80-100 kmph) can shake your confidence a bit. The stock set up was better.

I am trying to solve these two issues.

I believe preloading the front Cobra springs with the spacers should make you feel happy. I wonder so many people installed the Cobra springs and no one could yet figured out the need of the spacers for these shorter springs when installed with Sachs struts.

Another option is to install the Sachs struts with the stock springs without spacers which anyway have to get compressed and preloaded in the struts even without the spacers, but those will also raise the height of car.

Are these spacers required for the front as well as the rear?

No spacers at the rear.

If you want to tighten up the rear end further then adding rear sway bar could be more practical option which comes with three settings to adjust the stiffness of the sway bar (not the stiffness of the suspension). Although I am not sure how much difference will it make on a street car at the legal speeds, I am still studying about it. Suhaas has added one, you may read about it in his thread.

Are these spacers available at the ASC?

I seem to have found them on Boodmo https://boodmo.com/catalog/part-6r0412311-28494648/

Yes, this is the one and also available at ASC.

Are you suggesting that my problem is simply because of these missing caps?

Believe me, they make remarkable difference on how the car feels. They are not just small bits, they are preloading the springs by making them shorter inside the struts by 10 mm with every spacer added.

My car came with single spacer each side from the factory, the stance was flat with even wheel gaps in the arches. Later VW recalled TDI Polos and added the second spacer after getting lot of complaints about the oil sumps bursting in the 1.2 TDI. Result was car height got raised and the suspension started feeling more stiffer.

I remember how the seating position felt raised to me that time. Underbelly scrapping became the thing of the past with the stiffer and raised front end and I started driving the car over anything, I loved overtaking others on the bad roads. But the stance and that car-like-feeling got messed up.

If you are feeling the car softer then adding the spacer should definitely sort it out since the Cobra front springs are too short to fit firmly without the spacers in the Sachs struts, you may even consider adding 2 of them on each strut but that may result into the front end feeling almost like the tractor-trolley which have wheels fitted directly on the chassis without any suspension.

Maybe your experience is slightly different since the front end of your car is good 50+ kg lighter than mine if I am not wrong. And this weight difference makes your car feel more softer compared to mine where additional 50+ kg in mine acts as natural preload on the same struts+springs. I am not sure if this difference is equal to one additional spacer.

After driving the car with two spacers for a while, I must say that the car started cornering like a dream when I had them. It was too sharp and precise at the cost of lost comfort. I gained the comfort after removing one spacer but also added bit of body roll. Although nose dive effect is still negligible.

I can consider adding two spacers if I need to sharpen my car further or when the struts or springs start loosing the stiffness after few years.

The time and money spent on the whole exercise taught me a lot.

Now I feel like getting that Polo back which I bought in 2011 (except the wheel position issue which need to be sorted out, the left side front wheel is much more pushed backwards).

Check out the photos...
Sachs+stock springs at top and Sachs+Cobra AMRPOLO35 with single spacer at bottom which was the original stance my car had when bought in 2011 which got messed up after adding the second spacer by VW:

[Epic]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

No clue, I have done many rounds everywhere, have spent lot of time and money and asked on the forum as well in many threads but no finding yet.

This is a very odd case. If you are located in Mumbai, I can suggest a good FNG where I get my work done. Maybe he can help.

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Eibach pro kit springs should be ideal fit on the Polo for those who prioritize handling over comfort. Those are tried, tested and approved product in Europe.

Again, I drive in Mumbai city that don't have the best roads. I was fully aware that installing lowered springs would compromise the comfort but I did not expect it to be uncomfortable or lacking driving confidence. I was actually considering the Eibach Pro Kit, but was not sure if the outcome would be better or worse than the current setup.

I had the following options:
1. Replace the springs to Eibach Pro Kit / MTS / H&R
2. Change to Coil Overs
3. Go back to stock

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

I believe preloading the front Cobra springs with the spacers should make you feel happy. I wonder so many people installed the Cobra springs and no one could yet figured out the need of the spacers for these shorter springs when installed with Sachs struts.

If this is going to make an improvement in the comfort and handling then this would be great.

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Another option is to install the Sachs struts with the stock springs without spacers which anyway have to get compressed and preloaded in the struts even without the spacers, but those will also raise the height of car.

I am not even sure if my car came with these spacers. Moving back to stock springs with Sachs struts would just like going back to OEM, isn't it?

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Yes, this is the one and also available at ASC.

Believe me, they make remarkable difference on how the car feels. They are not just small bits, they are preloading the springs by making them shorter inside the struts by 10 mm with every spacer added.

Ordered for Boodmo already.

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

I remember how the seating position felt raised to me that time. Underbelly scrapping became the thing of the past with the stiffer and raised front end and I started driving the car over anything, I loved overtaking others on the bad roads. But the stance and that car-like-feeling got messed up.

When you say stiffer, did the car rattle over uneven roads or was it tight and were able to take the uneven roads with ease?

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

If you are feeling the car softer then adding the spacer should definitely sort it out since the Cobra front springs are too short to fit firmly without the spacers in the Sachs struts, you may even consider adding 2 of them on each strut but that may result into the front end feeling almost like the tractor-trolley which have wheels fitted directly on the chassis without any suspension.

I can't say they are soft, I think they bottom out at times. Im not really sure.

[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by Epic

This is a very odd case. If you are located in Mumbai, I can suggest a good FNG where I get my work done. Maybe he can help.

I am in Jaipur. Maybe you ask for his suggestion on my issue during your next visit?

If this is going to make an improvement in the comfort and handling then this would be great.

Nose dive and body roll will reduce after adding the spacers and stiffness will increase slightly. Make sure the orientation is correct while installing. The flat part stays upside and the bearing sits over it. The side with the extruded ring at the inner circle is the bottom side, the ring goes inside the strut cap.

I think you got fed up of the nose dive effect when you cross big humps and associating it with the comfort. That annoying behavior is due to the softness of the suspension which will be reduced by preloading the spring using these spacers.

Check the photo below to understand the size difference of the same spring with and without the spacers. Strut length remains same but the spring size gets reduced after adding the spacers resulting into adding some stiffness to these soft springs. Though we are going to add only single spacer, you can add one more if you feel the need of stiffening further.

I am not even sure if my car came with these spacers.

Most probably not, petrol Polos did not have these spacers. Even compare the height of your Polo's front with mine, yours is more lowered with the same struts and springs combo despite being lighter than mine, that confirms there is no spacer in yours.

These spacers were used as cheap solution by VW to eliminate the need of different springs and struts for the heavier diesel variants of Polo. Later they found that one is not enough so added one more.

Moving back to stock springs with Sachs struts would just like going back to OEM, isn't it?

Well, not exactly. IMO the body roll and nose dive effect is still reduced with the Sachs struts.

When you say stiffer, did the car rattle over uneven roads or was it tight and were able to take the uneven roads with ease?

Have you changed all the rubber parts like the mounts, bushes etc during the suspension overhaul? They make significant difference in reducing the rattles.

You may also consider playing with different air pressure in the tyres to reduce the rattles.

In my car, there is one permanent vibration noise (metallic) coming from the right front door side at certain low speeds which remains there despite whatever I do to eliminate it, except that there are no new rattles yet. But road imperfection are felt more prominently during the drives in the city, though not bothersome.

I reserve my opinion about the high speed behavior until I have few long drives on different highways.

I can't say they are soft, I think they bottom out at times. Im not really sure.

This issue of bottoming out was the exact reason VW added another spacer in the diesel Polos which made them more stiffer and reduced the cases of oil sump damage by restricting the nose-dive.

[Epic]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

I am in Jaipur. Maybe you ask for his suggestion on my issue during your next visit?

I definitely will.

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Nose dive and body roll will reduce after adding the spacers and stiffness will increase slightly. Make sure the orientation is correct while installing. The flat part stays upside and the bearing sits over it. The side with the extruded ring at the inner circle is the bottom side, the ring goes inside the strut cap.

Thank you for the heads up.

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Have you changed all the rubber parts like the mounts, bushes etc during the suspension overhaul? They make significant difference in reducing the rattles.

Yes all rubber parts have been changed during the suspension overhaul. I don't have rattles while driving. Minor rattles over bad roads or rumblers.

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

You may also consider playing with different air pressure in the tyres to reduce the rattles.

My tyre pressure is set to 30 psi.

[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by Epic

I definitely will.

Finally my issue got fixed at VW.




It turned out wrongly fitted ball joints. Left one was installed in the right arm and vise versa. This blunder was done when L and R are clearly mentioned on the ball joints.

I might have had to pay for the complete arm set but one technician guessed to reverse the ball joints and the blunder came into the notice.

One thing I learnt in this whole exercise that we must have some knowledge of the car parts and installation before attempting something non-standard or while doing some mods.

Yes all rubber parts have been changed during the suspension overhaul. I don't have rattles while driving. Minor rattles over bad roads or rumblers.

Check the bump stop length and see how much gap they leave for the struts to travel when the car is grounded. I think we have to also cut down the bump stops, specially the rear ones to allow adequate travel.

One BHPian pointed this out when did same in his Fabia. According to him bump stops are harder at top and softer at the bottom. So ideal cutting should be 1/3rd from the top ring and 2/3rd from the lower ring. Cutting size may differ with different cars.

My tyre pressure is set to 30 psi.

30 should be comfortable but also try upto 35.