[doomsday]

Originally Posted by theexister

I believe the need for performance tune-up is the important factor. Tune-up appetite would only grow if there is a maturing racing scene across the country.
The only racing tracks I have heard of India are in & around Chennai & Delhi so this makes if difficult for serious drivers to have a track day in short lead time. It requires careful planning & there is the cost factor.

Last time I checked; there was no race-track in or around Delhi. Unless you count the proposed F1 track in Noida.

Originally Posted by theexister

I am pretty sure that there could be geometric increases in tune-up requests once we see racing developing across various cities in India.

On a serious note; you are right. An increase in the number of race-tracks open to public in India has to go up if one wants serious mods/tuning to become popular. The two race-tracks in India which are open to public are down south, and pretty restricted access means you can't just take your ride every weekend and head to the track.(That is if you have the mind to spend in the first place). Although this is getting better recently, with initiatives especially from some Bangalore and Combi members and as a result track-days are happening more frequently.

Originally Posted by Harbir

While I don't disagree with you, because I do not understand the Indian enthusiast very well, I do have some reservations about what you say.

If your civic could put down 200hp at the front wheels (compared to perhaps 85hp now), and could have handling and braking to match, you would not be interested? You would not even say "depends on the price"?

Are you suggesting a FWD 85 bhp car modded to put down over 200 bhp? If yes, there are very few tuners in India (if there are any) that can claim to see such an extensive mod job through successfully. Some efforts just end up with extensive damages and a lot of time and money being wasted and ultimately the tunee is back to a stock setup with stage 1 mods.

Originally Posted by Harbir

I have trouble imagining that nobody at all in India would want a 150hp Swift or a 200hp Civic unless they were going racing. I understand that 99.999% of the people would not, but are you saying that not even .001% of the public has interest in boosting up their cars? Even if not forced induction and/or bore/stroke/head jobs, not even mild performance tuningd?

Yeah. No one would be interested in getting his Swift or Civic modded to that level unless they plan to participate in the Speed Run. More so as I mentioned above, lack of credible tuners plays a major role. FYI, it is the only organized national level drag event in India. (Here in Bangalore, enthusiasts are still waiting for the Speed Run to happen, it was initially scrapped because of some unfortunate accidents that happened last year)

On the other hand, for the street, an intake/exhaust job+rubber and wheel upgrade is deemed enough by some enthusiasts. Any more fiddling means that the tuner really needs to know what he is doing; so does the tunee. And to be frank the level of tuning awareness in an average enthusiast is still in its nascent stage here in India.

Originally Posted by Harbir

I just have trouble believing that because it would mean that Indian enthusiasts are just interested in nice rims, fancy ICE, K&N filters, and other superficial stuff.

But like I said, I've been removed from it too long and have a very different perspective on things so I am not saying at all that my view is right.

I ask respectfully since its not my intention to barge in here and start talking like I know it all.

cheers!

All these queries can be answered if you can define the term "enthusiast". No offense to anyone, but I'm sorry to say that even someone who upsizes the rims and rubber on his ride is termed as an enthusiast in India.

[Shan2nu]

If your civic could put down 200hp at the front wheels (compared to perhaps 85hp now), and could have handling and braking to match, you would not be interested? You would not even say "depends on the price"?

I think you meant City (Coz the Civic is 132bhp stock). And yes, there are people like Rocam (Jitu) who will go to the extent of plonking a 170bhp B16 engine in an OHC chassis that housed a 90bhp engine once. But then again, he did it with the intention of taking part in drag events.

I have trouble imagining that nobody at all in India would want a 150hp Swift or a 200hp Civic unless they were going racing. I understand that 99.999% of the people would not, but are you saying that not even .001% of the public has interest in boosting up their cars? Even if not forced induction and/or bore/stroke/head jobs, not even mild performance tuningd?

No they wouldn't. Most of the people who mod their cars extensively, do take part in drag events.

I just have trouble believing that because it would mean that Indian enthusiasts are just interested in nice rims, fancy ICE, K&N filters, and other superficial stuff.

Generally speaking yes. Very few would go to the extent of altering the internals of the engine and not use it in drags or circuit racing.

But like I said, I've been removed from it too long and have a very different perspective on things so I am not saying at all that my view is right.

I ask respectfully since its not my intention to barge in here and start talking like I know it all.

Just go through the modifcations topic on this forum. You'll get the pic.

Shan2nu

[gemballa]

dont agree wit u guys..... i tune all my cars...and my swift should be close to 150 bhp next week and never been to or a drag or want to go.

and if there was a place tht tuned as good as crazy racing in hong kong or rc developments in uk then i would be sending all my cars and im sure my friend circle too would go...

at the moment no one ventures cause of reliability factor and the over supply of mickey mouse mix and match tuners so if u had a 150 hp swift with a sweet interior and 100% reliability made under one room im sure there will be many takers...

[paras211]

gemballa 150 n/a is really impressive. what compression? y dont you dyno?
btw how s the standalone??

[Shan2nu]

dont agree wit u guys..... i tune all my cars...and my swift should be close to 150 bhp next week and never been to or a drag or want to go.

There are guys like you dude no doubt, but how many?

at the moment no one ventures cause of reliability factor and the over supply of mickey mouse mix and match tuners so if u had a 150 hp swift with a sweet interior and 100% reliability made under one room im sure there will be many takers...

Thats true. And thats the reason why most Indians stay away from serious tuning.

The tuning scene in India is like a "Black Forest" cake lying on the floor. You know you're hungry, but you prob just lost your appetite.

Shan2nu

[GSHA]

@Harbir:

Give me a Mitsubishi EVO - I will buy it.

Give me a 4G92 for my Lancer Cedia - I will not take it.

It is the reliability after a mod that counts the most for me.

I don't go racing. I haven't driven on a race track. I use my car on a daily basis. If I want a more powerful car, I would take it "stock".

Reason: I am yet to find a tuner in India who would guarantee the reliability on daily runs. Of course, I am willing to limit my expectations to 1Lakh km life (instead of the 2Lakh+ km of a stock car) due to any mods. But, then, I expect my ride not to conk off on my long drives.

[doomsday]

Originally Posted by gemballa

dont agree wit u guys..... i tune all my cars...and my swift should be close to 150 bhp next week and never been to or a drag or want to go.

and if there was a place tht tuned as good as crazy racing in hong kong or rc developments in uk then i would be sending all my cars and im sure my friend circle too would go...

at the moment no one ventures cause of reliability factor and the over supply of mickey mouse mix and match tuners so if u had a 150 hp swift with a sweet interior and 100% reliability made under one room im sure there will be many takers...

Originally Posted by paras211

gemballa 150 n/a is really impressive. what compression? y dont you dyno?
btw how s the standalone??

Dude I don't think gembella has mentioned that his swift is 150 horses NA. It is safe to say that it is impossible to get 150 horses out of the G13 staying NA and being a daily driver. So most probably the car will be TC'd.

@gembella: It would be great if you can dyno ur ride once it reaches the claimed mark next week. Also a detailed report of the turbo(s) used with the boost, internals etc. will be of much interest and appreciated.

[V-16]

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

I think you meant City (Coz the Civic is 132bhp stock). And yes, there are people like Rocam (Jitu) who will go to the extent of plonking a 170bhp B16 engine in an OHC chassis that housed a 90bhp engine once. But then again, he did it with the intention of taking part in drag events.
Shan2nu

There are many many people whom i personally know of who will go to modding heights but will not take part in a drag or an event. I for one would not prefer to take part if i would heavily mod my car as my car is my car, for my enjoyment and is not modded with the intention of pitting it against someone else's but thats just my opinion, then again i might get carried away and take part... See Gemballa, hes one of us who dont mod for the case of competition. Theres something called self satisfaction
There are so many hybrids around. I know of at least 4 OHCs plonked with B16As and one even turbo'ed but these do not even come to the drag events. Similarly so many conversions of Lancers to Evos by plonking Evo kits.
Also just to inform you Shan2nu, Jitu aka Ford Rocam uses his Hybrid OHC (with a B16A and what not) as a daily drive too. It was not only meant to be a drag car although it has turned out as one with the level of mods and the bhp it puts out. He uses it everyday.

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

No they wouldn't. Most of the people who mod their cars extensively, do take part in drag events.
Shan2nu

Well not most.. but some surely would.

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

Generally speaking yes. Very few would go to the extent of altering the internals of the engine and not use it in drags or circuit racing.
Just go through the modifications topic on this forum. You'll get the pic.
Shan2nu

I agree but then the number of such people are rising and there are a lot of these guys around.

[Shan2nu]

There are many many people whom i personally know of who will go to modding heights but will not take part in a drag or an event. I for one would not prefer to take part if i would heavily mod my car as my car is my car, for my enjoyment and is not modded with the intention of pitting it against someone else's but thats just my opinion, then again i might get carried away and take part... See Gemballa, hes one of us who dont mod for the case of competition. Theres something called self satisfaction
There are so many hybrids around. I know of at least 4 OHCs plonked with B16As and one even turbo'ed but these do not even come to the drag events. Similarly so many conversions of Lancers to Evos by plonking Evo kits.
Also just to inform you Shan2nu, Jitu aka Ford Rocam uses his Hybrid OHC (with a B16A and what not) as a daily drive too. It was not only meant to be a drag car although it has turned out as one with the level of mods and the bhp it puts out. He uses it everyday.

Well not most.. but some surely would.

I agree but then the number of such people are rising and there are a lot of these guys around.

Nobody denies that there are people who will do it. 150bhp from a 1.3 is considered serious here, where as, there are 600 plus bhp 1.6s and 2ltr cars that can do 200mph, which are being used as daily drives.

Compared to their level of serious tuning, we've got a long way to go. Heck we don't even have Spoon, Mines, HKS and the lot to help us get our cars tuned in India. The best we've got is a couple of mild performance parts from Mugen.

Anything beyond has to be sourced from outside.

Shan2nu

[paras211]

even if hks and the other big guys come here.IT aint gonna be cheap,because i doubt they'll be manufacturing parts here. if they just gonna give us imports (legal ones) we r better off sourcing under invoiced stuff from abroad.

[Harbir]

I am trying to figure out why there are no serious tuners in India. One thing I have heard is lack of expertise. The other is cost.

What if somebody did have the expertise and created in India, say a turbo kit for a swift or OHC or Verna (or whatever), properly engineered, fully developed, with turbo, plumbing, injectors, exhaust, intercooler, offering 50% to 150% power increase, would it sell?

I believe they would. Cost might be an impediment as the turbocharger itself would likely be imported, as would the ECU probably, but I feel that there WOULD be demand in India for a quality well engineered offering, even if its only by 0.01% of the market.

A quality turbo setup for the OHC offering 220hp or a Honda Accord V6 one offering 350hp could easily cost 2-5lacs, not counting import duties. So I realize that not a lot of people would buy. I am just having a hard time believing that no one would buy.

[DocG]

hmmm i'm planning to mod one of my cars in Jan, and well lemme put it this way, it's a big budget project...[ie i can buy a brand new car with that money, no not a hatchback ]
Well i have seen quite a few ppl in India with crazy modded up cars, most of them are cosmetic, but there are those few, and u really need to search who know what to do to their engines! however i have to say that it's apauling that using a new air filter and a catback are considered "serious" mods...i just heared that the other day....weird

[gemballa]

Originally Posted by doomsday

Dude I don't think gembella has mentioned that his swift is 150 horses NA. It is safe to say that it is impossible to get 150 horses out of the G13 staying NA and being a daily driver. So most probably the car will be TC'd.

@gembella: It would be great if you can dyno ur ride once it reaches the claimed mark next week. Also a detailed report of the turbo(s) used with the boost, internals etc. will be of much interest and appreciated.

yep the car is not n/a will be running a turbo on it.. and yep 150 hp is impossible out of the engine i pulled 100bhp or so out of the car at the moment running ecu, cams etc.. as forr the setup details its for me to know bit will put some pics

[GTO]

I am trying to figure out why there are no serious tuners in India. One thing I have heard is lack of expertise. The other is cost.

Actually, there are a handful of serious tuners in India. But yes, the numbers are surely limited in comparison to the market demand. For each big metro, you could count the serious tuners on your fingertips, with most of the best located down south.

[hkanitkar]

Originally Posted by Harbir

I am trying to figure out why there are no serious tuners in India.

Better re-phrased as 'Less no. of Serious tuners'.

Fuel Consumption, my friend.
In a country like India, where even a Lambo owner is asked what average does he get from the car, the main factor remains to be the FE of a car. This, given to a general perception that 'modify kiya hai toh average kam dega'.

There have been serious tuners like Leela down south who did it for the Rally cars. But then, using these cars as daily rides was not a common practice.
Now, due to the hype it generates, its common to mod a ride to certain extent ( Intake kits/ FFEs )

Originally Posted by Harbir

One thing I have heard is lack of expertise. The other is cost.

Expertise has been present since long. Eg. Leela - in the field since 90s ( i may be wrong here )

Cost : it matters a lot but people who are serious about the modifying their ride, are putting in a lot of money in it.

Summed up : Modding a ride : Fashion to some, Passion to some !