[akshay4587]

A ZMA-R,it should be,a crash guard should not be a deal breaker,and if you really need it, you can get a aftermarket one for a few hundred bucks.

[bluevolt]

Originally Posted by para_7k

- ZMR is too pricey for me.

As your budget is 1 lakh then ZMR seems to be the perfect bike fulfilling all your criteria. I know it costs 1.06 Lacs in Chennai but you can definitely bargain for discounts and get the price to 1 lac only. I request you to please TD the Karizma, you will praise Honda's refinement.

Or you can certainly look at KarizmaR which will be just around 80-85K in your state. It is recently updated with few cosmetics changes.

[para_7k]

Originally Posted by KarthikK

I own the 220F so I am sure he means the same thing. For 220F, the mirrors are popularly called "Elbow reflectors". Mirrors are way too small to be of much use; Leaves room for a large blind spot on both sides

Karthik, I hear many people saying that RTR mirrors or R15 mirrors can do some improvement. Have you tried it?

Also, a critical question, how is the refinement of this engine ?

How does it feel above 5K RPM and above 80 kmph ?

Originally Posted by AlphaKilo

Hey mate you say 1 L otr rite? why not a TBTS(thunderbird, twinspark)? Best headlamps, best tail lamps, best engine, best ride, and finally the best bike with a thump most important its a RE!! That ends the story right?

I cannot wait more than a month for a bike. Will I get an RE before that ?

Also, I'm a newbie to the bullet. Is it easy to adapt ?

Originally Posted by akshay4587

A ZMA-R,it should be,a crash guard should not be a deal breaker,and if you really need it, you can get a aftermarket one for a few hundred bucks.

Originally Posted by bluevolt

As your budget is 1 lakh then ZMR seems to be the perfect bike fulfilling all your criteria. I know it costs 1.06 Lacs in Chennai but you can definitely bargain for discounts and get the price to 1 lac only. I request you to please TD the Karizma, you will praise Honda's refinement.

Or you can certainly look at KarizmaR which will be just around 80-85K in your state. It is recently updated with few cosmetics changes.

Thanks Guys, I have always loved the old ZMA. Somehow ZMR is not to my liking.

I'm all hands for the ZMA. Let me rush to a HH showroom.

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by para_7k

I cannot wait more than a month for a bike. Will I get an RE before that ?

Also, I'm a newbie to the bullet. Is it easy to adapt ?

TBTS is like any other normal bike(gear and brake on the correct side). Bit bigger and bit heavier. I have no idea about the waiting period, but then you can ask the RE users(so many of them are here), if you can wait, I bet you have to look no further than a RE.

[iron]

You will easily adapt to the newer Enfields because there is nothing present in it which requires "adaptation" it is every bit of a modern bike.
All enfields standard, electra, Tbird, CL350 share the same engine.
Test Drive and pick our poison.

You can also check out the R15.
There is confirmed news that Yamaha is launching the upgraded version, pics are on t-bhp itself.

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by iron

You will easily adapt to the newer Enfields because there is nothing present in it which requires "adaptation" it is every bit of a modern bike.
All enfields standard, electra, Tbird, CL350 share the same engine.
Test Drive and pick our poison.

You can also check out the R15.
There is confirmed news that Yamaha is launching the upgraded version, pics are on t-bhp itself.

rightly said! Once the you taste the Forbidden fruit called RE, you will also become a real Adam and never want to give away that feeling of being on the RE.

[Sheel]

1L OTR and there ain't no R15 on the list?

Fazer/FZ's crash guards are available at the spare parts counter and if you remove the belly pan fairing of the Karizma, you can install crash-guard.

An all new Pulsar and R15 is supposed to debut in two month's time, if you can hang around, it should be worth.

[KarthikK]

Originally Posted by para_7k

Karthik, I hear many people saying that RTR mirrors or R15 mirrors can do some improvement. Have you tried it?

Also, a critical question, how is the refinement of this engine ?

How does it feel above 5K RPM and above 80 kmph ?

RTR/R15 mirrors improve visibility to a great extent, no doubt. But I have found that my friend using that arrangement was complaining lots of times about mirror vibration noises and things like that, more to do with the fitting (even after repeated visits). I haven't done anything to the stock mirrors. They aren't 100% useless to cause any panic. No need to rush to get transplants. They do the job but like I said before, lots of blind spot areas to watch out for. You will soon get used to them in case you go for the 220. If you still mind, you can do the transplants. Not a deal breaker in my opinion.

Refinement of the engine is very good compared to the older gen pulsars. Of course, the japs are in a league of their own and cannot be compared. The engine note gets a little hoarse past 6000 rpm. My odo reads 13k kms now and I have been using Motul 300V Synthetic engine oil. This has made it butter smooth. Bajaj has been sourcing the gearbox components from FCC Rico, the same supplier for Honda's famous gearbox components Thus the Gearbox is understandably ultra-refined. The only irritant for me is the fairing vibration in the F version at around 3000rpm (goes away below and above 3000, seems to be resonance vibration). I get it fixed by them taping it but it crops up again after a few months. Again a small price to pay for the brilliant performance so I don't crack my head too much.

The P220 is probably the most confidence inspiring bike out there at high speeds. It feels really planted at even speeds >130kmph. Ride quality also is good and bike feels solid. Of course, nothing can be as flickable as the R15 but I somehow liked the feel of the solid 220 more than the feather light R15. The only thing I feel lacking in the P220 is the presence of a 6th gear. It would have allowed highway cruising at low RPMs and boosted the fuel economy. I wish they bring a 6th gear in the next update of the P220.

This is slightly OT but the main reason for me rejecting the R15 was the ergonomics. The P220 felt tailormade for me. I am 6"1' and the R15 felt like riding on a toilet seat (no offense to R15 owners, I too am otherwise a fan of this bike ). Test ride all the bikes patiently to make sure you are comfortable. Ergonomics are something you don't detect in short TDs.


P.S : I have not ridden the ZMA / ZMR PGM Fi so I cannot make any comment on it. All opinions were given without taking ZMA/ ZMR PGM Fi into account

Originally Posted by Sheel

An all new Pulsar and R15 is supposed to debut in two month's time, if you can hang around, it should be worth.

+1 to this. Wait for another month or so and you won't regret having bought a dated vehicle. Also, the karizma R is almost 8 years old now. Really dated, better to wait for a new release.

I wouldn't be surprised if bajaj/yamaha are offering discounts now to clear the inventory. Are they?

[para_7k]

Thanks for the exhaustive info Karthik!

I'm getting impressed with the new CBZ-X. The Ugly bits seem to have vanished and the styling seems to grow on me.

75K OTR Chennai, almost has everything I need except for the tubeless tyres. I need to check if I can swap the Hunk's as they're of the same size.


It comes with the Legendary engine and a 2 year service package looks tempting.

I'm walking to a HH showrrom tomorrow to check it out and a possible TD. Will post the experience.

[shubhamAT]

While i am also looking for a bike i have already put ZMA-R as the prime contender (RTR 180 ABS is a close second), unless something really good is launched i will most likely buy it. Besides a refined engine (which P220S lacks)and a tourer like siting position (which RTR lacks) my main reason for sticking with ZMA is that in that price/cc range it's probably the only bike which has a kick.

Apart from this, the fact that ZMA has been around for quite a while now, and is low-tech, makes it more maintainable since neighborhood mechanics would be familiar with it. You would not want to run to A.S.C for every minor issue.

Go for ZMA-R.

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by para_7k

Thanks for the exhaustive info Karthik!

I'm getting impressed with the new CBZ-X. The Ugly bits seem to have vanished and the styling seems to grow on me.

75K OTR Chennai, almost has everything I need except for the tubeless tyres. I need to check if I can swap the Hunk's as they're of the same size.


It comes with the Legendary engine and a 2 year service package looks tempting.

I'm walking to a HH showrrom tomorrow to check it out and a possible TD. Will post the experience.

good, Do i see that the kicker is missing? TD the ZMR/ZMA too. If possible just drop into Suzuki showroom and check out on the info about the new launches from them.

[ashwin.terminat]

Personally, I don't think an R15 is available sub 1 lakh. But doesn't necessarily have to be as close to 1L as possible. Somewhere I suggest the HH Hunk. But I'd also recommend the GS150R. Suzuki's are generally very smooth. The Hunk is smooth by itself, but not as smooth. And does 80-85 comfortable. But have indeed heard that the GS150R's rear brakes are a joke. The Hunk contends there with a rear disk too. I've done some turns at around 66-70. So handling is not exquisite but is satisfactory. Only cause for concern is the bulky 150kg frame. Head Lamps are not disappointing but aren't very appealing too. They seem just ok. HID's might be a good alternative. As far as the A.S.C goes, HH SC in Bangalore are plain stupid. Don't know about the case in Chennai though. But yes, vibes in the bike are noticeable at around 5k RPM but smoothens out later.
So the ZMA seems like a good option for you. Not too sure if tubeless or not but yes, a good overall package. The new CBZ runs the same engine as the Hunk and the same chassis, so if you like the ride quality, check out the Hunk if you'd like too.

[The Great]

Originally Posted by AdrenalinJunkie

To me the old HH Karizma is still a pretty good option with its excellent ergonomics, butter smooth engine and strong mid range torque. Moreover you have the excellent *** of Hero Honda to give you a tension free ownership. It pretty much ticks all the check boxes in your list. Apart from the fact that its an ageing product, there is almost nothing going against it..

+5 ^^, Hero Honda Karizma R, look no further, this is what you are seeking mate !!

I personally do not own it, but my brothers karizma is awesome in all respects and fits all your requirements..

Plush 180!! if u find the old 180 as plush, then Karizma is the magic carpet.

[para_7k]

H(Z)ero Honda ?

I called up a HH showroom. There are no CBZ-Xs or Hunks or ZMAs available for even display! Forget Test rides!

ZMR is there but for some lame reasons, they won't give me a test ride.

Called up the HH toll free number who gave me the regional office number.

Good bikes being let down this way.

No one has a clue of where I can take a test ride.

He said "We had supply problems, bikes may be on the way!"

He pointed me to a dealer and asked me to go there. I asked him to have the dealer contact me.

I seriously doubt if they'll ever call me back.


RTR 180 Test Ride:

Called up a TVS Showroom. They have RTR 180 (even the ABS version) ready for TD.

I liked the TD experience. The sales advisor seemed to be informed of overall of the bike.

He offered me a TD of all the 3 - 160, 180 and 180 with ABS. I told him I'll just test the one with ABS.



Here are some info on the bike by the dealer.

- ABS version is flying off the shelves, there is a lot of demand.

- ABS Version is priced 90K OTR chennai, 10k just for the ABS.

- Almost no waiting period. Can be delivered in one week.

- ABS version comes only in White. Non ABS comes in white, black and yellow.

- TVS tyres are the only option. TVS does not like other tyre brands - Read may have warranty niggles.

- TVS strictly insists on separate TD bikes. The sales advisor told me these days customers are better informed and 90% of the PDIs are done in front of the customer. Welcome move!

Overall Sales Experience - 8/10 -- Way to GO TVS!!


Disclaimer:

This is based on my TD experience of 25-30 minutes. The views here are my perceptions based on the conditions of the TD.


Looks:

There is something on the RTR that always attracts you. Be it the first gen 150, the amazing yellow 160 or the white RTR 180, every other way you look at it, it spells character. TVS has given a lot to this design, be it the alloy foot pegs, the grab rail, the all black kick lever, the forged brake lever, everything looks put together with the character of the bike in mind.

No bike is perfect ye ? To me, the engine kill switch looked very obtrusive, the golden paint on the front suspension arms looked bad and I felt the handle bar weights should have been in forged silver instead of plain black.



Did I like it ? Oh yes, a near perfectly carved street machine. To me, this is the perfect street fighter next to the FZ. This does not look like a track machine - like R15 or a tourer unlike - ZMA

My P180 looks very staid after I saw this but good in its own way though.

My rating on Looks - 7/10 - A perfect Street Hooligan


Build, Fit and Finish.

I have owned (and still own a PEP+) TVS machines and they've never been a let down in this area. There was quality everywhere and detailing is enormous.

TVS attention to detail has to be appreciated. For instance, I just let my hands flow through the Tank shrouds and the edges were smooth. Has anyone felt them in the Pulsars ?

Paint Quality is top class (not in the shining category - which I hate), there are no ugly panel gaps and eveything feels nice to touch. I flicked the engine kill switch two or three times just because it felt good!

I cannot comment on the build so early but there weren't any rattles anywhere even after the bike emerged out of potholes. The bike came in and out as one piece. Most of the Bajajs I have ridden feel like two or three bikes are falling in and coming out of potholes.


Rating - 9/10 - I personally have nothing to crib here.


Ride/Handling:

A hop on this saddle showed me how big I am. Huh, Seriously! After the P180, it feels soooo tiny. Once I brought the engine to life and moved it, it took its own sweet revenge which is a different story.

Ok, now this is a track machine right, the handling is spot on. I rode on the streets and within the mad traffic and the flickability of this tiny monster is in such a way which will put every Auto to shame.

Nudging every gap is not my style of riding but heck, this machine cries for it and makes you do it. And when you're doing some speed the track tested character proves again. It sweeps corners like the knife sails through butter and keeps its poise at straights.

I did not ride at more than 75 kmph but this one was felt a lot more confident than the first gen apache on straights. I am reckoning an FZ/Fazer should be better but this one is no slouch on straights.

On the Ride front, yes, as I thought it was stiff. I felt nearly all humps and the tyres did no good. But I liked it! Why ? The feedback this setup gives is far more accurate than my P180s. The 180 feels good on small humps but easily bottoms out on some large humps which also comes along with the KRRRRR of the center stand as a free gift.

Phew! No more bouncy-wouncy on the apache and no underbelly or center stand musics.

My Rating - 8/10



Braking:

Why a separate sub topic when this is supposed to come under handling itself ? This is the ABS version no ? and the cheapest one with it!

Ok, now given the TVS experience in brakes and being the first bike to offer a 260mm petal disc (RTR 160), this is one hell of a stopping machine!

Most of the Indian bikes gives me jidders as they don't retard as good as they accelerate. Well, this bike did not.

Accelerate as much as you want, go on any surface, weather and hit the brakes! This bike will stop.

I dared it, took the bike to 50 kmph on a cement surface with lot of sand, said my prayers and hit the brakes. Before I could realize the thing stopped. No stoppie as I was heavy enough!!!

220 kgs - 130 kg bike + 90 kg me brought to a halt with no drama and in a straight line. No words, outstanding, Quite Outstanding!

Pulling stoppies on this thing is so easy. No prior experience required.

Go and feel it people! The bike lives to the claim!!



My Rating - 15/10 - Or something even more.


Engine/Gearbox:

Why this is the last ? Yeah, this is one thing where this machine let me down. Performance wise, yes, a rocket. Let go the clutch and the torque from the first gear is massive.

124PS/Ton and it shows. Coupled with that flickability and a lovely exhaust note, this is supposed to the motor to die for ? Well, not really.

Take her above 4000 RPM and you'll start getting a free body massage. The vibes start creeping up from the tank and foot pegs. The more you rev, more the massage.

Already having enjoyed 4 years of Free Massage from the P180, I wanted something that would massage my mind!

Yes, this engine delivers a lot of power but does with a lot of noise and feels forced to do so! PAH!

Gearshift was excellent. Proper gear ratios and nice low end torque provide excellent city drivability. You'll have many in your RVMs before you even realize. Traffic light Drags anyone?


My Rating - 6/10 - Damn those Vibes!


Summary:

Overall - 8/10

Summing up my love and hate,


Love:

- Build, Fit and Finish
- ABS Rocks!
- Nice motor, pulls and pulls forever.
- Flickable and Stable - Super Chassis

Hate:

- Tiiinnyy Feel
- Get me tyres that stick!
- I do not need a massage. I want a refined motor


Will I buy this bike ? Well, I don't know. Will I rule this out - No! The chassis and ABS is very inviting!

This is still in my list. TVS Service has been improving and this might end up in my stable. Only few more TDs and lot of head breaking will tell!


Things I was not able to check

- Cruisability - Max I could do was 75 km/h.
- Ergonomics - I was not concentrating on this.
- Electricals - Lights and Horn - Enough Daylight and less chance to Honk

[rahulsingh007]

I have had a Apache RTR160 since June'2008 and believe me till this day even after riding it almost everyday since buying it , I am still excited to ride it and have a big smile on my face when I revv it hard .

All I can say is that the ABS 180 is the best bike ~ 1Lakh in my view , and believe me you will not be disappointing after buying it.

but if you consider it a 'bit to small' for your liking , you can look into HH Karizma which is a great bike to own too !