[Aditya]

All posts related to the launch of the Yamaha YZF-R3 moved to a new thread. Thanks.

[AtheK]

Originally Posted by theredliner

The price is along the expected lines IMO. One area where the Ninja is ahead is slipper clutch. If slipper clutch is factored in, they are on par in terms of price.

I personally don't find any point in investing in these bikes (Ninja and R3) if one is keen on upgrading 2-3 years later. It is better to buy a KTM 390, save some money and buy a properly fast 600 class bike later. If one wants better reliability and practicality, get a CBR instead of the KTM. 4L+ OTR for these 300s is way too much when you can ride home 600s for 6-7L.

A KTM with some after market parts installed would improve quality and reliability to an extent and will still be cheaper with ABS, better tyres, better handling etc. Also, I wouldn't trade that addictive 373cc mill to any parallel twin no matter how smooth they are. The parallel twins are too linear and boring to me personally. They don't 'feel' fast like the KTM's single.

Very aptly put, what I am really thi king at this point is what makes more sense buying a RC390 at close to 3 lacs or a 3-4 yr old hyosung 650, which has done <10k on odi for 3 lacs and about.

R3 for me is out of equation now, though I am sure all proud owners will have a gala time driving it, the RC390 just seems a better package all around.

[Nilesh5417]

How many does Kawasaki sell of the Ninja300? This seems to be priced to take it head-on and completely ignores the KTM twins. Plus no deltabox frame from R15 which was widely appreciated?

[ksameer1234]

Originally Posted by theredliner

I personally don't find any point in investing in these bikes (Ninja and R3) if one is keen on upgrading 2-3 years later. It is better to buy a KTM 390, save some money and buy a properly fast 600 class bike later. If one wants better reliability and practicality, get a CBR instead of the KTM. 4L+ OTR for these 300s is way too much when you can ride home 600s for 6-7L.

A KTM with some after market parts installed would improve quality and reliability to an extent and will still be cheaper with ABS, better tyres, better handling etc. Also, I wouldn't trade that addictive 373cc mill to any parallel twin no matter how smooth they are. The parallel twins are too linear and boring to me personally. They don't 'feel' fast like the KTM's single.

Originally Posted by AtheK

Very aptly put, what I am really thi king at this point is what makes more sense buying a RC390 at close to 3 lacs or a 3-4 yr old hyosung 650, which has done <10k on odi for 3 lacs and about.

R3 for me is out of equation now, though I am sure all proud owners will have a gala time driving it, the RC390 just seems a better package all around.

Another very important factor apart from sticker price is the cost of ownership in terms of scheduled maintenance and spares. RC390 competes with premium bikes in terms of performance while the spares are priced similar to that of Pulsar. A friend finds cost of ownership for his Duke 390 much less than that for Yamaha R15.

[MavericK46]

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

How many does Kawasaki sell of the Ninja300? This seems to be priced to take it head-on and completely ignores the KTM twins. Plus no deltabox frame from R15 which was widely appreciated?

Well, they couldn't have picked a fight with Bajaj/KTM on pricing and hoped to win.
They did the smart thing and went after more relevant competition.

And as far as the Deltabox chassis is concerned, it does seem to be a case where there were surely both engineering and accounting concerns that went against Yamaha's famed triangle

[barcalad]

And then, the media whines that there is partiality in giving press rides.

[SuperMane]

So much disappointment. Sigh.
They had a winner in their hands. Even if they had offered ABS with that price it would have crushed kawi in sales. Second most powerful in the segment,gorgeous sports bike looks & still comfortable from a touring point of view. Thats all indians need. Throw in the safety net of ABS & 30~40k premium over KTM, it would have reached sweet spot for prospective customers. Being a Yamaha, its still going to have a lot of takers. But from an enthusiast point of view there is a lot left to be desired.

OT Heres the comparo of all fours which I haven't seen posted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqD4TuIbmYw

[sunil.nv]

Finally Yamaha has delivered the most expected package and our roads will have another addition to the quarter liter zoomers. Though excited but deep within am bit disappointed for R3 not fitted with ABS. At this price it is more reachable than Ninja 300 plus churning out those additional 4 hp but I get a feeling that with their pricing they just made the KTM’s more lucrative


regards,
Sunil.NV

[VW2010]

Folks who have not test rode this bike dont form a judgement before trying it. This is a baby R6. Yeah the baby of baby R1 in reality. I have test rode this bike before actually getting a nicer 6R. The 300 is priced very well and for those who have had a chance to ride a R6 will know what this bike can deliver.

The torque band is well built, the engine has the traditional Yamaha grunt and is not a silent engine like a Ninja.

The bike handles beautifully and i am pretty sure once you try this bike you will know this is here to stay.

They should have provided the 4 caliper 298mm dual front disc. ABS hardly matters in that brake system i already use in the Fz6r.

The weight is also slightly higher and it balances very well on road.

A great street bike but a greater bike on the mountain or track. Love it

[ku69rd]

Originally Posted by theredliner

4L+ OTR for these 300s is way too much when you can ride home 600s for 6-7L.

Mate,
The R3 is 381K On Road in Bangalore.

As I understand you are ridden by your pocket when you are making the comparisons with KTM RC Vs R3/Ninja 300. Refinement is something I suppose you do not care much.

Am not even speaking of the quality or the Exhaust Notes here.

PS: Honestly speaking this is a very good successor for the RD which was launched nearly 32 years ago.

[theredliner]

Originally Posted by ku69rd

Mate,
The R3 is 381K On Road in Bangalore.

As I understand you are ridden by your pocket when you are making the comparisons with KTM RC Vs R3/Ninja 300. Refinement is something I suppose you do not care much.

Am not even speaking of the quality or the Exhaust Notes here.

PS: Honestly speaking this is a very good successor for the RD which was launched nearly 32 years ago.

OK. If not 4L+, close to 4L isn't it?

Comparison between RC and Ninja isn't driven by pocket alone. I am a fan of supersport bikes and I feel RC 390 is a better engineered product overall and I doubt I would buy the R3 over the RC even if they are priced at par. Also, they are direct competitors all over the world except India so comparison is bound to happen.

Yes, you are right. I don't care much about the refinement. In fact I like bikes that are grunty and somewhat rough.

Right now, quality is the only thing in which RC lags behind R3 for me personally but is the R3's quality really that much better that it commands 50% premium over the KTM?

The RC is quicker, handles better (from what the reviews say), looks better(subjective), is more fun(in a hooligan way).

What most reviews say (experienced rider reviews, not magazine reviews alone) about RC is that, the quarter litre segment has been boring for a long time with commuter bikes being sold in sport bike clothes. It is the RC 390 (and Duke 390), that has brought fun and excitement back into the segment. That opinion is coming out of people who are regular litre class riders.

The Yamaha seems to have aimed at bettering Ninja 300 instead of being a true R series bike. To me it is more of an FZ-3R than a YZF-R3. It has been diluted more than the little YZF-R15 and YZF-R125 which come with Delta box and the latter comes with even USDs!

If only it was a true YZF-R series bike, it would have easily been my favourite. Remember, Kawasaki doesn't call the R3's competitor ZX-3R for a reason.

But I understand the view point of tourers and daily commuters who are looking for a relaxed, smooth bike which scores high on reliability. Those people tend to keep the bike for a pretty long time and I have addressed that point in my previous post.

For some one who is looking for a stop gap before upgrading to bigger bikes and considering how we have a decent number of options now compared to a few years ago where it was Ninja 250 -> Ninja 650 -> expensive litre class, it just doesn't make sense to put down a premium for just a couple of years IMO.

PS The KTM does sound bad at idle and low revs, but at high revs the 390 sounds pretty good. You can watch some flybys, it does sound good. If you're not satisfied, there are aftermarkets towards which you can put down the price difference.

Also, once the BMW comes out, I think the quality issue will be taken care of as well at 30-40k premium over the KTM.

[ashwin.terminat]

Originally Posted by ksameer1234

A friend finds cost of ownership for his Duke 390 much less than that for Yamaha R15.

The holy trinity is fast, cheap, reliable.

Alas, you can never get all 3.
What is reliable and cheap will not be fast.
What is fast and cheap will not reliable.
What is reliable and fast will not be cheap.

The R15 falls in the last category. In its 7 year history, I barely remember any issues of cracked rims, rattling of the fairing, engine trouble, radiator issues, etc. I have seen R15s abused but still running like a Hero Honda Splendor. Ownerships are fuss- free, but of course, pricey. But it rewards with you with bullet proof reliability. The master cylinder kit for the R15 is around Rs. 4000. What does this reward you with? A truly rewarding braking experience. The feel and feedback from the brakes is just brilliant.

Dukes are suffering with rusted conesets at 9000km due to "pressure washing" supposedly, cracked rims, engine turning off randomly after high speed etc. I am not saying these are deal breakers, but somewhere, corners have been cut to present the bike to us at this price.

What I mean to say is, comparing the Duke's running costs with the running costs of the R15 is not really fair. The quality of the spares will only be commensurate with the cost.

[ku69rd]

Originally Posted by theredliner

I feel RC 390 is a better engineered product

Right now, quality is the only thing in which RC lags behind R3 for me personally

The RC is quicker, handles better (from what the reviews say), looks better(subjective), is more fun(in a hooligan way).

That opinion is coming out of people who are regular litre class riders.

It has been diluted more than the little YZF-R15 and YZF-R125 which come with Delta box and the latter comes with even USDs!

PS The KTM does sound bad at idle and low revs, but at high revs the 390 sounds pretty good.

I would like to differ on the better engineered product. Yes for a single cylinder product, it does work well. They have upped the ante. But as an overall product I do not think so.

Quality is a big thing for me. Riding it on the tracks or mountains and am approaching a sharp curve I would want the throttle to work the way it has to, Brakes the way it has to. I would not want to go rolling down the abyss or sliding off the track just because the rim decided to give way. I would not want to turn off the engine to let it cool down just because i came downhill riding it in high speeds. (Oook this might be an exaggeration)

RC being faster, better handler in a hooligan manner...I seriously do not understand you. What do you mean by a hooligan manner?

You cannot base your opinion on just these 'Regular Liter Class Riders'. Just because they own/ride liter class riders does not mean they are technically qualified people to comment. I will introduce you to a lot of such riders who understand little of what they have gotten into. (Essentially the posers)
(Neither am I...am only basing my opinion from my experience with motorcycling). Am sure people will pitch them on tracks and results will be there for all to see.

Yes I agree with you on the USD Forks, Yam did undercut by not putting on a USD.

For heaven's sake, this bike will not be used as a 'regular' tourer. It will be good for your breakfast rides considering its posture. (There will be some naysayers who will still ride it to Himalayas next year, do watch out for them)

For Yamaha all that matters would be the sales they do with this bike. They will be least concerned if you use it for track days or taking it to Leh or riding it to work every day.

And yes buddie, not all riders would want to upgrade. I know a lot of riders who are happy with their quarter liter bikes riding it day in and out.

The Exhaust notes are strikingly similar the APE Exhaust notes to me. Yes the three Wheeler luggage carrier. I would not want to try hard to extract a better exhaust note by taking it to the highway or track often.

PS: Am still looking forward for the KTM 690 but I do not think it will ever come

[theredliner]

Originally Posted by ku69rd

I would like to differ on the better engineered product. Yes for a single cylinder product, it does work well. They have upped the ante. But as an overall product I do not think so.

PS: Am still looking forward for the KTM 690 but I do not think it will ever come

I think you are mixing engineering with quality here. The KTM engineering in the bike is great. It is the quality churned out by Bajaj that's bad. The great engineering reflects not just in the engine, it is reflected in handling too. Also, I do not know what made you think that the RC does not throttle or brake in a way that a rider wants to. If that was the case, would it have earned the 'best track bike in the segment' title consistently? BTW, rims have cracked in KTMs only with big potholes, they haven't cracked for accelerating/braking hard, at least till now. Again, about the rim cracking, KTM is not the only one, Yamaha too has a history of rim cracking in the initial batches of FZ-16.

I agree with you that you exaggerated the heating part The over heating issue is seen mainly due to fans failing due to poor part quality of Bajaj. The RC stays cool enough if ridden hard on the open road. In fact it stays cooler than when it is crawled in city traffic.

Again quality is important for me too, but I do weigh as to how much more I am paying for how much more increase in quality. That's one of the reasons I'm willing to wait for the BMW K-03. Let's see if they come out with an S300RR with BMW engineering and TVS' quality that is considerably better than Bajaj's.

About the hooligan part, I meant power delivery in the form of an exciting surge as opposed to linear acceleration seen in the parallel twins.

About the 'Regular Liter Class Riders', isn't it obvious that I was talking about people who know stuff? If it was just some poser who doesn't know how many cylinders his bike's engine has, why would I even listen to his opinion in the first place, let alone consider it?

I think you have got the R3's riding posture confused with something else. R3 has a lot less aggressive posture than RC390(which is not at all aggressive in the first place compared to 600 class supersports) and even R15. It has a comfortable riding position similar to (and even more relaxed than) Ninja 300 which is an established tourer in our country. Even Yamaha have acknowledged that they have made the posture suitable for everyday riding. The picture below shows it. Also, I don't see people putting down close to 4L for a 300 just for breakfast rides, when the RC 390's reliability is good enough for that and there are more exciting bikes available for that purpose if the pockets are really deep.



Agree that sales are the real target for a company, but Yamaha does not seem to be aiming to get much of that either, considering the price. If they really wanted good sales, they'd have localized the bike. The Ninja 300 sold just 55 units in June 2015 (Source). Once the diehard Yamaha fans finish up the initial batches, the sales will be divided between R3 and Ninja. I don't see the both of them combined together doing more than 100 units per month. If Kawa cuts the price (like they did for Z800 and killed the Street Triple) or introduces ABS without much increase in price, it would be near death for R3.

Again, I too agree that there are many riders who won't upgrade from their quarter litres. That's the reason why I mentioned in both of my previous posts that this bike is suitable for them the most - those who want to keep it for long and clock a lot of km on it without worrying much about quality.

Okay, the exhaust note is bad. That is agreed by almost everyone including me. But the difference is huge when compared to the sweet note of I4 or grunty note of V2. The parallel twins don't sound exciting in anyway to make it a deal breaker in this case. Also, you can easily eliminate the ape sound with a new exhaust for less than 30% of the premium Yamaha charges.

I too would love to get my hands on a KTM 690. A single cylinder Duke 690 or a V-Twin RC 690 would be superb.
I would also love to own an inline 4 600 class supersport bike someday.

[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by ku69rd

Quality is a big thing for me. Riding it on the tracks or mountains and am approaching a sharp curve I would want the throttle to work the way it has to, Brakes the way it has to. I would not want to go rolling down the abyss or sliding off the track just because the rim decided to give way. I would not want to turn off the engine to let it cool down just because i came downhill riding it in high speeds. (Oook this might be an exaggeration)

Lets be fair here. How many riders have rolled down into the abyss because of the above mentioned reasons(Except may be the alloy cracking episode)? And how many of them had to switch off their engine to cool it down because they have ridden constantly at 100+ Kmph?

At the same time I do agree that the quality is not par with the competition, but it is at par with the price.

RC being faster, better handler in a hooligan manner...I seriously do not understand you. What do you mean by a hooligan manner?

Super Quick turn-ins sensitive throttle and insane power to weight accounts for a holliganistic mannerism.