Team-BHP (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/)

-   Motorbikes (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorbikes/)

-   -   Big vs Small Touring Bikes (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorbikes/204117-big-vs-small-touring-bikes-11.html)

Yeah true, was not very happy with it - except the riding stance. It can manage 95 steady on the highways and a lot more though - had one keeping pace with me almost during the Interceptor TD.

Haven't tested the 310GS at all. Knowing how Tusker gives test rides, never bothered to go there. Was just going with your comments. lol:

The GS can go way over 95, no questions asked. But the Buzz is...a buzzkill. Its just too much after 95, and I checked multiple times at different speeds to identify when and where the buzz begins. And the buzz is all throughout the frame, seat, pegs.

But everything else about the GS is top stuff, nothing to complain. Like I said, sum of parts GS VS Himalayan, its no contest at all.

Now, I hope Nasirkaka joins me on the next ride lol:

Guys - Let's not please turn this thread into a Himalayan or GS310 bashing thread. They have already been bashed enough, as products on different threads, and loved enough by their possessive owners on a few others.

Neither of these two products are particularly good for touring, and 70% + of the forum members seem to agree that the middle-weight segment is where the touring game really is. So, let's get back to discussing those products, and not the outliers -
- RE 650 Twins
- Kawa z650/KRT/Versys
- Suzuki VStrom
- T100
- CBR650
- HD 750s
- anything else?

Except maybe one post, :) we are just trying to discuss riding based experience on merits or demerits of one motorcycle over the other for the purpose of touring. TOURING on a motorcycle may project an image of a nice sunny highway, a big bike (mostly a cruiser or an adv tourer), big saddle bags/panniers, etc. but the real image of touring on two wheels in our country is much different and so are the practical challenges and hurdles, where big is a liability most of the time then luxury.

with no intention of drifting away from the topic of the thread, would really like you know as to how you have you come to conclusion that neither of the these two (GS and Himalayan) are particularly good for touring? I am really not aware if you have done long rides on these two bikes and if you have, would genuinely like to know the reasons behind this strong statement.

The middle weight on the poll is mentioned as 400 to 800cc. Himalayan being a 410cc engine qualifies for it. And if Himalayan can qualify as a middle weight tourer as per the poll, there technically the 310 GS also should as its equal or better at most parameters. And that is where i had requested to break this 400 to 800cc segment into two (300-550 and 550-800), where my vote would have gone to 300-500cc instead of current 400-800.
Quoting Deelip Menzes who is a known rider from Goa with good amount of international touring experience, " Last time when I rode to this quarry off Colvale alone with my Tiger I was a little tense. This place is quite a way from civilisation and if I dropped the bike in a manner that I couldn’t pick it up by myself, I would be in a sticky situation. Today I rode my 310 GS here and basically didn’t think twice about where I was going and whether I was alone or not. The joy of riding a light adventure motorcycle. "

Please add Tiger 800, BMW 750/850GS & Multistrada 950 to this list. And since when is T100 or HD750 become a "tourer" ?

It should have been 600-950cc as middle weight ... since thats the category where most of middle-weight tourers lie. 300-500CC is Entry level tourers in most of the world - including 310GS, Versys 300-X & Himalayan.

Touring can also be divided into 2 broad categories -

1. Go anywhere type adventure seekers for whom probably a lighter bike makes sense

2. People who want to stick to touring on tarmac or semi-paved roads. For whom bikes like 1200GS/Multistrada are the pinnacle of comfort, safety & performance

My understanding of motorcycles and motorcycling has gone through some evolution. As an e.g what mattered a lot in the past, like the number of pipes and colour scheme is different to what matters now - the weight of the motorcycle and safety/ABS. Or from how many kms I've ridden the motorcycle to what all memorable experiences I've had on it...

My wife and I do motorcycle touring across India a few times a year. We load our luggage (which includes hair dryers, hair straightening iron, SPF30 creams etc) and head out to unknown lands.. well maybe not, just head out to the next decent hotel with hot shower but that's not the point. Some of my trips are documented on TBHP, some not. Our normal trips would include:

1. anywhere between 2000-4500 kms of travelling
2. 50kgs of luggage and a total of 200 kgs on the motorcycle including our weight. No, I'm not giving the breakdown ;).
3. 10-15 days total trip time
4. 8-12 hours of travel time on the days we are on the motorcycle.

Even though I've voted for the mid segment, my 2 cents on the subject are:

1. Motorcycle engine capacity is highly overrated. As long as a motorcycle can pull your load comfortably without overheating or breaking down it's the right capacity. Read Ted Simon's Jupiter's Travels to see what an unreliable 650cc twin could accomplish 30+years ago. Or closer home what Bharadwaj Dayala achieved on a humble Karizma - extraordinary feats of touring achieved on motorcycles that were not meant for what they were put through.
2. Don't wait to buy the 'right' motorcycle to do what you want to, if you have one already, take it out and make the most of it: we have Triumph Bonneville mag wheel which wasn't designed for touring. We've done Delhi>Goa>Delhi on it and taken it to Ladakh and back and many more trips. A Tiger or Versys would have been a better choice but a Bonneville is all we had so we did what we had to, get on its back and - Tour! The best travelogues I have read are about journeys on humble scooters, WagonRs and Pulsars.

To us, motorcycling is what matters, the motorcycle is simply a means to achieve that end.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Bonneville. I spit and polish it, admire it parked and enjoy the places it has taken us to and the experiences it has put us through. If i rewind, and my experiences with it remain the same, it could have had a 300cc motor in it, or a 1200cc motor, it wouldn't have altered my love for it in anyway.

If you love motorcycles more than motorcycling, then by all means do scrutinise every little detail. In the end the love for motorcycling should triumph (excuse the pun) to the love for metal and rubber.

Cheers,
Sting

I watched that video within 30 min of uploading. And thought of sharing it on this thread but you had done it by then. I love how Ryan puts things across in the most beautiful and entertaining manner. I remember him saying that there are bikes that can go off-road, but with the TW, you can go off-trail.

Lovely! I liked the side box modified as a top box. I didn't know something like this existed so I was always carrying what looked like a pizza delivery box on my Impulse. This one is now on my wishlist. It's much more usable day-to-day and doesn't look out of place.

True. I plan to upgrade to the 300 once I learn to fully exploit the Gixxer SF. I seriously considered buying a colleague's well-maintained RC390 but I didn't have the skills to measure its strengths. Also, it's not commute-friendly.

Same here.

Finally, something we can agree on. I happen to fall in the first category. That's why the CRF 250 would be better for me. Even if that means I have to sacrifice some tarmac performance. Because I'll have another bike strictly for well-paved roads.

Exactly my point. A lighter, simpler bike would give me the confidence to literally explore the unknown.

O..M..G! That's bound to piss off participants of the ****-measuring contest. If all I'm going to do with my 2.5kg hand is type, then it's dead weight that could be affecting the words-per-minute figure.

Isn't that what unites us all...the spirit of riding?

I agree. Wide angle lenses make it look easy.

This is an old photo. After doing the Off-Road Adventure Zone track with ease, I decided to attack one incline from the side. I failed. I dropped the Navi several times. But I had a lot of fun that day. I don't think I would have even attempted to do this with a Himalayan or a Tiger, or anything heavier than my Impulse.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attac...1&d=1544471916

For the person who is complaining of everyone else competing, I doubt if anyone else here is so aggressively trying to prove others wrong!

And that kind of drowns out other valid points that you say. :)

We are on a big vs small touring bike debate.

I observed the following things.

Whatever bike you have is the best touring bike.
Honda Navi is considered a motorcycle as well, good for touring.
Engine size does not matter.
Versys,Tiger and similar seems to be the bike everyone wants.
Purpose built small touring bikes like GS are great for prospecting.

So what about the top selling elephant in the room? RE350, where does that fit in?

In the service center stupid:

Royal enfields were our only choices of high capacity motorcycles back in the days of the license raj. That has changed now. No point in bringing the elephant to the party.

Well that is a bit harsh mate. Bashing an Enfield will only go this far. There are STILL A LOT of people who do touring in India on Enfield's. Most of the foreigners I saw in Manali, Shimla, Leh, etc circuit were indeed touring on RE, not that they have a dearth of choice but still, I tell what I observe.

True that RE CI Bullet is one of the legacies of the British Raj like IR, English, Howrah Bridge, Administration, and many many more. Coming to license raj, during those days everything was limited and not just motorcycles. Today we do have many choices and one can buy what they like but bashing RE will go only this far, because the FACT is RE is still in production since 1901 and is the highest selling motorcycle in the 350-500cc category and soon will be in 650cc category as well. There are many including me who still choose to tour on it.

About the Elephant comment, with the launch of RE 650 twins the Elephant just got bigger from the looks, reviews and number of bookings it has garnered.:thumbs up

Eagerly waiting for Sid Lal to offer an ADV enthusiast like me a Himalayan 650.

As a big bonnie fan and an ex-owner of an SE 865, i have read some of your travelogue and really admire the spirit of your tours. Have also been referring your stories to others about not being stuck with type of motorcycle and its limitations, but just do what you want to to.
Having said that, there could be various means to achieve that end. its like whether one wants to do it the hard way, easy way, comfortable way, safer way, etc, and would depend on individuals choice/preference. If the end is experience of touring on a motorcycle in India, would it not be better to choose the means as something which over a period of time, is been designed to do the task comparatively well. For eg, i can play shuttle with tennis shoes on, but wouldn't it be better to use the shuttle shoe which is evolved based on the court surface, body movement, non-marking, etc. From this thread itself, its clear that people have done all sort of tours on all typres of vehicles, including a busa, auto, scooty pep, & such varied vehicles doing the Leh circuit.

I also wonder why do we have to stick to a motorcycle and why cant we change them based on our usage, or maybe even have more than one. We have all grown from touring on bullets, karizmas, yezdis, etc to other newer offerings. I could have kept my machismo 350 and continued touring on it, but i realised its shortfalls and there were other better motorcycles suiting my need, so i traded the machismo for other and that other some something other and so on. With time, our requirements, limitations, outlook, capablities etc change and we change the means to achieve that end in a way which suits us at that point in time. Bonnie is a classic & great bike and folks have done wonders with it including RTW, but am sure you would agree that there are better purpose built motorcycles to do mumbai - ladakh - mumbai having better GC, better suspension, wind protection, tank range, luggage carrying capability, safety features, etc. You choosing a bonnie over other bikes is purely a personal choice. Am sure would would have owned and rode other motorcycles before bonnie and the fact that you love to tour on the bonnie does have something to do with the motorcycles as well. all i am trying to say is i am not sure if motorcycles can be simply disconnected from motorcycling, i guess they are two sides of the same coin.

Sorry but universally 250-300cc bikes are considered as beginner/small motorcycles. There is a huge difference in power/performance between them and the middle weight 600-950cc bikes.

Perfectly said ! 90% of touring is the rider ... 10% is the bike. Dont wait for the perfect bike to come.

lol: Well said .... the Classic 350/500 are 80's tech being sold in 21st century at inflated prices. They deserve to be in service centers or museums.

You will be surprised if you take a look at the scene now, within the 2L bracket the first four items in bikewale is RE350 siblings, as far as offerings go, there is not much to look at apart from Jawa and RE, Jawa is yet to hit the roads, so cannot say much now.

Why the devotion to RE? Why not pick up what suits your needs best rather than wait for RE to offer it to you?

If money is no object, would you still stick with RE?

Makes perfect sense, and the message is clear. There is no one bike garage if you have Touring in mind, since the tiger wont go get milk for you!

Since scooters have taken over the town, the days of commuter motorcycles are over - almost.

I consider the existence of motorcycle itself is to have fun while traveling, may as well get a good one.

Size is and has always been a relative term.

So what might be big somewhere else might seem to be small here and vice-versa, hence unless resorting to primitive 'monkey see, monkey do' tactic I feel that going by "Universal" categorizations for motorcycles being ridden on Indian roads might be a tad bit misleading.

Because with our severely limited structural and informational infrastructure even the likes of a 375cc motorcycle which universally is a small motorcycle can be a handful on our roads.

That's just me, so do feel free to correct me. :)