Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Motorbikes


View Poll Results: Your choice?
Small bike (<400cc) 49 21.49%
Medium (e.g. 400 - 800cc) 154 67.54%
Big (litre class) 25 10.96%
Voters: 228. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th December 2018, 13:39   #151
Team-BHP Support
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: India
Posts: 11,731
Thanked: 30,456 Times
Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Man, have you ridden the Himalayan?
Yeah true, was not very happy with it - except the riding stance. It can manage 95 steady on the highways and a lot more though - had one keeping pace with me almost during the Interceptor TD.

Haven't tested the 310GS at all. Knowing how Tusker gives test rides, never bothered to go there. Was just going with your comments.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2018, 13:43   #152
Senior - BHPian
 
Red Liner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,811
Thanked: 2,401 Times
Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Yeah true, was not very happy with it - except the riding stance. It can manage 95 steady on the highways and a lot more though - had one keeping pace with me almost during the Interceptor TD.

Haven't tested the 310GS at all. Knowing how Tusker gives test rides, never bothered to go there. Was just going with your comments.
The GS can go way over 95, no questions asked. But the Buzz is...a buzzkill. Its just too much after 95, and I checked multiple times at different speeds to identify when and where the buzz begins. And the buzz is all throughout the frame, seat, pegs.

But everything else about the GS is top stuff, nothing to complain. Like I said, sum of parts GS VS Himalayan, its no contest at all.

Now, I hope Nasirkaka joins me on the next ride
Red Liner is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2018, 13:51   #153
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ghaziabad
Posts: 1,232
Thanked: 1,656 Times
Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

Guys - Let's not please turn this thread into a Himalayan or GS310 bashing thread. They have already been bashed enough, as products on different threads, and loved enough by their possessive owners on a few others.

Neither of these two products are particularly good for touring, and 70% + of the forum members seem to agree that the middle-weight segment is where the touring game really is. So, let's get back to discussing those products, and not the outliers -
- RE 650 Twins
- Kawa z650/KRT/Versys
- Suzuki VStrom
- T100
- CBR650
- HD 750s
- anything else?
roy_libran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2018, 15:01   #154
BHPian
 
nasirkaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 936
Thanked: 899 Times
Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

Quote:
Guys - Let's not please turn this thread into a Himalayan or GS310 bashing thread. They have already been bashed enough, as products on different threads, and loved enough by their possessive owners on a few others.
Except maybe one post, we are just trying to discuss riding based experience on merits or demerits of one motorcycle over the other for the purpose of touring. TOURING on a motorcycle may project an image of a nice sunny highway, a big bike (mostly a cruiser or an adv tourer), big saddle bags/panniers, etc. but the real image of touring on two wheels in our country is much different and so are the practical challenges and hurdles, where big is a liability most of the time then luxury.

Quote:
Neither of these two products are particularly good for touring,
with no intention of drifting away from the topic of the thread, would really like you know as to how you have you come to conclusion that neither of the these two (GS and Himalayan) are particularly good for touring? I am really not aware if you have done long rides on these two bikes and if you have, would genuinely like to know the reasons behind this strong statement.

Quote:
70% + of the forum members seem to agree that the middle-weight segment is where the touring game really is.
The middle weight on the poll is mentioned as 400 to 800cc. Himalayan being a 410cc engine qualifies for it. And if Himalayan can qualify as a middle weight tourer as per the poll, there technically the 310 GS also should as its equal or better at most parameters. And that is where i had requested to break this 400 to 800cc segment into two (300-550 and 550-800), where my vote would have gone to 300-500cc instead of current 400-800.
Quoting Deelip Menzes who is a known rider from Goa with good amount of international touring experience, " Last time when I rode to this quarry off Colvale alone with my Tiger I was a little tense. This place is quite a way from civilisation and if I dropped the bike in a manner that I couldn’t pick it up by myself, I would be in a sticky situation. Today I rode my 310 GS here and basically didn’t think twice about where I was going and whether I was alone or not. The joy of riding a light adventure motorcycle. "

Last edited by nasirkaka : 10th December 2018 at 15:09.
nasirkaka is offline   (7) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2018, 16:10   #155
Senior - BHPian
 
ethanhunt123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,107
Thanked: 537 Times
Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
So, let's get back to discussing those products, and not the outliers -
- RE 650 Twins
- Kawa z650/KRT/Versys
- Suzuki VStrom
- T100
- CBR650
- HD 750s
- anything else?
Please add Tiger 800, BMW 750/850GS & Multistrada 950 to this list. And since when is T100 or HD750 become a "tourer" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasirkaka View Post
The middle weight on the poll is mentioned as 400 to 800cc. Himalayan being a 410cc engine qualifies for it. And if Himalayan can qualify as a middle weight tourer as per the poll, there technically the 310 GS also should as its equal or better at most parameters. And that is where i had requested to break this 400 to 800cc segment into two (300-550 and 550-800), where my vote would have gone to 300-500cc instead of current 400-800.
It should have been 600-950cc as middle weight ... since thats the category where most of middle-weight tourers lie. 300-500CC is Entry level tourers in most of the world - including 310GS, Versys 300-X & Himalayan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasirkaka View Post
Quoting Deelip Menzes who is a known rider from Goa with good amount of international touring experience, " Last time when I rode to this quarry off Colvale alone with my Tiger I was a little tense. This place is quite a way from civilisation and if I dropped the bike in a manner that I couldnít pick it up by myself, I would be in a sticky situation. Today I rode my 310 GS here and basically didnít think twice about where I was going and whether I was alone or not. The joy of riding a light adventure motorcycle. "
Touring can also be divided into 2 broad categories -

1. Go anywhere type adventure seekers for whom probably a lighter bike makes sense

2. People who want to stick to touring on tarmac or semi-paved roads. For whom bikes like 1200GS/Multistrada are the pinnacle of comfort, safety & performance
ethanhunt123 is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2018, 21:22   #156
BHPian
 
Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: St. Helier
Posts: 247
Thanked: 616 Times
Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

My understanding of motorcycles and motorcycling has gone through some evolution. As an e.g what mattered a lot in the past, like the number of pipes and colour scheme is different to what matters now - the weight of the motorcycle and safety/ABS. Or from how many kms I've ridden the motorcycle to what all memorable experiences I've had on it...

My wife and I do motorcycle touring across India a few times a year. We load our luggage (which includes hair dryers, hair straightening iron, SPF30 creams etc) and head out to unknown lands.. well maybe not, just head out to the next decent hotel with hot shower but that's not the point. Some of my trips are documented on TBHP, some not. Our normal trips would include:

1. anywhere between 2000-4500 kms of travelling
2. 50kgs of luggage and a total of 200 kgs on the motorcycle including our weight. No, I'm not giving the breakdown .
3. 10-15 days total trip time
4. 8-12 hours of travel time on the days we are on the motorcycle.

Even though I've voted for the mid segment, my 2 cents on the subject are:
  1. Motorcycle engine capacity is highly overrated. As long as a motorcycle can pull your load comfortably without overheating or breaking down it's the right capacity. Read Ted Simon's Jupiter's Travels to see what an unreliable 650cc twin could accomplish 30+years ago. Or closer home what Bharadwaj Dayala achieved on a humble Karizma - extraordinary feats of touring achieved on motorcycles that were not meant for what they were put through.
  2. Don't wait to buy the 'right' motorcycle to do what you want to, if you have one already, take it out and make the most of it: we have Triumph Bonneville mag wheel which wasn't designed for touring. We've done Delhi>Goa>Delhi on it and taken it to Ladakh and back and many more trips. A Tiger or Versys would have been a better choice but a Bonneville is all we had so we did what we had to, get on its back and - Tour! The best travelogues I have read are about journeys on humble scooters, WagonRs and Pulsars.

To us, motorcycling is what matters, the motorcycle is simply a means to achieve that end.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Bonneville. I spit and polish it, admire it parked and enjoy the places it has taken us to and the experiences it has put us through. If i rewind, and my experiences with it remain the same, it could have had a 300cc motor in it, or a 1200cc motor, it wouldn't have altered my love for it in anyway.

If you love motorcycles more than motorcycling, then by all means do scrutinise every little detail. In the end the love for motorcycling should triumph (excuse the pun) to the love for metal and rubber.

Cheers,
Sting
Sting is offline   (25) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2018, 01:27   #157
BHPian
 
MaheshY1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Tapukara
Posts: 270
Thanked: 451 Times
Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinprakas View Post
Here's another video of Ryan from Fortnine crossing a desert on the Yamaha TW200 a.k.a TDub, a motorcycle that has been mostly unchanged from the 80's, more like the Honda and Kawasaki 100cc 4T's in India, i.e if you like me is fine with disregarding the existence of SAI.
I watched that video within 30 min of uploading. And thought of sharing it on this thread but you had done it by then. I love how Ryan puts things across in the most beautiful and entertaining manner. I remember him saying that there are bikes that can go off-road, but with the TW, you can go off-trail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvd8732 View Post
Upgrade your existing bike. Let the pictures talk.
Lovely! I liked the side box modified as a top box. I didn't know something like this existed so I was always carrying what looked like a pizza delivery box on my Impulse. This one is now on my wishlist. It's much more usable day-to-day and doesn't look out of place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shumi_21 View Post
It's probably not fair to categorise the 300’s as ‘small’ motorcycles.
True. I plan to upgrade to the 300 once I learn to fully exploit the Gixxer SF. I seriously considered buying a colleague's well-maintained RC390 but I didn't have the skills to measure its strengths. Also, it's not commute-friendly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shumi_21 View Post
In the meantime, I will continue to tour on what I have, until I can get what I want!
Same here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
Touring can also be divided into 2 broad categories -

1. Go anywhere type adventure seekers for whom probably a lighter bike makes sense

2. People who want to stick to touring on tarmac or semi-paved roads. For whom bikes like 1200GS/Multistrada are the pinnacle of comfort, safety & performance
Finally, something we can agree on. I happen to fall in the first category. That's why the CRF 250 would be better for me. Even if that means I have to sacrifice some tarmac performance. Because I'll have another bike strictly for well-paved roads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasirkaka View Post
Quoting Deelip Menzes who is a known rider from Goa with good amount of international touring experience, " Last time when I rode to this quarry off Colvale alone with my Tiger I was a little tense. This place is quite a way from civilisation and if I dropped the bike in a manner that I couldn’t pick it up by myself, I would be in a sticky situation. Today I rode my 310 GS here and basically didn’t think twice about where I was going and whether I was alone or not. The joy of riding a light adventure motorcycle. "
Exactly my point. A lighter, simpler bike would give me the confidence to literally explore the unknown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting View Post
Motorcycle engine capacity is highly overrated.
O..M..G! That's bound to piss off participants of the ****-measuring contest. If all I'm going to do with my 2.5kg hand is type, then it's dead weight that could be affecting the words-per-minute figure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting View Post
Don't wait to buy the 'right' motorcycle to do what you want to, if you have one already, take it out and make the most of it. The best travelogues I have read are about journeys on humble scooters, WagonRs and Pulsars.

To us, motorcycling is what matters, the motorcycle is simply a means to achieve that end.

If you love motorcycles more than motorcycling, then by all means do scrutinise every little detail. In the end the love for motorcycling should triumph (excuse the pun) to the love for metal and rubber.
Isn't that what unites us all...the spirit of riding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
The gradients were much much steeper.
I agree. Wide angle lenses make it look easy.

This is an old photo. After doing the Off-Road Adventure Zone track with ease, I decided to attack one incline from the side. I failed. I dropped the Navi several times. But I had a lot of fun that day. I don't think I would have even attempted to do this with a Himalayan or a Tiger, or anything heavier than my Impulse.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attac...1&d=1544471916
Attached Images
 

Last edited by MaheshY1 : 11th December 2018 at 01:37.
MaheshY1 is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2018, 08:25   #158
Team-BHP Support
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: India
Posts: 11,731
Thanked: 30,456 Times
Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaheshY1 View Post
O..M..G! That's bound to piss off participants of the ****-measuring contest.
For the person who is complaining of everyone else competing, I doubt if anyone else here is so aggressively trying to prove others wrong!

And that kind of drowns out other valid points that you say.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2018, 08:30   #159
BHPian
 
Kosfactor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: bangalore
Posts: 276
Thanked: 446 Times
Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

We are on a big vs small touring bike debate.

I observed the following things.

Whatever bike you have is the best touring bike.
Honda Navi is considered a motorcycle as well, good for touring.
Engine size does not matter.
Versys,Tiger and similar seems to be the bike everyone wants.
Purpose built small touring bikes like GS are great for prospecting.

So what about the top selling elephant in the room? RE350, where does that fit in?
Kosfactor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2018, 08:38   #160
Senior - BHPian
 
Red Liner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,811
Thanked: 2,401 Times
Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
So what about the top selling elephant in the room? RE350, where does that fit in?
In the service center

Royal enfields were our only choices of high capacity motorcycles back in the days of the license raj. That has changed now. No point in bringing the elephant to the party.
Red Liner is offline   (12) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2018, 10:41   #161
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,071
Thanked: 1,180 Times
Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
In the service center

Royal enfields were our only choices of high capacity motorcycles back in the days of the license raj. That has changed now. No point in bringing the elephant to the party.
Well that is a bit harsh mate. Bashing an Enfield will only go this far. There are STILL A LOT of people who do touring in India on Enfield's. Most of the foreigners I saw in Manali, Shimla, Leh, etc circuit were indeed touring on RE, not that they have a dearth of choice but still, I tell what I observe.

True that RE CI Bullet is one of the legacies of the British Raj like IR, English, Howrah Bridge, Administration, and many many more. Coming to license raj, during those days everything was limited and not just motorcycles. Today we do have many choices and one can buy what they like but bashing RE will go only this far, because the FACT is RE is still in production since 1901 and is the highest selling motorcycle in the 350-500cc category and soon will be in 650cc category as well. There are many including me who still choose to tour on it.

About the Elephant comment, with the launch of RE 650 twins the Elephant just got bigger from the looks, reviews and number of bookings it has garnered.

Eagerly waiting for Sid Lal to offer an ADV enthusiast like me a Himalayan 650.
navin_v8 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2018, 12:24   #162
BHPian
 
nasirkaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 936
Thanked: 899 Times
Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

Quote:
To us, motorcycling is what matters, the motorcycle is simply a means to achieve that end.
As a big bonnie fan and an ex-owner of an SE 865, i have read some of your travelogue and really admire the spirit of your tours. Have also been referring your stories to others about not being stuck with type of motorcycle and its limitations, but just do what you want to to.
Having said that, there could be various means to achieve that end. its like whether one wants to do it the hard way, easy way, comfortable way, safer way, etc, and would depend on individuals choice/preference. If the end is experience of touring on a motorcycle in India, would it not be better to choose the means as something which over a period of time, is been designed to do the task comparatively well. For eg, i can play shuttle with tennis shoes on, but wouldn't it be better to use the shuttle shoe which is evolved based on the court surface, body movement, non-marking, etc. From this thread itself, its clear that people have done all sort of tours on all typres of vehicles, including a busa, auto, scooty pep, & such varied vehicles doing the Leh circuit.

I also wonder why do we have to stick to a motorcycle and why cant we change them based on our usage, or maybe even have more than one. We have all grown from touring on bullets, karizmas, yezdis, etc to other newer offerings. I could have kept my machismo 350 and continued touring on it, but i realised its shortfalls and there were other better motorcycles suiting my need, so i traded the machismo for other and that other some something other and so on. With time, our requirements, limitations, outlook, capablities etc change and we change the means to achieve that end in a way which suits us at that point in time. Bonnie is a classic & great bike and folks have done wonders with it including RTW, but am sure you would agree that there are better purpose built motorcycles to do mumbai - ladakh - mumbai having better GC, better suspension, wind protection, tank range, luggage carrying capability, safety features, etc. You choosing a bonnie over other bikes is purely a personal choice. Am sure would would have owned and rode other motorcycles before bonnie and the fact that you love to tour on the bonnie does have something to do with the motorcycles as well. all i am trying to say is i am not sure if motorcycles can be simply disconnected from motorcycling, i guess they are two sides of the same coin.
nasirkaka is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2018, 13:53   #163
Senior - BHPian
 
ethanhunt123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,107
Thanked: 537 Times
Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shumi_21 View Post
It's probably not fair to categorise the 300ís as Ďsmallí motorcycles.
Sorry but universally 250-300cc bikes are considered as beginner/small motorcycles. There is a huge difference in power/performance between them and the middle weight 600-950cc bikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shumi_21 View Post
In the meantime, I will continue to tour on what I have, until I can get what I want!
Perfectly said ! 90% of touring is the rider ... 10% is the bike. Dont wait for the perfect bike to come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
In the service center
Well said .... the Classic 350/500 are 80's tech being sold in 21st century at inflated prices. They deserve to be in service centers or museums.
ethanhunt123 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2018, 14:37   #164
BHPian
 
Kosfactor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: bangalore
Posts: 276
Thanked: 446 Times
Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Royal enfields were our only choices of high capacity motorcycles back in the days of the license raj. That has changed now. No point in bringing the elephant to the party.
You will be surprised if you take a look at the scene now, within the 2L bracket the first four items in bikewale is RE350 siblings, as far as offerings go, there is not much to look at apart from Jawa and RE, Jawa is yet to hit the roads, so cannot say much now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
Well that is a bit harsh mate. Bashing an Enfield will only go this far. There are STILL A LOT of people who do touring in India on Enfield's.

Eagerly waiting for Sid Lal to offer an ADV enthusiast like me a Himalayan 650.
Why the devotion to RE? Why not pick up what suits your needs best rather than wait for RE to offer it to you?

If money is no object, would you still stick with RE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasirkaka View Post
If the end is experience of touring on a motorcycle in India, would it not be better to choose the means as something which over a period of time, is been designed to do the task comparatively well.

I also wonder why do we have to stick to a motorcycle and why cant we change them based on our usage, or maybe even have more than one.

. all i am trying to say is i am not sure if motorcycles can be simply disconnected from motorcycling, i guess they are two sides of the same coin.
Makes perfect sense, and the message is clear. There is no one bike garage if you have Touring in mind, since the tiger wont go get milk for you!

Since scooters have taken over the town, the days of commuter motorcycles are over - almost.

I consider the existence of motorcycle itself is to have fun while traveling, may as well get a good one.
Kosfactor is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2018, 14:53   #165
BHPian
 
ashwinprakas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Kollam
Posts: 904
Thanked: 2,310 Times
Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
Sorry but universally 250-300cc bikes are considered as beginner/small motorcycles. There is a huge difference in power/performance between them and the middle weight 600-950cc bikes.
Size is and has always been a relative term.

So what might be big somewhere else might seem to be small here and vice-versa, hence unless resorting to primitive 'monkey see, monkey do' tactic I feel that going by "Universal" categorizations for motorcycles being ridden on Indian roads might be a tad bit misleading.

Because with our severely limited structural and informational infrastructure even the likes of a 375cc motorcycle which universally is a small motorcycle can be a handful on our roads.

That's just me, so do feel free to correct me.
ashwinprakas is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Big Money + Big Talent = The overpriced market dud. How? GTO The Indian Car Scene 171 25th June 2013 17:24
Wonder why the big multi-axles are big killers? ph03n!x Commercial Vehicles 8 6th May 2011 09:44
A big big "Hi!" from Chity Bang chity_bang Introduce yourself 5 25th June 2007 23:26
A choice between a Big B and a Small C? Rock 'n' rollz Hatchbacks 22 1st March 2006 13:05
Small car vs Big car Surprise Shifting gears 2 4th April 2005 14:34


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 01:13.

Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks