[Red Liner]

A commuter vs the BMW G310 GS

https://youtu.be/qjWK-OzzmxQ

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Ducati calls it a myth! Tries to explain in this video, and thankfully with subtitles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5Bb9t7nXN0

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Ducati calls it a myth! Tries to explain in this video, and thankfully with subtitles

The title did raise some expectations that weren't met, as the video turned out to share commonsense which I'm presuming might be due to their consumers only being exposed to purpose oriented machines unlike the common lot here who use the same motorcycle for everything.

But one thing that caught my attention was how he suggests the use of the rear brake instead of the front, which is something I've seen other videos contradict by suggesting the use of the front brake since it carries more weight when rolling down trails, something which is against my understanding as well as experience.

Also backed up by my pad wear;



And it does make me feel better as I was doubting my understanding after going through the earlier mentioned videos(which I'm pretty sure were the result of the lock-down blues).

Thanks for the Share!
A.P.

[Red Liner]

Coming down a hill, using the front brake, locks the front wheel, wheel that doesn’t turn free, doesn’t have traction, also locks the steering and doesn’t allow you to steer to safety. Sometimes the front wheel abs is intermittent on more expensive bikes, a very unnerving feeling.

Using the rear brake (trail braking or tapping the lever) allows you to shed speed but keep the bike moving along the line you want and keeps the steering unlocked and free to steer. Rear abs deactivated allows you to force lock the wheel to make quick direction changes or halts if need be.

All easier on a small light weight bike than on a big one.

[Vasuki]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

But one thing that caught my attention was how he suggests the use of the rear brake instead of the front, which is something I've seen other videos contradict by suggesting the use of the front brake since it carries more weight when rolling down trails, something which is against my understanding as well as experience.

And it does make me feel better as I was doubting my understanding after going through the earlier mentioned videos(which I'm pretty sure were the result of the lock-down blues).

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Coming down a hill, using the front brake, locks the front wheel, wheel that doesn’t turn free, doesn’t have traction, also locks the steering and doesn’t allow you to steer to safety. Sometimes the front wheel abs is intermittent on more expensive bikes, a very unnerving feeling.

Using the rear brake (trail braking or tapping the lever) allows you to shed speed but keep the bike moving along the line you want and keeps the steering unlocked and free to steer.

+1, experienced it first hand. I was on my Z800 while going to Tripunithura from Kalvari Mount.

Encountered a steep trail. I normally use my front brakes all the time, rear brake usage is literally nil.

So went along in the same lines and nearly lost my front end, really struggled to get back the composure, but succeeded atlast.

Unniettan (@kozhissery) always used to remark about usage of rear brake in off road conditions. Learned it the hard way, but really glad to have learned that as it helped me lot in my Spiti trip.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by Vasuki

always used to remark about usage of rear brake in off road conditions. Learned it the hard way, but really glad to have learned that as it helped me lot in my Spiti trip.

Its famously said, rear brake has many usage, stopping the bike is not one of them.

[Vasuki]

Originally Posted by Sheel

Its famously said, rear brake has many usage, stopping the bike is not one of them.

Yes, quite true. Aggressive braking and stopping require the front brakes, but nowadays bikes come with very good rear brakes which helps us to cut down the good speed and stop.

During my recent Gujarat trip, was using more rear brakes, as I wanted front brake pads to last the entire trip. I had already done 3000 km on the current brake pads and the entire trip was almost 6715 km. So used the rear brakes most of the time and found that it has quite good stopping power.

Yes during emergency, nothing beats the front brake.

[Red Liner]

Simple mantra: Rear brakes on the trail, front brakes off the trail.

[ashwinprakas]

Not sure if this info is worth anything since rider aids have become the norm, but sharing nonetheless.

On tarmac the notion is that the front brake performs a standalone function, but that is not the case.

It is recommended to always use the rear brake before going at the front brake, so as to aid in weight transfer which not only prevents the front wheel from breaking traction but also reduces chances of the rear wheel lifting off the ground.

Quoting one of the older sources of motorcycling info on the internet:

Start with the rear brake
When you want to brake with the shortest possible braking distance, you start by using the rear brake. Of course, you don't slam it. In fact, you only use the rear brake to start a process of shifting weight from the rear to the front wheel. This will cause the springs to get contracted, which will decrease the chance of a lifting rear wheel, and which will stabilize the bike.

A little bit later the front
By using the rear brake first, there is already more weight on the front wheel at the moment that you start using the front brake. Because of that, you can squeeze the front brake harder than when you would have started braking with the front brake.

Lay on and squeeze through
But even then, it is not advisable to squeeze the front brake as hard as you can, at least not in the beginning. You should start gently and then squeeze on while the weight keeps shifting to the front, because the grip of the front wheel will then be at its best.

To imagine what "squeeze on" means, imagine squeezing half a lemon.

Squeeze on
It is here that many motorcycle riders don't get out of their bike what it is capable of. Maybe, when you realize that at this point, the front wheel really has the most grip, you will be able to squeeze the handle as hard as you can.

Speed
With a lot of speed, you will be able to brake really hard: because of the high speed, shifting the weight to the front will take place with speed as well, and that means that you can start earlier squeezing the front brake.

When you ride fast, even sitting upright will decelerate the bike considerately. On the other side, the same resistance of the air will slow down the shifting of the weight to the front, so even then, start using the rear brake.

No rear brake
At the moment that you can use much front brake, the opposite is true for the rear brake: there is almost no weight on the rear wheel.

So, after touching the rear brake, let it go.

Source: Tips for braking on a motorcycle

This is more essential for those who do not believe in riding a motorcycle in its power band(stupid move), something that was reinforced the hard way when I decided to cruise at lazy RPM's in final gear on a weekend run from Kochi to Kollam via the MC Route, fortunately I wrecked within 10 km's of starting my ride courtesy a rickshaw guy who decided to merge without a care in the world.

So to reiterate;

Rear Brake on the Trails, Both Brakes on the Tarmac.

P.S.

This also brings to mind something a seasoned enthusiast taught me almost a decade ago, he goes by the name of Dan Pada on social media, his lesson on Panic Braking was simple;

"Both Levers In, Both Pedals Down"

Which basically meant that you should keep downshifting and use both brakes in a panic situation on tarmac, this ensured that you stop without wrecking and when you do you're in 1st gear so that you can power your way out of a sticky situation that might follow, like say, get out of the way of oncoming traffic etc..

Also goes without saying, this is perfected by frequent practice, something I follow to date when I get access to empty sections.

Ride Safe,
A.P.

[PatienceWins]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

So to reiterate;

Rear Brake on the Trails, Both Brakes on the Tarmac.

P.S.

This also brings to mind something a seasoned enthusiast taught me almost a decade ago, he goes by the

Which basically meant that you should keep downshifting and use both brakes in a panic situation on tarmac, this ensured that you stop without wrecking and when you do you're in 1st gear so that you can power your way out of a sticky situation that might follow, like say, get out of the way of oncoming traffic etc..

Also goes without saying, this is perfected by frequent practice, something I follow to date when I get access to empty sections.

Ride Safe,
A.P.

Thanks for sharing, something for me to try as I have the habit of using only front brakes. Braking is of utmost importance as it helps a biker to stay alive/ safe.

Regarding downshifting on panic breaking, do we get the time to downshift frantically and use engine braking along with brakes? I use engine braking when I notice a speed breaker late; but in panic situations, like someone crossing the road suddenly, the response time allows only brake usage.

Just sharing my thoughts while analyzing my previous mishaps. Ignore if it is a stupid question.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

Thanks for sharing, something for me to try as I have the habit of using only front brakes. Braking is of utmost importance as it helps a biker to stay alive/ safe.

I too use *only* the front brake when I am riding on the tarmac. And I believe, it is enough to take of all your braking needs if you are on tar. Reason why, we have bigger dual discs up front and a very small one at the back.

I recall, when P-220 came out, its rear brake was bigger than that of the recently launched R1.

Braking while you are off-road is a different ball game altogether. It is almost the entire opposite.

[AirbusCapt]

Originally Posted by tanuj_afc

I am following this thread quite closely because I am in the market for a touring bike more so an adventure tourer. So, what are my requirements??

- Comfortable upright sitting position
- Proper wind protection
- Refined and stress free engine which could easily cruise at 120 kmph
- Can take on any terrain
- panniers and top box mounts

Try a Versys 650. Will suit all your requirements above (except service interval), costs half that of a Africa twin and is bulletproof.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by AirbusCapt

Try a Versys 650. Will suit all your requirements above (except service interval), costs half that of a Africa twin and is bulletproof.

Versys has not arrived in its BS6 avatar yet. But the VStrom 650 XT ABS BS6 is coming soon.

With the 2020 pricing of the Africa twin, both these bikes are a steal in comparison.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

I have the habit of using only front brakes.

Braking also differs when it comes to the motorcycle you own, on my P220 when I had the stock suspension setup if I were to jab the front without the rear then that'd result in the front breaking traction or pushing me sideways.

This is a result of its weight bias, something that changed drastically when I'd shifted to taller suspension at the rear, now even without the rear I can hammer the front brake and come to a screeching halt without loosing composure.

But I still prefer to follow the tried and tested technique as it helps avoid mishaps when shifting between motorcycles.

EDIT:

Adding more info from earlier mentioned source regarding the same:

Differences between motorcycles

These tips on how to brake optimal though, cannot tell you much about exactly how long you should keep using the rear brake, or at which moment you can start really squeezing the front brake: that's different for each motorcycle.

Sometimes almost no rear brake
On a motorcycle that has a lot of weight on the front even without braking, you should let the rear brake go almost immediately (it always pays to use it at the start!).

Motorcycles with that property have a short wheel base, and their front wheel is almost directly under the steer: sporty motorcycles.

Sometimes a lot of rear brake
On other motorcycles, you should keep the rear brake working during the whole braking maneuver. Those are motorcycles with a long wheel base, and a front fork that sticks out to the front, which prevents the weight to be carried all by the front wheel.

The most extreme form are drag-racers. Cruisers have the same geometry but a bit less radical. Their geometry has the property that the braking distance is longer than on sport bikes, and also that you need the rear brake during braking to get the most out of it.

Geometry
So, in short, hard braking methods differ depending on the kind of bike and its design. Sports bikes have shorter wheel base lengths and steeper frame geometry hence they have more weight forward than a long wheel base cruiser or a loaded tourer. Road bikes will come in the middle and therefore will vary.

Essentially, hard braking with the rear brake first is to push weight forward and so is done whilst riding cruisers and tourers and road bikes. Cruisers will use the rear brake during the whole maneuver.

With sports bikes, you will only lightly touch the rear brake for a very short moment (or only apply the front brake, if that's too difficult).

Remember that carrying a pillion will certainly demand the use of the rear brake first.

Luggage
With a heavily loaded motorcycle (a pillion rider, camping gear), your motorcycle will shift its weight during braking less than you are used to. In that case, you will have to use the rear brake more that you are used to, for an optimal braking distance.

Watch out when squeezing
On a motorcycle that dives heavily, you should be careful while squeezing the front brake: if you brake so hard that the front springs are pushed in to their full capacity, your front wheel will lock very easily, and if this prolongs, the motorbike will slide down.

On motorcycles with a long suspension travel, you should be aware of the fact that it will take longer before the front wheel has enough weight, which means that it will take longer before you can squeeze really hard.
There is a great risk of locking the front when squeezing too soon.

The same applies for motorcycles that need the rear brake during the whole braking maneuver: they don't get enough weight on the front to really use the front brake to its maximum.

In sport bikes, the opposite is true: you should watch out for the rear wheel lifting from the ground. That is easy to control, by loosen you grip on the brake handle a bit.

When your rear wheel lifts, you know for sure that until that

Regarding downshifting on panic breaking, do we get the time to downshift frantically and use engine braking along with brakes?

Depends, if you make it a habit to ride the motorcycle within its power band then downshifting would be second nature.

Else if you ride Indian style then you'd be stuck in a taller gear when you'd come to a halt, this is not ideal when it comes to safety.

Reason being for the constant mesh transmission in your motorcycle to properly shift gears it needs the rear wheel to be in motion i.e you have until the motorcycle comes to a halt to shift into 1st gear else you'd be a sitting duck at the mercy of traffic behind you.

Ride Safe,
A.P.

[shyamg28]

This here is a gem of a thread for a newbie to read. I know it's old but was woken up today so I got a chance to read all 16 pages of it.

I read an article by the famous Shumi which made a ton of sense, not particularly new to most, but written well enough to appease all segment of enthusiasts, me thinks: http://overdrive.in/news-cars-auto/o...ng-fast-bikes/

Armchair biker's opinion - the V-Strom 650 makes for the best buy for India. 19-inch spokes, tubeless, seat height, torque (city riding), top-end (effortless cruising on highways), traction control and switchable ABS. If I had the money, I would buy this just based on the countless reviews I've read.