[rb2399]

Jumping in the fray here

Background: I've owned a 2017 Duke that had done close to 53,000 KMs before I sold her off and went in for the ADV. To my credit, I had been to places between Kashmir and Kanyakumari on her. This also included a ride to Gurudongmar in North Sikkim.
The ADV has done just a shed over 9,000 KMs which includes a recent ride to Pangi valley in HP.

So, after riding both bikes for decent KMs , I think ADV wins it for me.

Reasons ?
* Bigger fuel tank --> Can eek out close to 500 KMs on the ADV compared to ~ 350 odd on my Duke.
* Better ergos --> No comparison here really. ADV wins hands down. I've added bar raisers to the ADV and that has taken the riding position to next level comfort wise.
* Quick-shifter --> This has proved to be a real boon while tackling the tricky terrain in the Himalayas. It's been a revelation of sorts for me at least. None of my earlier bikes had one and I am really happy with it.
* Headlights --> Leaps and bound ahead of the ones on the Duke.
* Engine --> Somehow the engine feels lot more tamed on the ADV as compared to the manic one on the Duke (although the rev ranges are near about similar). I prefer this.
* Riding while standing up --> Never attempted doing this on the Duke but it came naturally to me while riding the ADV and I am loving it :-)

I get that these two bikes share the same engine and other components too. But for me at least, character wise they are very different.

Price is something which is very subjective and one can argue about it forever ! A company does its own math and offers you something with a price tag. If you feel it's right, just go ahead and buy it BUT please don't say it should have been X Rs cheaper and all. Does not make sense to me at all.

Just to summarize, has to be the ADV if one is serious about going places far and wide !

[Beast_of_Burden]

Originally Posted by rb2399

Jumping in the fray here

Just to summarize, has to be the ADV if one is serious about going places far and wide !

Very good summary! Fortnine got it totally wrong, the ADV is the Duke I wanted. Don't save the money, get the better bike.

[nitro.1000bhp]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Sorry for the OT but Impulses are there too, doing quite well. I'm trying to get a friend to buy a used Adv and strip it off its front beak and the tank shrouds and make it into a dirt spec hardcore machine to go up against the 350 and 450 KTM thoroughbreds on the cheap.

Let's see ....

Cheers, Doc

I'd refrain from doing that. Problem with converting a road bike to an off roader is the distance between the head stock to the swingarm pivot point on a road bike chassis is almost always smaller than on an off roader. This means if you jack up the front forks the pivot point also rises..and to compensate you will have to raise the rear shock and in doing so your seat height will be so high you will have to get on the bike from your first floor balcony. And the geometry also goes for a toss so the handling might be severely affected.

If you want to do it right get a complete trellis frame from a equally sized (engine size/weight) off-roader and suspension to suit and try to shoehorn the engine in. Legality might be a concern here but I think that's a better deal than a wonky handling bike.

Just my 2 paisa.
Cheers.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by nitro.1000bhp

I'd refrain from doing that. Problem with converting a road bike to an off roader is the distance between the head stock to the swingarm pivot point on a road bike chassis is almost always smaller than on an off roader. This means if you jack up the front forks the pivot point also rises..and to compensate you will have to raise the rear shock and in doing so your seat height will be so high you will have to get on the bike from your first floor balcony. And the geometry also goes for a toss so the handling might be severely affected.

If you wants to do it right get a complete trellis frame from a equally sized off-roader and suspension to suit and try to shoehorn the engine in. Legality might be a concern here but I think that's a better deal than a wonky handling bike.

Just my 2 paisa.
Cheers.

I think you misunderstood. I wasn't talking about any structural mods to the chassis or suspension of the Adv at all.

Just stripping it completely of all body panels and unwanted flab.

The entire front beak and cockpit - gone.

The side panels - gone.

The mudguards - gone.

The bark busters - gone.

The tank false panels - gone

The side air scoop thingies - gone.

The tail assembly and attached appendages - gone.

Add on decent off road tyres.

And have fun as she is, bog stock (not even a silencer swap), without being afraid of dropping her and breaking stuff (with no stuff left to break).

Cheers, Doc

P.S. The thoroughbreds weigh just over 100 kilos. Even with all of this gone the Adv will still be a portly lass.

[petrolhead_neel]

Very interesting discussion going on in this thread. Love it!

I started riding trails on my CB Twister. Proper body position, throttle control, braking: didn't know anything. It was only supposed to be a substitute for real riding until I turned 18. Two or three rides in, I was addicted. Every weekend was time to discover and ride trails. That's how the first year went. Last year, I got more serious and started reading up - bikes, bike setup and most importantly, riding.

Ellie, my Twister, got some cheap modifications done to perform better off road. I spent a long time tweaking the handlebar setup and deciding what tyres to get. Both of the modifications transformed how the bike behaved off road. I had remembered Doc's recommendation of the Michelin Sirac Street, and that's what I got for the rear.

This year, the XPulse happened. Now, I realize what it feels like to ride a bike that was fundamentally designed for a specific purpose.

All of this, on the 390 thread because I can find similarities. I saw one a few days back (aside a Himalayan, in the Himalayas, coincidentally) and I really want to ride it. I have realised that dual sports are the most fun to ride in India, and if the 390A gets more people onto these bikes, I am ALL for it.

On its own, the 390A is great, as has been established on this thread already. But we had expectations, and I don't think they were unreasonable. I haven't ridden either, but if I had to pick, I would probably pick Doc's 390 set up for trail riding or Urban Nomad's 390 with the front off the XPulse. And that says a lot, I think.

Now that I am used to the XPulse and learning how to properly ride off road, things like standing position matter a lot to me. The XPulse, even with its subtle ergonomic flaws, gives me a very reassuring and confidence inspiring saddling stance that I can maintain for a long time. The tank can be gripped really well. The last shot in the FortNine film gave me horrendous flashbacks of the time I almost went over the bars on my Twister, which has a very similar stand up stance. Spoked wheels, tyres, even suspension: these are feasible upgrades. However, messing with the rider's triangle and ergonomics is sketchy business, as I've found out.
So, for me, the 390 Adventure isn't really an upgrade from the XPulse (again, I am yet to ride one). Also, I firmly believe and love Doc's philosophy of one bike that does it all, with compromises that aren't really compromises to that particular rider.

I am proud of the Indian biking community in a lot of ways. We really do use what we have, like the Impulse acing MX races. Likewise, it's awesome to see people tour and ride trails on the 390 Adventure. The Duke 390 has been a proven platform for a lot of rally and trail builds. Maybe, the 390 Adventure is the better platform now.

Cheers,
Neel

[petrolhead_neel]

I think this video has been shared on this thread before. It's probably the most comprehensive and technical test on the internet about this bike. Sharing it again, because it's very relevant to the current discussion. He discusses the footpeg issue as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3O4l0D3Sj4

Here's something that came up on YouTube. Nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFf8bfEeasM

Neel

[ebonho]

Nice video Neel. Thanks for sharing. One thing I got out of it (besides all the tech gizmo features which frankly I've not grown up with and never used while riding) is the reason why I was confused to rb2399 calling his bike "tamer than his Duke" and me in my short ride coming away with the impression that it's motor was a lot nicer feeling and peppier than "his Duke".

Remember his Duke is/waa the "new" Duke. Not the club wielding, grunting and anal belching(!) caveman that some of us still ride from 2013.

Also a technosaurus (tech dinosaurus) question.

If quick shifter handles the rev match blipping and clutching for you for upshifts as well as downshifts, then why does a bike that has it still come with a clutch. Why don't the manufacturers do away with it like they did the venerable kick starter? Is it only to maintain the symmetric "look" of the handlebar?

Cheers, Doc

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Also a technosaurus (tech dinosaurus) question.

If quick shifter handles the rev match blipping and clutching for you for upshifts as well as downshifts, then why does a bike that has it still come with a clutch. Why don't the manufacturers do away with it like they did the venerable kick starter? Is it only to maintain the symmetric "look" of the handlebar?

Cheers, Doc

Because you still need a clutch to get you out offroad if stuck, or you need better feather control of the throttle/brake. Quickshifters wont help you out there.

A fully automatic box like the africa twin has done away with the clutch lever altogether.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Because you still need a clutch to get you out offroad if stuck, or you need better feather control of the throttle/brake. Quickshifters wont help you out there.

A fully automatic box like the africa twin has done away with the clutch lever altogether.

And I guess to wait at and take off from standstill.

I do like front wheel ABS though of all the newer rider aids.

Cheers, Doc

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

After the Fortnine scare last week, here are some honest words from Shumi, along with Kartikeya Singhee -

https://youtu.be/TW42boRbXc4

The conclusion sounds pretty familiar to Ryan's.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

After the Fortnine scare last week, here are some honest words from Shumi, along with Kartikeya Singhee -

The conclusion sounds pretty familiar to Ryan's.

Duke - tight.

Adv - disconnected.

Spot on.

And I just learned that its only us first lot 390 guys who stop every 180-200 km. I did not know (or it never registered) that the "new" Duke is just a liter less in tank range than the Adv.

To me, that actually takes away one very important point for the Adv over the Duke. Few as they are.

Cheers, Doc

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

It feels bad to see people talk down a bike just based on specification comparisons and some exaggerated expectations without truly testing to see if the bike matches their intentions and abilities. I mean it's a loss of good information on how well the bike really does.

Unfortunately even after putting out logical reasoning, some people remain deadbeat about their foregone conclusions. I have ridden a first gen duke and now i bought this adventure, and every single thing about the two bikes are night and day. And i have owned both bikes for almost the same mileage so far. And another dude above has used the new gen 390 and got the adventure and says the same.

[drt_rdr]

@CrAzY dRiVeR: The conclusion sounds the same, but the reasoning process to reach the conclusion isn't at all. Not even a mention of the slanted pegs which means the riders either did not mind it or were not experienced enough to spot any disadvantages due to that or did not test it thoroughly enough to notice issues.

----

These guys have a good point that most indians don't use motorcycles for any sort of focused use, and that the duke is going to be enough. But it seems to me that that would be exactly why the adventure might to be an even better fit, because it's a jack of all bike by design that can satisfactorily do what a majority of riders ask of and even have some left over capabilities.

These guys categorize use case by city, touring and offroad\roughroad as if they're all very distinct things that don't ever overlap each other. I wonder how that compares to reality though. In my riding experience, they're all mixed and I'd rather have a dual purpose bike than a roadbike for the conditions I live\have lived in.

Having spent a number of years commuting through bangalore's traffic, I really appreciate a motorcycle that gives me confidence to easily handle the unpredictability of typical indian road surfaces, gives me a good view of what's ahead and the ability to actually take shortcuts that other motorcyclists would dare not, which means I could cut ahead of traffic or even skip entire roads during peak hours. My hero impulse has been an amazing companion that has kept me sane during my commutes.

If you only tour by smooth roads, national highways and such, the duke will more than suffice. But that's missing the point. Isn't the point of the adventure to take roads less traveled? The advantage of a dual sport\adventure bike in that the hardware allows you to relatively comfortably take back roads, dirt trails and such to your destination, and that really broadens your choice of route, has a big impact on riding fatigue, and can potentially make the trip more enjoyable. I've done enough of this kind of touring on roadbikes to appreciate the difference, and it's a big one. I would honestly not dare to do the kinds of riding I've done on my impulse on any roadbike.

As for the dirt, fair enough about the ground clearance and lack of 21 inch wheels compared to the competition. But let's be real. You'd really have to be pushing it on rough terrain and doing things like log-hopping and stuff or be completely ignoring basic dirt riding techniques to objectively miss the extra 2 centimetres GC that's there on the himalayan and xpulse. To put it in perspective, 2 cm is the diameter of an old 2 rupee coin give or take a couple milimetres. And that's without taking into account suspension sag when a rider gets on. Besides, this bike comes out of the factory with a skidplate. i don't see a big issue.

Also, adding 21 inch wheels would compromise its road behaviour. If the adventure is claimed to be within the ballpark of the handling on the duke, it's because of the 19 inchers and shorter suspension. I think 19 is good enough for the intent of this vehicle. Even the impulse came with 19 inchers and coupled that with the soft front suspension, it's not a nimble bike on the road and it's especially felt in the traffic.

It feels bad to see people talk down a bike just based on specification comparisons and some exaggerated expectations without truly testing to see if the bike matches their intentions and abilities. I mean it's a loss of good information on how well the bike really does.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

After the Fortnine scare last week, here are some honest words from Shumi, along with Kartikeya Singhee -

https://Youtu.be/TW42boRbXc4

The conclusion sounds pretty familiar to Ryan's.

What the PD guys don't address is: what if i want to do both highway touring and have a blast on enduro trails on the same trip?

The only bikes that fit this category for a novice dirt explorer are the G310 GS, the Versys 300, and the 390 adventure. Himalayan is way low down on power, better compares with the Xpulse.

So tell me, which one would you get? A first gen Duke 390?

That was their advice, wasn't it.

This is a real review done by someone who really knows how to ride dirt bikes. Please watch it!

https://youtu.be/Im-hM_wVIrg

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

But no, we will listen to some guy pandering stuff to a western audience, and two fat old guys sitting on camping chairs sipping god knows what offering a discourse on how they need long travel suspension and a 21 inch front wheel to even mention the word offroad.

I agree with you completely Red Liner. Put simply, even a 19” front wheel vs a 17” inch front wheel will change the riding/cornering dynamics, the longer travel suspension, even more. This is besides the other differences.

Unfortunately, this discussion is influenced (unconsciously) by the price differential than any other factor. The difference in many people’s book doesn’t warrant the 50k (ex-showroom) or so more. This is more a matter of that perception than anything else. It’s generally impossible to get people to agree on what’s “value for money” or not. One man’s food is another man’s poison.

Now ask the same people, IF the ADV and the Duke were priced the same, which one would they choose and why. Of course, the main consideration being, one motorcycle to do it all. Only then we will come to know the real story.

Cheers