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Old 28th June 2020, 12:24   #16
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Default re: Covid infections & deaths at Bajaj Auto's Waluj factory

So many areas of Bangalore are under lock-down. Bugle rock, JC Road, SP Road, 80 Ft road in JPN. Important roads, these. Also, many hotels are shut
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Originally Posted by Miyata View Post
True. Quite a few of the pharma companies in Bangalore that were running at 30% employee attendance have had some covid positive cases reported. At least one of them has stepped back towards a lockdown like situation again. None of it is in news, but those working in the pharma sector will be aware - my wife works in this sector
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Old 29th June 2020, 03:19   #17
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Default re: Covid infections & deaths at Bajaj Auto's Waluj factory

Oh, this again?!!

Are we going to slow-roast every entrepreneur who is starting back after this gut-punch of a lockdown? Or is our collective "love" only reserved for Rajiv Bajaj because he had the audacity to speak up against the lockdown?

Those of us saying that RB doesn't have any idea about the difficulties of the common man and that he can keep himself safe; well, that is not entirely correct. The virus is highly transmittive, even to the point that people with very little outside contact are catching it. I know of at least two cases.

Also, those expecting RB to work the shop floor; well, how would that work? What if something happens to him? I mean, would we also require our honorable PM and the cabinet to stand and fight with soldiers in the frontline? What if they end up as casualties? Who will run the country then?

Fact is that each of us has a role to play in the grand scheme of things. To assume that someone else's job and responsibilities are easier and less risky than others' jobs is not the best line of thought. In some jobs, the risks and difficulty are easier to see and understand. In other jobs, not so much. That's all.

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
..Isnít it true for everyone and everywhere? Maybe the guys who are working from home are an exception but they also need services of someone to bring them electricity, internet and all that stuff. So itís not just the money. What will you or anyone else do without these people working in the field? Yes, thereís a risk but from whatever we have seen, itís marginal.
Absolutely spot on. Even at the height of the lockdown, literally crores of people were working to make sure that all of us could type out our arguments on Team BHP from the comfort of our living rooms.

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Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
This is the challenge with lifting lockdowns. In most parts of the world, the workers would be able to sue Bajaj for causing wrongful death here.
Any half decent defense lawyer will ask these questions.

Q.) Can anyone guarantee that the corona patients would never have caught the virus if they had chosen to not come to work?

A.) No. But, they surely would not have caught it at this time.


Q.) Are you sure about that?

A.) Well, no. They could have caught it from their milk vendor for all we know. But, coming to work increases their chances of getting infected, and of infecting others.


Q.) Are any of the corona patients in this case minors?

A.) No, they are all full grown adults who are capable of making decisions for their own lives.


Q.) Did anyone force them to come to work?

A.) No. They came to work because they chose to do so once the plant opened.


Q.) If they are scared of the virus, could they not have chosen to quit their jobs and to stay home?

A.) Yes, they could have.

Case closed hopefully.

I have always admired Bajaj for being trend setters. I am a customer and a loyalist. More so after this.
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Old 29th June 2020, 09:45   #18
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Default Re: Covid infections & deaths at Bajaj Auto's Waluj factory

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Originally Posted by mohansrides View Post
Q.) If they are scared of the virus, could they not have chosen to quit their jobs and to stay home?

A.) Yes, they could have.
True. The employees need their jobs and salaries just as much as Bajaj (or any other manufacturer for that matter) needs their operations to be up and running again!
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Old 29th June 2020, 10:33   #19
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Default Re: Covid infections & deaths at Bajaj Auto's Waluj factory

It might be wrong to blame Mr Bajaj. He is a businessman and needs his plants to function so that he doesnt have to pay the salaries from his pocket

The problem is our healthcare infrastructure is finite. People working in service jobs that are really needed for us to work from home need to be taken care of. They need to keep testing them regularly and make sure their living conditions and resting are taken care of.

I am still optimistic looking at the way we are functioning right now. Its as normal as it could be with some extra precautions in wearing masks, some social distancing etc. We are still dont seem to be in a catastrophic condition. But when you look at our healthcare facilities we are in that condition even with low number of infections compared to population. I am mostly saying from a Bengalurean perspective.
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Old 29th June 2020, 10:48   #20
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Default Re: Covid infections & deaths at Bajaj Auto's Waluj factory



Attachment 2021460


Is that a Cielo at the gates of the factory, did anyone else notice it? When was this pic taken? That looks to be one well maintained vehicle

Now going to go through the old thread as nostalgia and a lot of time in hand has kicked in.
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Old 29th June 2020, 11:22   #21
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Default Re: Covid infections & deaths at Bajaj Auto's Waluj factory

The blame lies with Rahul Bajaj as well apart from multiple other factors. The factory strength was ramped up to 70 percent till last week. In a state like Maharashtra with cases rising like crazy, this was a recipe for disaster with such a factory strength.

My friends working in the plant say while starting the operations adequate safety measures were not followed by the management. Sanitization of vehicles used by people and facilities were not to expectations. Multiple news reports also confirm this.

"The Workers’ Union fear the spread of the contagion because the labour is required to work in the factories at close proximity. “Even while continuously maintaining a distance, we are bound to touch similar surfaces at frequent intervals,” said one of the workers."

https://auto.economictimes.indiatime...-down/76678111

What we are focusing on is the factory workers only. The real impact is in the MIDC colony where workers live with their families. Local dailies suggest cases rising among families here because of the infection from the plant. This is sort of having a cascading effect.

Infected Workers have been asked to take mandatory leaves and those without leaves are asked to go on leave without pay.

There are also third party vendors who work in Bajaj plants who were infected.

The local Waluj Gram panchayat has issued a diktat asking people not to go work in the factory and unions have also called for a shutdown due the rising cases.

Bajaj management is not relenting and Bajaj plant at Aurangabad is said to have undergone sanitization this past weekend and no shut down of plant to be enforced.

This is in stark contrast to the Bosch management which have shut down their plants near Bangalore and R&D in Bangalore after reports of 2 and 5 employees testing positive to the virus from two of their plants respectively.
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Last edited by whencut86 : 29th June 2020 at 11:26. Reason: reframe sentence
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Old 29th June 2020, 11:29   #22
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Default Re: Covid infections & deaths at Bajaj Auto's Waluj factory

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The blame lies with Rahul Bajaj as well apart from multiple other factors. The factory strength was ramped up to 70 percent till last week..
It is Bajaj’s plant which they opened after having been allowed to do so by the government. They can run it any way they see fit.

I don’t know about sanitisation measures as I have no information on them. But such measures notwithstanding, the infection is going to spread. No two ways around it.

Those who are fearful can quit and stay home. No one stopped them from doing that. If they expect to get paid for not coming to work; well, I doubt if that will happen in month 4 of the lockdown.

It is wrong to expect companies to indefinitely pay wages when no work is being done and no revenues are being generated.

Incidentally, since we are talking about wages, the government needs to work on a war-footing to get information from all employers as to which are the jobs that can be done from home. With this information, they need to come up with a differential taxation system (over and above current tax slabs) that generates non-trivial additional tax revenues from the people who work in these WFH jobs. This money should be directly used to pay those who are unable to work and earn without venturing outside during a lockdown. This is really the need of the hour now.

Last edited by mohansrides : 29th June 2020 at 11:59.
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Old 29th June 2020, 12:21   #23
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Default Re: Covid infections & deaths at Bajaj Auto's Waluj factory

Back in the days, when you have some farmland , cows, the ability to grow your own food etc , it was easy to sit at home for a few days and watch the world go by.

Right now, without regular income the chances of poverty taking your family`s life is more dangerous than Covid - It is not something that people who have not faced poverty will ever understand.

When you have the lives of ~ 50,000 employees depending on your factories - You keep it running, no matter what.

When you have the lives of millions depending on your country`s economy.... Phew!
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Old 29th June 2020, 14:34   #24
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Default Re: Covid infections & deaths at Bajaj Auto's Waluj factory

I'm surprised that some people still think that the lockdown was a bad idea and an ill-informed decision. Had that not been the case, the Covid cases would have overwhelmed our weak health infrastructure way back in the month of May

Coming to the topic of the production plants, I am sure plant management would have taken all necessary precautions before ramping up production. However being our country and knowing how rules are flouted proudly, cases are bound to increase.

In fact one can see clearly how masses including the educated, middle, upper middle, lower income etc are openly moving around not following any social distancing measures.

Mr. Bajaj is a well educated and experienced leader but my opinion is that all industry leaders like him should come together and support the governments decision so that others can follow.
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Old 29th June 2020, 18:24   #25
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Default Re: Covid infections & deaths at Bajaj Auto's Waluj factory

The plain and simple fact is that no government or a medical body in the world can say with any reasonable degree of confidence that they have a handle on how the virus behaves and what could be the ideal way of tackling the contagion. Everyone is making up rules on the fly and trialling out treatments. Under the circumstances, it would be always prudent to unlock bit-by-bit.
It is quite possible that governments all over the world will have to dig in deep into their strategic financial reserves to support their societies, may be for the next 2-3 years or at least until vaccines show an effect. Everyone is in a tearing hurry to "normalise", or make a "new normal" , but I think the term induces a certain complacency. It has to be treated as a problem at many levels, until then there won't be an effective solution.
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Old 29th June 2020, 18:37   #26
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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
The protectionist lobby's Blue eyed heir would want his wit and outspokenness be seen more often for his ever growing fame for opposing govt measures. Fact remains that a diehard homeopathy believer and Bombay club's deep hangover doesn't get his basics right. He wouldn't shy away from citing EU references from his KTM better half in Austria for managing the economy or handling COVID from any Indian context.

Shouldn't a leader lead from the front? How about Rajiv help build herd immunity by working on the assembly line in Waluj and put his money where his mouth is? Will he? Or would he simply sit across cameras of a byte hungry media to dole out best practices and world saving measures in the confines of his AC cabin or in the back seat of his Jaguar?
Agreed. It is easier for these elitists to actually go and preach. But they themselves will isolate themselves in the luxuries of their home.

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Originally Posted by mohansrides View Post
Oh, this again?!!

Are we going to slow-roast every entrepreneur who is starting back after this gut-punch of a lockdown? Or is our collective "love" only reserved for Rajiv Bajaj because he had the audacity to speak up against the lockdown?
======
I have always admired Bajaj for being trend setters. I am a customer and a loyalist. More so after this.
This is a very elitist view. Think of someone who is the sole bread earner of his family and he goes to office thinking that his organization has taken care of the basic sanitization. And if that is not there then his trust is betrayed. And God forbid if he dies in the process, then his family is on the road. Have you thought about that? If you are not aware, the entire bajaj group thrived on the waiting period for bajaj scooters not because of any USP of the scooter but protectionism and this protectionism leads to a sense of privilege. As a privileged person you can get the best of the treatment and facilities, but a common man does not have access to such facilities. I had actually made up my mind to go in for KTM Adv. 390, but after reading such insensitive interview, I have decided now not to buy it. I don't want to support any business through my purchase that does not put society first.

Last edited by moralfibre : 30th June 2020 at 06:37. Reason: Back to back posts.
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Old 29th June 2020, 19:24   #27
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Default Re: Covid infections & deaths at Bajaj Auto's Waluj factory

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This is a very elitist view. Think of someone who is the sole bread earner of his family and he goes to office thinking that his organization has taken care of the basic sanitization. And if that is not there then his trust is betrayed..
Three questions.
1.) Can you prove for certain that the person caught his infection from Bajaj plant only?

2.) Can you provide any guarantees that a person would not get infected with Covid just because they work in an environment where sanitisation has been carried out regularly?

3.) Did Bajaj give any guarantees to the employees that they will absolutely not get infected if they were to come to work?
The answer to all the above questions is no. Also, anyone is free to quit their jobs if they wish to not take risks. No compulsion at all.

Calling Rajiv Bajaj an elitist just because he is a CEO is a bit much. Going by the thousands of jobs that Bajaj has created over the years, I dare say that he and his family have done more for society and for the country than any of us ever have. I know generations of families who have fed themselves through employment at the Bajajs, Tatas, Birlas, and Kirloskars of this country.

All of a sudden, we are now to term Rajiv Bajaj as a greedy capitalist when he is simply playing by the rules that were set out for him, is it?

Finally, which bike you buy is your choice. No compulsion there either. I hope that you find the motorcycle that makes you happy. I know that I would choose my Dominar all over again if I had to.

Last edited by moralfibre : 30th June 2020 at 06:40. Reason: Fixing quote
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Old 29th June 2020, 21:14   #28
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Default Re: Covid infections & deaths at Bajaj Auto's Waluj factory

IMO,
If
A. The company is operating as per the guidelines of the government
B. And implementing sanitation and healthcare measures as per the government guidelines

Then, I dont see any reasons to blame the company here. Otherwise we can certainly blame them.

I am no medical expert but being decent at analysing data, i can certainly say the following:

Reference data is from 'Worldometers' so anyone can refer to it.

1. Currently among our country's population, for every 1000 people tested, we are seeing approximately 60-70 infected cases and 2-3 deaths due to Covid and this is going to continue until -
A. Cure is found
B. Herd immunity is developed
C. Virus/disease somehow dies on its own or develops a second wave or mutates into something more/less fatal.

2. We know that this cant be practically avoided by the lockdown. Lockdown is merely serving to flatten the curve so that medical infrastructure isn't overburdened and patients are more likely to get the required medicines, consultation and treatment that they need.

3. Since we are already into community spread phase, we cant say for sure that we are highly likely to catch the infection at the workplace itself. We can catch it anywhere as there are so many other possibilities.

So, proportionately in a 8000 workers setup, we can expect approximately 400-500 Covid-19 infected cases and 10-20 Covid-19 fatalities as per the above mentioned data, irrespective of whether they resume to work or not. But, the even larger evil here is the Poverty. It will kill/make suffer even larger number of this work force and their dependents if economy is not allowed to function as normally as possible. No private company can pay or is expected to pay their work force endlessly without the revenues.

So, this is the current harsh reality which all of us need to accept and choose a lesser evil here. And the numbers imply that Covid-19 is a lesser evil here compared to the Poverty and Unemployment which will create not only the hunger related deaths far exceeding the Covid but also it can potentially disturb the social security by increasing crime rates tremendously. Ofcourse, this policy of resuming to work may be unfavourable for some members in the society who have reserves to survive for a few more months or years without working, but they are also free not to resume to the work as no one is forcing them to do so and they can continue to stay in isolation or take decisions as suits them.

Last edited by 46TheDoctor : 29th June 2020 at 21:17.
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Old 30th June 2020, 00:14   #29
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Default Re: Covid infections & deaths at Bajaj Auto's Waluj factory

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You know this for a fact how? People I know very closely caught the infection despite never having left home in 3 months.
That means either it's a new case of covid-19 having development period of more than 90 days, in which case it should be notified to medical team as a special case, or it was transmitted through some contact which is a normal case (similiar to what must have happened in Bajaj plant).
While Bajaj cannot be exactly blamed for their employees contracting covid-19, it is their duty to provide assurance via proper protocol, which I don't think was what happened - especially when you are talking about 140+ employees getting infected ( + 3 dead employees).

Last edited by moralfibre : 30th June 2020 at 06:38. Reason: Fixing quote tag
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Old 30th June 2020, 00:18   #30
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Default Re: Covid infections & deaths at Bajaj Auto's Waluj factory

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.... especially when you are talking about 140+ employees getting infected ( + 3 dead employees).
Sir,

By any law of averages, a plant of 8000 people is more or less going to have the same proportion of infections as the general population. While I agree that the company should take measures to mitigate; it is next to impossible to stop the spread of Covid. This pathogen stays on surfaces for days and is not easily killed by our harsh heat. Aside from this, this pathogen has N other factors that help it spread. So, no matter how many precautions you take, the infection is absolutely going to spread. There is simply no denying this.

Also, the statements that Bajaj didn't take precautions are all hearsay so far. If the company had made some legal commitments, it should absolutely be held accountable for it. But, in the absence of an actual inquiry and an investigation that proves that the organisation did not live up to any commitments that it had made, it is not correct to say the Bajaj is at fault just because people got infected.

Today, if you step out, you are increasing your chances of getting infected. That's a fact. If you choose to go to work, you should do so with full cognizance of that reality. Going to work because you need the job and then blaming the office for an infection that is already widespread in society is simply not correct. Bajaj can be held accountable for any work place accidents that are unique to their plants and that would not happen to their employees outside the plants. But, to hold them solely responsible for a widespread infection is simply not correct.

Finally, being at home is not a guarantee that you will not get infected. See this - https://twitter.com/PhadkeTai/status...396329984?s=20

Last edited by moralfibre : 30th June 2020 at 06:45. Reason: Quoted post deleted.
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