[nairrk]

There is an electric scooter manufacturer based in Thrissur (Kerala) and the Name of the company is TES (Thrissur Electric Scooter).

Website Link

Have seen a couple of YT videos and reviews and also interview with the MD of the company who claims that, except the body other parts are sourced locally and not Chinese ones.

Unfortunately, I couldn't see any model personally since there is no dealer showroom near my place.

YT video - discussion with the MD Mr. Alex: (click on 'watch on YouTube'' to see the video)

https://youtu.be/pUefkKZO8rI?t=172

Not sure whether to believe him or not?

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by alpha1

If you would've said risky (risk to people's health) then I would've agreed.

There are safety issues as well. For example - a couple of cases of the Pure ePluto catching fire which went viral recently, a model that the company claims to have sold 25000 units in 18 months since launch.



Now how did the company respond - They said they are open to comply with government regulations, if introduced.

"We welcome, if the Government or the concerned regulatory body wants to issue detailed guidelines on the manufacturing, testing and validation methods, transportation, storage and usage of the Lithium batteries to the EV OEMs, and safety manuals and checklists to the dealers and the end consumers, and the frequent service/health check-up/maintenance protocols of the Lithium batteries while they are in use and idle conditions," the startup added in its four-page official note.

Furthermore it said, "this incident motivates the company to improve their safety records and resolve to work extraordinarily hard to make lithium batteries accessible and affordable for the common man and democratize EV technology."

Guess that makes it clear that there is a loophole in the system somewhere and the lack of regulations is causing many startups to import Chinese kits and sell it here without any major risks involved.

While startups coming to the scene may not be a bad thing (case in point - Ather), we need to have regulations in place so companies act responsibly as well. Like GTO mentioned above, we have so many small players in the EV space currently and many are likely to appear and disappear in the next few months / years leaving their owners stranded for lack or support.

Originally Posted by nairrk

Not sure whether to believe him or not?

China is the biggest market for batteries and chips - even the big players like OLA admit to being dependant on imports for such critical components. I wouldn't trust his claims.

However, there are reputed and questionable sources in China as well and most of these small players have to compromise to keep the costs as low as possible.

[srini1785]

Nothing surprising in this trend and its all been there in the past with ICE cars too. In the beginning of the 20th century there were close to 3000 manufacturers in US alone who sold cars. They just mixed and matched parts , built their coaches and sold them to the craving public. Soon there was consolidation as Ford, GM and Chrysler became the most dominant players due to reliability and service. What we are seeing is just that phase with EV's. The consolidation would soon happen.

Public buying these scooters are primarily people who use them for short commutes. When EV's become main stay, people will look for VFM products and only few can offer such products. IMO, this trend will soon fizzle out.

PS: Even though Chinese rebranded products will not last long, Chinese manufacturing is here to stay. All household items sold under brand name are Chinese. So get used to it.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by shortbread

No it doesn't benefit the economy.

Had these been manufactured locally, the investments would start from setting up a plant, local employment, domestic component manufacturers etc etc...

The money invested circulates within the economy and not being sent outside to kit manufacturers in china!

Ah the Swadeshi streak!
Hope you are working for a swadeshi firm, catering exclusively to swadeshi clientele, and buy/use products and services which are made by similar swadeshi firms and organizations.

Considering the quality and features, they are not exactly VFM either, one simply get's what one has paid for. The buyer benefits long term when buying a product from an established manufacturer with service backing, resale etc.

I say (subject to bare minimum Govt stipulated safety regulations that everyone must follow) let people vote for their priorities using their wallet, instead of us imposing our ideals on them and stifling competition.

[spoth001]

There is a study done recently (I guess by Govt agency) which says that 50% of scooters in India would be EV’s by 2030. So it’s obvious that opportunists want to cash in on this unregulated sector. China as a country is flooded with EV’s especially the scooters so they are decades ahead of us in EV scooter technology.

[AZT]

I work for a foreign firm and get paid what I do because the client is charged in USD. I wouldn't have a job if the US public starts boycotting companies which set up off shore locations for simple cost reasons. I'm pro export of our services sector and thus also import of goods from other countries.

Quality concern is one thing but this "what value do they add" is the same as the value any Outsourced employee or off shore centre set up in India adds, It's cost arbitrage and all local taxes are legit paid.

[sri_tesla]

Originally Posted by spoth001

China as a country is flooded with EV’s especially the scooters so they are decades ahead of us in EV scooter technology.

Just because China is flooded with EV scooters does not mean they are decades ahead of India or other countries in EV scooter technology. Most of the electric scooters sold in China are very low-power models and till recently most of these models are powered by Lead-acid batteries. Chinese govt has to force these companies to use Li-Ion batteries. All these imported Chinese models will have very low power motors and lower performance, smaller batteries, and hub motors. None of these scooters are designed with EV in mind. Batteries will occupy under-seat storage.

On the other hand, Indian models like Ather 450X have a much powerful motor, performance, battery placed in floorboard providing better handling, equal weight distribution at the front and rear, more range, etc... Ola S1 Pro has an even more powerful motor, top speed, 4 kWh battery with very good range, smart features, etc... at a good price.

There are a few Chinese startups like Niu, Super Soco, etc... which have a decent lineup of vehicles but our Indian models like Ather 450X, Ola S1 Pro, etc... are better than those in most of the parameters.

[am1m]

I guess it's like cell phones- there's a market for the Apples and Samsungs and there's certainly a market for the other imported models. I've seen a lot of these kinds of EVs in smaller towns, highly unlikely that an Ather or Ola will reach those places in the next few years. And when established Indian 2-wheeler manufacturing giants are themselves passing off Chinese kits as their products, I don't see what individual consumers are expected to do!

(Having said that I certainly wouldn't buy one of these myself, it'll be either an Ola or an Ather, once the charging infra is in place!)

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Ah the Swadeshi streak!
.

No it's called common sense. We do what benefits our own. Do you think chinese will allow Indian two wheeler manufacturers to import and assemble freely in their companies?

So why allow them to dump their excess production on our shores and hurting domestic industry?

Originally Posted by alpha1

I say (subject to bare minimum Govt stipulated safety regulations that everyone must follow) let people vote for their priorities using their wallet, instead of us imposing our ideals on them and stifling competition.

So why have any import restrictions anywhere in the world? Global economics is very different from the idealistic bubble you live in. No one is stifling competition, all that's been asked is the competition to produce it locally.

[spoth001]

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

There are a few Chinese startups like Niu, Super Soco, etc... which have a decent lineup of vehicles but our Indian models like Ather 450X, Ola S1 Pro, etc... are better than those in most of the parameters.

Wait until Bajaj, Hero and Honda come up. That's when you see the actual change. The so called startups that you have stated have little numbers to justify EV technology that too which is not proprietary to them (I highly doubt that) as there is not a single company in India which manufactures Battery cells. There is a component of China involved in almost everything that we use daily so do not assume that there is no dependency on China. How else do you think Tesla is going to launch in India, you think from US ? They are going to make them in Tesla China plant and export them here so that cash rich people can afford the premium of duties. The approach of Indian EV manufactures I am sure is to reduce the dependency but it will be only noticeable until battery cells are made locally. Sadly till then we have to trust on SEA countries for the tech. may be just not China but definitely Taiwan for sure. Read this article, I am sure you will be better updated.

[neil.jericho]

In summary,
- companies are legally importing parts for a product to be assembled in India, thereby generating employment in our country
- dealerships are employing sales folks, thereby generating employment in our country
- dealerships are spending money on marketing and promotional activities, thereby circulating their profits in the economy
- all local and central taxes are being paid, thereby facilitating better roads and infrastructure etc
- dealerships are meeting demand from a particular segment of the market (price conscious and low affordability) and helping them spread their rupee better, as alpha1 has rightly pointed out
- unless proven otherwise, these China origin two wheeled EVs meet all the current regulations.

In the absence of any illegal activities taking place, I really dont see what the issue is here. If the citizens of India do not want affordable EVs to be made available to all and sundry, then they can press their elected representatives to block the imports of CKDs / components from China, that are essential for the manufacture of electric two wheelers in India.

But then,
1. our home grown manufacturers will have to shut shop as they are dependent on parts from China and manufacturing the same in India will not make their products affordable to the middle class and upper middle class.
2. we will have to go back to our petrol scooters and bikes with petrol prices hovering at Rs 100 / litre.

I agree that the longevity of these companies and their dealerships can be debated but that is part of doing any business. Fly by night is a catchy phrase for sure, but along with small EV dealerships selling Chinese two wheelers shutting shop, we should not forget that two of the biggest car companies in the world have also ingloriously left the Indian market. Its just the nature of business.

Those who cant afford Indian made EVs that cost above Rs 1 L but need to cut down on their transport costs, will have no option but to look at these foreign origin EVs.

[sri_tesla]

Originally Posted by spoth001

Wait until Bajaj, Hero and Honda come up. That's when you see the actual change. The so called startups that you have stated have little numbers to justify EV technology that too which is not proprietary to them (I highly doubt that) as there is not a single company in India which manufactures Battery cells.

Why are you diverting from your own point made in your previous post? You said Chinese electric scooters are decades ahead of Indian models which is incorrect. By the way, the sales numbers of any of these Chinese import companies are much lower than the sales of Ather.

Originally Posted by spoth001

There is a component of China involved in almost everything that we use daily so do not assume that there is no dependency on China. How else do you think Tesla is going to launch in India, you think from US ? They are going to make them in Tesla China plant and export them here so that cash rich people can afford the premium of duties.

I never talked about dependency on China. Who cares if Tesla imports from China or US. That's a different topic.

Originally Posted by spoth001

The approach of Indian EV manufactures I am sure is to reduce the dependency but it will be only noticeable until battery cells are made locally. Sadly till then we have to trust on SEA countries for the tech. may be just not China but definitely Taiwan for sure. Read this article, I am sure you will be better updated.

There are 6 major battery manufacturers in the world and 3 of them are Korean (LG Chem, SK Innovation and Samsung), 1 is Japanese (Panasonic) and 2 are Chinese (CATL and BYD). Most of the batteries that you see in these Chinese scooters are from unknown local battery companies in China. Being locally made does not make them superior and decades ahead in technology. Scooter companies are not making their own batteries. They just buy from companies that are of very low quality. Also, Taiwan does not have any EV battery manufacturing companies. They do have an electric scooter company called Gogoro which is again superior to any Chinese scooter.

What is the point of the paper cuts that I need to read to get updated? If you have any information about those so-called decades ahead Chinese scooters, I would gladly read and correct myself. I bet none of the Chinese imports are in any way superior to Indian-made Ather or Olas.

[spoth001]

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

Why are you diverting from your own point made in your previous post? You said Chinese electric scooters are decades ahead of Indian models which is incorrect.

What is the point of the paper cuts that I need to read to get updated? If you have any information about those so-called decades ahead Chinese scooters, I would gladly read and correct myself. I bet none of the Chinese imports are in any way superior to Indian-made Ather or Olas.

There is no diversion in topic IMO, it’s all about perspective and how you look it at. If you choose to cherry pick then there’s no point for actual discussions. My Intention is to contribute and not debate. I’m open for a feedback always.

I would be glad if you back up your claims that Ola and Ather are far better. Did you get to ride any Chinese EV before or do you have a comparison in place ? I hope you are not wearing patriotism on sleeve while making this comment. Don’t get me wrong but I referred to some articles online where I found that Chinese have pretty good EV scooters. I also read that MI would be making EVs in India and they claim that their scooter is going to be mind blowing!! Well I hope they don’t fare better than our homegrown brands. Try referring to this link: https://cleantechnica.com/ or some similar websites for better comparisons market wise.

I stated Tesla as they are slowly going to be pioneers in batteries, hence the reference.

So there is nothing wrong in saying that someone is ahead. What matters is how we beat them in their game. Id love to see Ola and Ather dominate the world EV market just like Bajaj or similar.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by spoth001

There is no diversion in topic IMO, it’s all about perspective and how you look it at. If you choose to cherry pick then there’s no point for actual discussions. My Intention is to contribute and not debate. I’m open for a feedback always.

I would be glad if you back up your claims that Ola and Ather are far better. Did you get to ride any Chinese EV before or do you have a comparison in place ?
.

I did, a hero ev and also another one at a generic electric scooter showroom called ampere I think.

They have 3 advantages, nothing else:
- cheap to buy
- removable, switchable battery
- ready availability

Nothing else.... period. Everything else pales in comparison, terribly underpowered, tacky and poor build, lcd kept flickering on our test scooter, bad ride, weak brakes etc..etc...

[sri_tesla]

Originally Posted by spoth001

There is no diversion in topic IMO, it’s all about perspective and how you look it at. If you choose to cherry pick then there’s no point for actual discussions. My Intention is to contribute and not debate. I’m open for a feedback always.

I would be glad if you back up your claims that Ola and Ather are far better. Did you get to ride any Chinese EV before or do you have a comparison in place ? I hope you are not wearing patriotism on sleeve while making this comment. Don’t get me wrong but I referred to some articles online where I found that Chinese have pretty good EV scooters. I also read that MI would be making EVs in India and they claim that their scooter is going to be mind blowing!! Well I hope they don’t fare better than our homegrown brands. Try referring to this link: https://cleantechnica.com/ or some similar websites for better comparisons market wise.

I am not cherry-picking some random things. You made a tall claim that Chinese scooters are decades ahead in technology compared to Indian models. I am only talking about that. I clearly mentioned in my first reply why Indian scooters are much superior to Chinese scooters. Indian models have better range, power, performance, handling, quality, and smart features over Chinese scooters.

What does it have anything to do with patriotism sleeve? Do you want me to ridicule Indian scooters and praise Chinese ones even though they are inferior in every important metric?

I do read many EV-related websites including Cleantechnica. I am yet to come across EV 2 wheelers from China that are vastly superior to Indian models like Ather 450X, Ola S1 Pro, or International models like Zero motorcycles, Gogoro, etc... Xiaomi or Oppo may develop good scooters in the future but we can only talk about them when they are in the market. I am sure by that time, Ola, Ather, TVS, etc... will bring even better models than the current ones.