[Urban_Nomad]

Is this thread a breakaway from an ongoing discussion on another thread... coz I'm thoroughly confused by the discussion going on here. No Sub 400 cc enthusiast bike list today is complete without mentioning the fiery KTM 390 at the very top. Inazuma? It was a heavy, underpowered and overpriced machine. Glad it flopped... it deserved to.

Or is the conversation here about Suzuki bikes specifically? In that case ya... gixxer 250 is quite awesome and should rank on top of that list. Also, the specific mention of the term ICE baffles me completely. Are we saying that after the current crop of machines available today, we will be fully electric???

Even countries like US aren't anywhere near mainstream as far as electric bikes are concerned. India??? Foggetaboutitt. We barely even have a sliver of a charging infra in place. Unlike some car manufacturers... no motorcycle manufacturer AFAIK is announcing halting ICE development by an xyz date. But if some members here no anything different, they must rush over to RE and tell them to stop developing that 450 for the Himalayan... or Katoom to halt advancements on the 490 platform

Lastly and for some reason... the conversation has veered onto off roading too! I'm not sure how the thread title and the conversation here is in anyway related. But just for perspective... a purpose built bike like the xpule or the Impulse will beat the ever loving crap out of even a custom built, powerful machine Iike the 390. I speak with some authority here, having owned all the 3 aforementioned machines. My duke with an xpulse suspension front n rear, 19 inch front, changed ergos (mid mounted controls, wider and flatter handlebar) will struggle to keep up with my current rally kit wala xpulse or my ex flame (impulse)

AND AND... I can show anyone here trails in GGN that will make u soil yourself. Or make ur heart rate go through the roof and give u arm pump in 2 minutes TOPS on a motocross track... all within a half hour of my home. Pick your poison and come over

And even while on tour, You can also find such pant wetting experiences. Google "Gramphoo losar" and pet me know what you think. This btw was also a stage in the Raid de Himalaya rally and also the recently held "rally of the Himalayas"

In conclusion, I clearly don't have 100 percent perspective here and I feel like this thread is an offshoot of another conversation. Feel free to point me to the same to get better acquainted

Thanks guys. Ride safe!

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

Though I've never been up north, from what I've seen, I'd categorize the usual touring routes up there as pretty breezy as well. I doubt you'd find the sweaty stuff in the middle of a touring route.

As long as you stick to state highways, to an extent yes. After all those are states with people leading normal lives there. And this is India is 2022, and a 3.1 trillion USD economy to boot. Roads are part of the package.

Or maybe it wasn't breezy because you were on a roadbike which is just making things difficult for yourself. Artificial difficulty.

Anyway, seems like the scenario where adventure bikes will trump over roadbikes. And the lighter dualpurpose bikes will trounce over both of those. Don't knock them before you try them.

To reach those places you need to ride 1500 to 2500 kms to get to the last 1000 kms of mountain riding. From Poona. Add another 800 km both ways from Bangalore.

Yes the anemic "purpose built" bikes might have done better in some narrow sections. But that's highly debatable when you add luggage and fuel of a multi day tour to the mix. How much is the tank range of your Impulse?

What's wrong with that? Not everyone can handle a full course meal. Some people just want a McDonalds happy meal till they can build their appetite for the bigger meals.

Nothing wrong with that ... just pointing out that its a much larger world out there. And maybe what works on a Sunday 40 km from home is going to be found out when the world widens from there.

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

But just for perspective... a purpose built bike like the xpule or the Impulse will beat the ever loving crap out of even a custom built, powerful machine Iike the 390.

But the thread and discussion was not specific to either racing, rallying or Sunday trail riding. It was about the merits and demerits of a sub 400 cc bike in the real world, for real world riding, all around. At least that's how I am approaching the discussion.

Originally Posted by ambarkhan

from this to GSX1000rr in Baja 500 https://www.rideapart.com/news/31317...r1000-offroad/ people are having fun on motorcycles.

Apart from very focused bikes like 4 Cylinder CBR250RR and proper dirt bikes , I think we have got at least one bike in each category unto 500cc in Indian Market. Let it be a Track bike , dual sports or fun commuters.

Let's not forget the legendary ultra rider who did what I think was the fastest RTW at the time, circumnavigating the globe on a Yamaha R1. Forgetting his name.

Cheers, Doc

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

I clearly don't have 100 percent perspective here and I feel like this thread is an offshoot of another conversation. Feel free to point me to the same to get better acquainted

That's exactly what this thread is. What started out as a bit of Suzuki fanboyism rolled on into a few different things. It's basically "Random thoughts about motorcycles upto 400cc" now. EV vs ICE figures in there somewhere, but forget about that part.

Anyway, the Inazuma deserved to fail? For the same qualities that have made RE a success? Please. I mean, if so, the entire RE catalog deserves to fail. It's basically a lot of dead weight at a fancy price tag.

Yeah, the inazuma was overpriced for the economy at the time. But so was the Kawasaki Ninja which is still in the market, doing its own thing. Besides, us indians are the type to sooner pick a mule for a cheaper price than a quality bred workhorse. So, let's not go there.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

Please. I mean, if so, the entire RE catalog deserves to fail. It's basically a lot of dead weight at a fancy price tag.

And it would have, if RE was ever about just the bikes.

Cheers, Doc

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Yes the anemic "purpose built" bikes might have done better in some narrow sections. But that's highly debatable when you add luggage and fuel of a multi day tour to the mix. How much is the tank range of your Impulse?

I'm not talking specifically about the impulse or xpulse, but in general about the type of bike. You substitute the adventure 390 for your duke and I wager it'll still be a better travel machine because it's designed to be the better travel machine.

Also, the impulse gives me 50 kmpl on a slow day and 30-35 when I'm wringing the shit out of it. Tank range is the last of my concerns on these frugal machines that can drink piss mixed petrol and chug along. Your duke on the other hand will worry you with that 10 litre tank. And what octane petrol do you need to use on these high compression machines?

Nothing wrong with that ... just pointing out that its a much larger world out there. And maybe what works on a Sunday 40 km from home is going to be found out when the world widens from there.

What works on Sunday should work on Monday to Friday too if you have the will to keep going on.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

I'm not talking specifically about the impulse or xpulse, but in general about the type of bike. You substitute the adventure 390 for your duke and I wager it'll still be a better travel machine because it's designed to be the better travel machine.

Also, the impulse gives me 50 kmpl on a slow day and 30-35 when I'm wringing the shit out of it. Tank range is the last of my concerns on these frugal machines that can drink piss mixed petrol and chug along. Your duke on the other hand will worry you with that 10 litre tank. And what octane petrol do you need to use on these high compression machines?

A slow day for an Impulse must be what? 60 kmph? Because a fast flat out day is 90ish right? Likely less with any luggage.

At 60 kmph I will be in my 3rd gear on the Duke. Either that or I will likely fall off the bike because I've gone to sleep (it happens, incredulous as it sounds, more often than one would think - especially on open highways, on tour, especially on multi day tours when fatigue starts setting in and concentration wavers).

The Impulse is a 11 liter tank. Lets say you are getting a midway 40. That means you're going to have to stop for fuel about a 100 km after I do. My range is around 300 km, and this is all fuel across India, from whatever is available on the highways and in the mountains. The Duke does not complain. And can still do 172+ when wrung out.

At around 100, which is 10 kmph above the point where you bike probably seizes, the Duke even returns 40 kmpl. I'll show you a bhpian here who currently rides a 390 Adventure but used to get that from his 390 new gen Duke before that. So ... 400 km tank range there too.

Cheers, Doc

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Yes the anemic "purpose built" bikes might have done better in some narrow sections. But that's highly debatable when you add luggage and fuel of a multi day tour to the mix

Excellent point! Agree wholeheartedly. I'm heading to Bikaner early Feb to ride in the desert for a couple of days. I cannot think of covering the 800 kms of road section on this bike. That's why I'll be loading it up on my Isuzu and head out. My duke will do the road journey just fine and while I'll be slower in the desert... It'll do just fine

Originally Posted by ebonho

Nothing wrong with that ... just pointing out that its a much larger world out there. And maybe what works on a Sunday 40 km from home is going to be found out when the world widens from there.

Originally Posted by ebonho

But the thread and discussion was not specific to either racing, rallying or Sunday trail riding. It was about the merits and demerits of a sub 400 cc bike in the real world, for real world riding, all around. At least that's how I am approaching the discussion.

Agree again. These kind of bikes at least in India are the most relevant to the "real world" riding and not just a niche

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

Anyway, the Inazuma deserved to fail? For the same qualities that have made RE a success?

What parallels do you draw between the two? I haven't ridden the Inazuma but every review mentioned the Inazuma to be super refined, decent handling, with good build quality and a suspension that had a magic carpet kinda rode. Which of attributes do you feel spell Enfield (of the UCE era)?

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

Yeah, the inazuma was overpriced for the economy at the time. But so was the Kawasaki Ninja which is still in the market, doing its own thing. Besides, us indians are the type to sooner pick a mule for a cheaper price than a quality bred workhorse. So, let's not go there.

Ninja 250 IIRC was launched for 3 lac. A proper multi cylinder sport bike... an internationally loved product sold in India. What was the competition at that time? The duke came in and spoiled the party for EVERYONE! THAT was the new baseline. A proper sporty machine that was sold around the world and was loved by most. Another manufacturer who thought they could price a lower specced machine by maybe providing shinier plastic and "premiumness- ness " deserved a kick in the plums. Happy that Suzuki took the hit and launched a sensibly priced machine with good performance (gixxer)

Originally Posted by ebonho

And it would have, if RE was ever about just the bikes.

Cheers, Doc

[drt_rdr]

@ebonho: Okay, I'll give that one to you. Though 40 kmpl is too good to be true.

But, like I said, this isn't about the impulse\xpulse vs duke specifically. This is about roadbike vs dualpurpose\adv. You pick the Honda CRF300L for the sake of arguement and put that up against a similar roadbike, the CRF will no doubt be the better all-weather, all-condition travel machine.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

Okay, I'll give that one to you. Though 40 kmpl is too good to be true.

But, like I said, this isn't about the impulse\xpulse vs duke specifically. This is about roadbike vs dualpurpose\adv. You pick the Honda CRF300L for the sake of arguement and put that up against a similar roadbike, the CRF will no doubt be the better all-weather, all-condition travel machine.

I think 40 is too good to be true too (my real world average is 27ish ... but that's how I ride, always). But riders are reporting that on their 390s. Many. Not just a few. That's the luxury of a high performance not very large capacity engine when ridden at sensible/narcoleptic speeds. And as I assured you, at least for the first gens, the octane thing is a non issue (though I'm sure they would grumble at piss adulteration).

This discussion is for your and Shancz's last ICE enthusiast bike.

You already have a dual purpose and a road bike in smaller capacities.

The Inazuma is dead. The Honda is not sold here. Of what is sold I can honestly recommend only 3 bikes. Two I can recommend. One I think I will recommend if all goes well and to form maybe 6 months to a year down the line of Indian riders riding it on Indian roads.

The Duke 390 (the Adventure is fat and overpriced)

The Gixxer 250 SF (or the naked)

And the jury is still out there on

The Yezdi Scrambler (Adventure too, even though its fatter, its also faster, so ...)

Cheers, Doc

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

What parallels do you draw between the two? I haven't ridden the Inazuma but every review mentioned the Inazuma to be super refined, decent handling, with good build quality and a suspension that had a magic carpet kinda rode. Which of attributes do you feel spell Enfield (of the UCE era)?

RE: Slow, heavy, and overpriced for what it offers.

Ninja 250 IIRC was launched for 3 lac. A proper multi cylinder sport bike... an internationally loved product sold in India. What was the competition at that time? The duke came in and spoiled the party for EVERYONE! THAT was the new baseline. A proper sporty machine that was sold around the world and was loved by most. Another manufacturer who thought they could price a lower specced machine by maybe providing shinier plastic and "premiumness- ness " deserved a kick in the plums. Happy that Suzuki took the hit and launched a sensibly priced machine with good performance (gixxer)

And the Inazuma was a proper twin-cylinder general-purpose bike, with superb build quality and ease of riding, which, for India, would easily work as a comfortable tourer. But like I said, we like 'em cheap. And we're willing top put up with a lot of crap for that.

Originally Posted by ebonho

This discussion is for your and Shancz's last ICE enthusiast bike.

You already have a dual purpose and a road bike in smaller capacities.

I think we're past that, Doc. I'd narrowed down the choices long before this thread. And now, it's boiled down to the Gixxer... unless another super tasty mystery bike enters the fray soon enough. I'm not touching any of the heavier bikes even though the scrambler looks good.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

I think we're past that, Doc.

I think that's sad. This is one thread that allows me to talk about motorcycles and riding in general. I do tend to ramble on.

Cheers, Doc

[drt_rdr]

Nothing stopping us from talking though. I love a bit of rambling myself.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Is this thread a breakaway from an ongoing discussion on another thread... coz I'm thoroughly confused by the discussion going on here.

Understandable and apologies
This thread was created because me and drt_rdr hijacked another thread while discussing about Inazuma and Suzuki so this was created to separate this from the other thread hence the confusion.

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

That's exactly what this thread is. What started out as a bit of Suzuki fanboyism rolled on into a few different things. It's basically "Random thoughts about motorcycles upto 400cc" now. EV vs ICE figures in there somewhere, but forget about that part.

We should rename it to something else, the title and the posts aren't matching and wouldn't want to lose the informative discussions we have here.

Originally Posted by ebonho

And it would have, if RE was ever about just the bikes.

Bullseye

Originally Posted by ebonho

This discussion is for your and Shancz's last ICE enthusiast bike.

Not mine Doc, my current situation has kept me away from the bike since the pandemic started and no idea about the future so no purchase/upgrade planned.

But I enjoy reading the posts whenever I can, makes me feel connected although I do shut up when things start talking about recent riding experience.

Originally Posted by ebonho

The Duke 390 (the Adventure is fat and overpriced)
The Gixxer 250 SF (or the naked)
And the jury is still out there on
The Yezdi Scrambler (Adventure too, even though its fatter, its also faster, so ...)

The moment I saw the scrambler my first thoughts were, Yezdi has caught the pulse of the market. Nothing like it in that category, versatile, classy and those looks. They have a winner even with the issues pointed out by neil.jericho in the related thread.

Saw an onboard video in Dino's vault channel for the Adventure's accelo and it seemed peppy, way more than the Himalayan.

Originally Posted by ebonho

I think that's sad. This is one thread that allows me to talk about motorcycles and riding in general. I do tend to ramble on.

Please do, its fun and informative.
While I might not be buying anything now but reading and discussing about it keeps me connected and informed from different perspectives too.

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

Nothing stopping us from talking though. I love a bit of rambling myself.

May I suggest renaming it to "Ramblings on enthusiast's motorcycles upto 400cc" or taking it even further ahead with "Ramblings on enthusiast's motorcycles under 5 lakhs" and add an opening post to set the tone of the thread since you are the owner I think

Since we're discussing tank ranges, the RTR 180 returns an average of 45kmpl with a tank of 16 liters giving a range of 700+kms, so spoilt for choice there

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by shancz

We should rename it to something else, the title and the posts aren't matching and wouldn't want to lose the informative discussions we have here.

May I suggest renaming it to "Ramblings on enthusiast's motorcycles upto 400cc" or taking it even further ahead with "Ramblings on enthusiast's motorcycles under 5 lakhs" and add an opening post to set the tone of the thread since you are the owner I think

I agree. I like the first title suggestion. The second one leaves things too open ended and we might up stumbling into talking about used 650s and whatnot.

I don't feel any ownership to the thread though since I never intended to start something like this. I'm just happy to be shooting the shit here. But since the first post happens to be mine, I'll edit it to include a short tone-setter. Edit:Scratch that. Looks like I can't edit the post.

Since we're discussing tank ranges, the RTR 180 returns an average of 45kmpl with a tank of 16 liters giving a range of 700+kms, so spoilt for choice there

Really? Somehow, I thought my Suzuki beat everything this end of the cc spectrum in terms of tank capacity.

The 180 really was the it-bike back then though. Superb bang for buck, out-sported the pulsars, and came closest to the yamaha in terms of riding dynamics.

Just wish TVS would've already got on the 250 game.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

I agree. I like the first title suggestion. The second one leaves things too open ended and we might up stumbling into talking about used 650s and whatnot.

Agree, just realised that if we base it on price then the RE twins come along and any used 650 sports will essentially end the argument of power in their favour and that has been discussed at length across threads and especially in the recommendations.

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

I don't feel any ownership to the thread though since I never intended to start something like this. I'm just happy to be shooting the shit here. But since the first post happens to be mine, I'll edit it to include a short tone-setter. Edit:Scratch that. Looks like I can't edit the post.

I know it was pretty weird, I had requested it and your intentions were very different but since the thread has caught on the renaming should work well.

You'll need to report the post and add the request with the content there.