[PraNeel]

Originally Posted by VijayAnand1

Hey Praneel! What if the entire bike is a weak point. Sarcasm apart I would humbly digress with your statement considering it's harsh. It isn't Praneel, here's why..

If a whole bike is a weak point then it will not sell in good numbers. Your pain is coming from Himalayan initial issues and might be due to service support.
The bike still sells, issues have been sorted.
BTW I don't own Himalayan and I don't like it either.

Unfortunately, it's being starkly silhouetted by the other pseudo ADVs that's marginally cheaper and therein lies the conundrum.

I don't understand which bikes you are referring to as Pseudo ADVs. AFAIK I know Himalayan and Xpulse are proper ADVs, while Vstorm 250 is the pseudo ADV here. It is a tourer wearing ADV clothes.

Being a Himalayan and having had enough saddle time on the xPulse, the term "garbage" might be tall and I might attract some scoff and I don't mind, but having owned, ridden, felt them for what they are, I can humbly say, I am at least aware of the shortcomings of each of these motorcycles, especially when compared on an apples to apples basis be it short term and long term. Add to it my peculiar OCD for attention to detail.

This is the part I referred to as harsh. Barring the initial serious quality lapses on Himalayan and some issues on first gen Xpulse, calling them "Garbage" is harsh IMO. Yes, these are not perfect bikes like RE having part failure issues and Xpulse engine being based on old 150cc platform, but they have their strengths too and that's why they continue to sell in much higher numbers than Vstorm. Reason: Manufacturer is working on the product and improving it constantly.
BTW bigger Xpulse and Himalayan are coming. Hope they are not "Garbage"
And once again I don't intend to say Vstorm 250 is a bad product. IMO it is is a strong candidate for touring in 250cc segment.

[VijayAnand1]

Originally Posted by PraNeel

BTW bigger Xpulse and Himalayan are coming. Hope they are not "Garbage"
And once again I don't intend to say Vstorm 250 is a bad product. IMO it is is a strong candidate for touring in 250cc segment.

I think we shall take a pause here, Praneel purely for the sake of not hijacking the thread of its essence. One thing I would leave you here is, just because a thing sells like hot cakes doesn't mean it's the best and vice versa. Pakoras sell fast because it's cheap and junk and the audience who consume it knows that; kaju katli sells significantly less because it's comparatively expensive, but the relish is of a different flavor. I hope you get the gist of it. Plus, it's not about rectifying issues Praneel, it's something more than that. "Hope" is a term that's way over-rated and under-mined today, but hopefully with exciting launches in the near future there seems to be of solace through performance.

We'll wait and watch!

Cheers!
VJ

[PraNeel]

Originally Posted by VijayAnand1

One thing I would leave you here is, just because a thing sells like hot cakes doesn't mean it's the best and vice versa. Pakoras sell fast because it's cheap and junk and the audience who consume it knows that; kaju katli sells significantly less because it's comparatively expensive, but the relish is of a different flavor. I hope you get the gist of it. Plus, it's not about rectifying issues Praneel, it's something more than that. "Hope" is a term that's way over-rated and under-mined today, but hopefully with exciting launches in the near future there seems to be of solace through performance.

We'll wait and watch!

Cheers!
VJ

Well Vijay, I have never claimed Xpulse or Himalayan are best, but they are not garbage either and that's what I was trying to reason with you. To each his own!!

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by PraNeel

In that while coming down from a mud hill the rear suspension slapped me back and I was literally shocked at the tuning. Please note it was at slow speed
Second one when I took a test ride on an open road and a bit of loose sand patches where road was dug up. During this time, I didn't find the ride quality as stiff, because I was at higher speed and I was saddling.

...however please do understand that this bike is stiffly sprung and even at softest setting of rear suspension you will find it stiffer than other bikes.
However, the behaviour of two Vstorm 250s should be same, on the same rough patch, same speed, same rider.

Originally Posted by ringoism

It's a fair point that if you took other 'Stroms over the same patches you've managed to observe the issue(s), you might find similar. The suspension is not considered this model's strong point.

My TR observations were similar to your experience, PraNeel, and I was prepared to live with them because I was just considering this as a comfortable roadbike, and I've noted the same in my TR impressions in the general vstrom thread. Unfortunately, my bike and the ride quality of the various TR bikes I sampled are not 1:1. My bike is worse. In hindsight, I should've made clips of the same and approached my dealership instead of just making claims and leaving it to the interpretations of the technicians.

Originally Posted by PraNeel

Now coming to your first problem. I see from your videos that you are sitting on bike and you mention that rear suspension is working lesser in comparison to front.
* This is normal as front suspension usually has longer travel than rear and is more supple than rear. Reason being less weight and stress on front.
* Have you done the same test on a higher speed and saddling on the same patch? Do you find improvement in ride quality / behaviour?

You may notice in the slow motion videos that the rear monoshock still has more stroke left but it doesn't go through, as if something is preventing it. It stops midway, the rear end gets upset, and the impact transfers to me.

I vary my stance between - loosely seated upright, slightly leaned forward with my weight partially off the seat or completely off, and stood up - according to the speed, line and surface. When stood up, of course, I would no longer be able to feel the sharp feedback to my bottom, but the throttle hitches, the thudding noise, and the wheel skipping would remain apparent.

PDI issue - You found the issue and you have fixed it to a certain extent. If you are not happy go to a FNG, explain your problem and get it sorted to your satisfaction.

Yes, I'm confident this one can be sorted out with a simple readjustment. The reason I mentioned this point is to note the carelessness and one of the causes of my quickly eroded faith in the dealership and Suzuki.

Unenthusiastic dealer support ... But you will have to be patient on this. Like I said if your are not happy with the dealer, go to another dealer, FNG who are willing to work with you to solve the problem.

Originally Posted by WhiskeyTangoFox

@drt_rdr, have you tried reaching out to other dealers in the area or good workshops? Maybe you will find some sort of heed there

Yes, will do this. The other independant dealership in my town is over 20 km away from me. So, I didn't want to just go on a hope and do more futile back and forth. But now, the video clips should likely help me get some traction on this. Some of the feedback I've received has also given me some more leads to chase. Will go to FNG as a last resort. If the issue turns out to be just bad bearings or axle or something, I don't mind it going out of my own pocket. If the issue turns out to be something more expensive like multiple bad parts or a bad swingarm or something, I'd hate to pay for that. In any case, would need confirmation of the issue.


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Originally Posted by 100Kmphormore

The 390 Adventure is probably an underrated motorcycle with what I felt were rather harsh comments on the suspension stiffness ... The gear shifter though was very near to the engine and kept fouling with my shoes, had to get adjusted to it. The tyres (Metzeler Tourance) are great and provide ample grip.

Did try the 390 multiple times. Too much bike for me. For the kind of roads I tend to ride, I know I'll kill or maim myself sooner than later. I'm good with a mechanically simple 250, which is why I went for the Suzuki after much thought.

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also watching your slo-mo's, it looks as though the swingarm "overshoots" considerably.

Not sure I get what you mean here.

Reducing unsprung weight is generally a good thing to do when suspensions start feeling skittish.

I was planning to get some weight off the bike when I bought it. This would be something for me to consider if I end up keeping the thing.

BTW I too have a slightly modded Impulse,

I've had the pleasure of going through your Impulse thread. Nice, friendly, happy little thing, this bike. Mine is almost stock. I've just changed up the brake MC for a sharper response and rounder tyres for better road handling (which is big compromise on the dirt).

[karanddd]

If you really want people to be able to see the issue, it'll be good to take side-on videos of you riding your bike and three or four other vstroms on the same patch of road at the same speed. You could then use a simple video editor to place the videos side by side. If your bike's rear is behaving oddly compared to the other bikes, it should be plainly visible. Just make sure you use at least two or three other bikes to rule out individual idiosyncrasies. If the other 3 behave one way and yours behaves another way, that'll be your proof. If the difference is truly significant and very visible, you could send that video to higher ups in Suzuki who may actually try to help you. You could ask for help in your local vstrom group i.e. ask them to lend their bikes for a few moments for the purposes of this video, I am sure many would come forward.

[PraNeel]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

Unfortunately, my bike and the ride quality of the various TR bikes I sampled are not 1:1. My bike is worse.
You may notice in the slow motion videos that the rear monoshock still has more stroke left but it doesn't go through, as if something is preventing it. It stops midway, the rear end gets upset, and the impact transfers to me.

So if you are confident that rear suspension behaviour is different in your bike and it is not going full stroke. Then do a side by side comparison while still and in motion.
* When still, press down the bikes from rear by sitting, applying downward force etc. If there is any hesitation in your suspension it will be evident vis a vis other bike.
* Do a back to back TD between two bikes on the same patch with same speed. Tell others like mechanic and your buddies to do the same to validate if they also feel the difference or not

Yes, will do this. The other independant dealership in my town is over 20 km away from me.
Will go to FNG as a last resort.
If the issue turns out to be just bad bearings or axle or something, I don't mind it going out of my own pocket........would need confirmation of the issue.

When this issue is pestering you so much, 20km shouldn't be a deterrent for you, more so when you are unhappy with the current dealer.
IMO the things to be checked are:
* Swingarm bushes
* Bearings present in rear
* Chain and sprocket
* Misalignment / loose bolts & parts / overtightening of any sorts
* Replace parts from TD bike and observe the difference in behaviour

[proton]

Originally Posted by PraNeel

.
If Vstrom is the holy grail of 250ADV segment, then it would have been flying off the shelves and why Suzuki is forced to give discount and freebies on it?

We are all waiting for the Honda CFR300L, but HMSI is wisely hesitating. Yes, our road conditions cry out for off road capable SUVs and adventure bikes, but the sales of the latter will still be low, because the average height of a South Asian is 5ft3in! That was also what accounted for low Impulse sales: excessive seat height.

All manufacturers love the low hanging fruit of the vanilla 150 cc commuter: volume sales, efficient use of the idle capacity of their manufacturing plants, and the possibility of laying down a customer satisfying service and parts infrastructure to back up the product. Niche category vehicles tend to have spotty backup in the areas mentioned.

If V-Strom 250 sales pick up, we may even get third party tuning kits for the suspension, where spring weight and damping action adjustment (no more getting your ass whupped!) is a black art. On Facebook, some international parties are offering upgrades. There, the sentiment is generally gratitude that Suzuki scrapped the original 250, which had the sluggish twin engine shared by the Inazuma, and the extra 100lbs flab.

KTM and Bajaj could push the Duke because the seat height is manageable, and the universal need for speed! Besides, they export the excess capacity. Or did they plan for export, and sell the excess locally? Whichever, it worked out well for them!

[tarmacnaut]

Originally Posted by PraNeel

Hi Vijay
If Vstrom is the holy grail of 250ADV segment, then it would have been flying off the shelves and why Suzuki is forced to give discount and freebies on it?

Just because Suzuki gives discounts it doesn't mean the bike is bad.

First, the 250 adventure segment itself has poor sales. Even KTM doesn't report ADV 250 numbers separately, it is clubbed along with Duke as the ADV250 sales itself is also not good.

Secondly, In my experience, Suzuki always gives some sort of discounts, I bought my previous bike BS4 Gixxer for a discount of 5000 and Paytm cashback of 5000 along with free 1st service and a windcheater worth 1000. This was in 2018 and around 10%, even when Gixxer was doing good numbers, close to 5000 per month.

Same goes for my new VStrom, got 14,000 worth insurance, 7000 exchange bonus, 1000 worth service coupon and 7000 worth jacket. This is also around 10%.

My guess is that, This could be mainly due to their budgeting of not investing in marketing and countering that with discounts, as the budget allocated to motorcycle division has been very less in the last 10 years. Heck, they don't even have a single ad or banner for VStrom in Bangalore AFAIK.

[PraNeel]

Originally Posted by tarmacnaut

Just because Suzuki gives discounts it doesn't mean the bike is bad.

Never said so. It is a good tourer.

First, the 250 adventure segment itself has poor sales. Even KTM doesn't report ADV 250 numbers separately, it is clubbed along with Duke as the ADV250 sales itself is also not good.

Because there are lot of options in the 150 - 200 cc range. And after that 400cc makes sense as an upgrade in terms of power and performance.

Secondly, In my experience, Suzuki always gives some sort of discounts

I was present at the launch event of Vstorm 250 and no offers were given. These discounts have been introduced to clear inventory, just like Honda.
Suzuki apart from their regular popular products suffer from pricing, availability and service debacles.
I want to buy Vstorm 650, but it is not available in every state of India. Even if I buy it from another state it is priced at 8.88 lacs ex showroom and there is no service support in my state.
Same case with Honda Big wing and Top Line Bikes.

Nevertheless, if Suzuki had made this a proper off roader and priced it better they would have seen better numbers.
Let's rest this here and get back to main topic. Thanks.

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by PraNeel

* When still, press down the bikes from rear by sitting, applying downward force etc. If there is any hesitation in your suspension it will be evident vis a vis other bike.
* Do a back to back TD between two bikes on the same patch with same speed. Tell others like mechanic and your buddies to do the same to validate if they also feel the difference or not

I've had both of these done during my visits to the dealership. As I mentioned in the original post, the technicians insisted they couldn't tell the difference even though I could. This apparent inconsistency has been the bane of troubleshooting this bike. I unfortunately didn't make video captures of these, but will do so if needed on my next visit to another SvC.

When this issue is pestering you so much, 20km shouldn't be a deterrent for you, more so when you are unhappy with the current dealer

My attention is divided between a lot of things these days, and I bought a new bike and went to some lengths to ensure I could get a bike I could ride without being hassled, and what I've ended up experiencing buying a new bike is the exact opposite. This is why I called up Suzuki to get their help, but to no avail. Anyway, no choice but to try out other SvCs.

[ITZ_Zeta]

I would suggest taking the bike to a trusted FNG. Suzuki ASC is a miss most of the time and their hands are filled with the scooters, unfortunately. I have a Suzuki SF250 and found the suspension to be on the slightly firmer side but not backbreaking and it's bound to be plusher with the vstrom 250. It will be better to get the bike checked with FNG for bends in the swingarm and chassis. Since you have tried a new mono-shock, the next thing I would look into will be the swingarm and wheel bearings. A few years back with my Yamaha FZ, I did encounter a similar hard mono-shock issue and it turned out to be swingarm bushing going bad. Also, try removing the saree guard and the mudguard near the mono-shock to get a better view of the Monoshock mounting points and check if there is any misalignment at those points.

[tarmacnaut]

Originally Posted by PraNeel

I don't understand which bikes you are referring to as Pseudo ADVs. AFAIK I know Himalayan and Xpulse are proper ADVs, while Vstorm 250 is the pseudo ADV here. It is a tourer wearing ADV clothes.

Contrary to popular belief here in our market, ADVs are supposed to be tourer first, then comes the off roading part.

The Prime examples are VStrom 650, Versys 650 which are all 'proper' ADVs but touring is their USP though they are setup for decent offroading with high ground clearance and soft suspension.
This is what the VStrom SX 250 is, a 'proper' ADV and not a Pseudo ADV. BTW VStrom SX has higher GC than these 650s and comes with Dual Purpose tyres from Factory, so technically it is more offroad capable than VStrom 650/Versys 650 and its direct competitor overseas Versys 250/300 which also has lesser GC and similar suspension.

Going by this XPulse is a 'trail bike' at best as it is not built to 'tour', so it is not an ADV.

Himalayan with its terrible cruising speed and vibrations, is neither a good tourer and with its weight, 'Power to Weight' ratio and frame breaking issues, is not a proper rugged off roader as well. So, it might not be a Psuedo ADV, but a bad example of an ADV. Sorry, to move away from this thread's discussion. Couldn't resist to clarify the details as an owner. Thanks.

[SaintAdventure]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

Hi, all. I bought a new Suzuki V-Strom SX 250 a bit over 5 months ago.

I'm experiencing a few mechanical issues, major and minor with my motorcycle since the day I bought it. The purchase and service experience related to this bike has mostly ranged from neutral to distressing...

Your entire experience is straight out of my worst nightmare. I just bought my first bike, the KTM 390 Adventure, and until the day it was delivered, I kept wondering if something will go horribly wrong and leave me in a lurch. The experience with Suzuki in India is innfamous! My cousin has a Gixxer, and while he hasn't had problems, I've not heard good things about the Suzuki service.

I hope that either they find a way to replace your bike completely, which IMO they should, or you find a way ahead for yourself.

Originally Posted by tarmacnaut

Contrary to popular belief here in our market, ADVs are supposed to be tourer first, then comes the off roading part.

The Prime examples are VStrom 650, Versys 650 which are all 'proper' ADVs but touring is their USP though they are setup for decent offroading with high ground clearance and soft suspension...

There are distinctions to be made here. The Versys 650 is more a pseudo ADV than the other bikes you have mentioned. It has almost no offroad capability, unlike the Versys X300, which is a true ADV. The VStrom 650 XT also has actual offroad capability, and is quite competent.

And while you are lambasting the Himalyan, I feel the need to differ. the Himalyan surely lacks power, but ever since 2018, every year it has come out with improvements. in 2023, the engine is refined enough, the problems with the chassis weakness are long gone after Harris Performance has been done with it. It has less vibrations than almost all other ADVs in the 250 CC segment at 85-90km/h, which has been confirmed quite often. Yes, it is still heavy, and the cruising speed is 85-90KM/h at best, but that is enough. As an offroader as well, it has all the tools, and only it's weight is an impediment. It can still do almost all kinds of offroading.

The Vstrom 250 SX is an ADV, but it has negligible offroad capability, which even it's own trailer acknowledges. It can get through bad patches, which is what it's meant to do. But it's not all that.

[tarmacnaut]

Originally Posted by SaintAdventure

unlike the Versys X300, which is a true ADV. The VStrom 650 XT also has actual offroad capability, and is quite competent.

The Vstrom 250 SX is an ADV, but it has negligible offroad capability, which even it's own trailer acknowledges. It can get through bad patches, which is what it's meant to do. But it's not all that.

Lets go by your assessment, that Versys X300 is a 'true' ADV. If so, VStrom SX is 'better' true ADV as it has much more offroad capability. Below are the comparison of off road oriented specs,

Versys X300 -
GC - 180mm
Weight - 180kg
FS Travel - 130mm
RS Travel - 147mm
Road Tyres
Spoked 19 in front wheel

VStrom SX 250-
GC - 205mm
Weight - 167kg
Front Susp Travel - 120mm
Rear Susp Travel - 143mm
Dual Purpose Tyres
Cast 19 in front wheel

VStrom SX has 25mm more GC, 13 kgs less weight with almost same suspension travel. Versys X300 only has spoke wheel mostly for looks. So, VStrom SX is more off road capable than 'true' ADV Versys X300.

Originally Posted by SaintAdventure

And while you are lambasting the Himalyan, I feel the need to differ. the Himalyan surely lacks power, but ever since 2018, every year it has come out with improvements. in 2023, the engine is refined enough, the problems with the chassis weakness are long gone after Harris Performance has been done with it. It has less vibrations than almost all other ADVs in the 250 CC segment at 85-90km/h, which has been confirmed quite often. Yes, it is still heavy, and the cruising speed is 85-90KM/h at best, but that is enough. As an offroader as well, it has all the tools, and only it's weight is an impediment. It can still do almost all kinds of offroading.

For something costing 3 Lakh on road in Bangalore, poor cruising speed and just 'enough' specs are not at all acceptable and no it does not have lesser vibrations than 250 ADVs.
Below is an account of an owner of himalayan , He says how unrefined the bike is and no it is not fit for all kinds of 'off roading', he says one of the Himalayans got stuck in the 'salt flats'. It is a 'Bad' ADV for the price, no two ways about it.

Reddit post: Came back from 3.5k km Gujarat-Rajasthan trip . I will never taking my himalyan to planes again . It was not a good experience.
Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/indianbikes...asthan_trip_i/

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by SaintAdventure

unlike the Versys X300, which is a true ADV. .

Originally Posted by tarmacnaut

Lets go by your assessment, that Versys X300 is a 'true' ADV. If so, VStrom SX is 'better' true ADV as it has much more offroad capability. Below are the comparison of off road oriented specs,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYYf7iG1ih4

First comment on the video by Et on a dit Banco
2 years ago (edited):

It's 2021, it's now been a year and a half since my wife and I did a world tour on 2 Versys-x300.
38 000 Kms of sand, mud, rocks and boring asphalt and both bikes are still good as new. 64 500 & 72 000 Km on the clock respectively. We love this bike. Simple, light, goes anywhere, always starts and really, I mean REALLY reliable. The engine accept to be drown in water & mud, get its oil changed and start the first time.

We actually got the chance to meet the guy that developped this bike in Japan. Mr Wada : you did a wonderful job !

Oh, and did I say this video was one of the reason we chose this bike ?

At a similar price point, or lets say the Versys was even 50k more than the baby strom, my money is on the Versys every single time. The Versys X300 is a ground up fully designed motorcycle developed as an ADV from the drawing board. The Strom 250 is just something that's had an engine shoe horned into it. Ditto with the 390 Adventure.