[asininite]

Originally Posted by BullettuPaandi

If we're talking engine construction, Honda's CRF 250L looks an awful lot similar- took me just vague searches with Hero's parts to stumble upon this bike.

CRF 250L uses the same engine from the CBR250R which entered production in 2011, whereas Hero Honda split in December 2010. Given Hondas reluctance to share technology with Hero, I find that there is no chance Hero ever got the schematics to Hondas 250cc LC engine.

The similarity is probably down to how both are single-cylinder DOHC liquid cooled motorcycle engines. Unless there is some groundbreaking revelation in engineering, almost all single-cylinder engines will look the same.

I don't think the engineering effort in jerry-rigging an old engine platform with liquid cooling, EFI, DOHC is even remotely worth it compared to a new engine platform that has the potential to be scaled up in the future (as seen with the Xtreme 250R).

Plus the Xpulse 421cc spy shots has already been leaked nearly a year ago. There was not even a whisper of a thought of a 421cc single in Hondas mind 14 years ago, certainly not in India and thus Hero has no chance of getting the plans to that. If Hero can develop a 421cc LC engine in-house, they can develop a 210cc LC engine in-house.

[Rudraksh]

Took the test ride of Xpulse 210 and Xtreme 250R. Here's my findings,

The Xpulse's power delivery was linear, but after crossing lower RPMs, it gets a power boost as a performance bike. Thanks to XMR DNA.
-The comfort was spot on as 200 4V. Great suspension.
-Seat looked similar to 200 4V but a little longer.
-The luggage rack looks cheaper compared to the 200 4V, which looks good.
-The TFT was simple yet readable easily in bright sunlight, straight up head.

Except Healdight, Tyres, and brakes, nothing is similar to 200 4V.
So basically, we can consider this as a brand new product.

About Xtreme, I'm impressed with its stance and crazy power delivery.

Note: There was a 210 base variant that had an ABS ring at the rear. Not sure whether it gets dual-channel ABS or single.

[BullettuPaandi]

Originally Posted by asininite

If Hero can develop a 421cc LC engine in-house, they can develop a 210cc LC engine in-house.

To clarify, I wasn't discussing Hero's ability to develop something from the scratch- I'll state for the record that I don't know anything about that. I was under the impression that the question from Ganesan was a question of reliability, although I now realise how it got towards origin.

At any rate, I do hold an opinion that is somewhat similar, which I've expressed in a different thread. Quoting, now that it pertains here as well:

Originally Posted by BullettuPaandi

[...] They (Hero) have historically been more resourceful with the opportunities they get, than with R&D expenses and QC management [...]

I do believe it is still the case. Indian Motorcycle manufacturers, notably Hero and TVS, are having a bit of a small-scale 'Harrier moment' I'd say, with interesting partnerships with European manufacturers (Hero-Speedbrain, TVS-Sherco). I think it has potential to pan out better in the long run than the contemporary successful ones of the rather polygamous Bajaj. Hero and TVS seem to have learnt something from Honda and BMW; Bajaj I believe will soon follow suit.

It is undeniable that there's been significant improvements in the respective brands' MotorSports divisions, which has trickled down to consumer goods, while also having Indian brands displayed on a Global stage. I believe this is what we've been seeing from both these manufacturers lately. When it is a matter of pride and prowess it can be argued otherwise, but for all practical purposes, and for better or worse, the improved bikes are Indian.

I did look at a couple of other bikes in the segment from Yamaha for good measure. While they were in fact different, they were also old- because, well, Yamaha. So, the similarity due to lack of innovation probably has some merit to it. But, I felt the similarity between Honda and Hero in individual parts and even their numbers to be weird. They looked identical in the diagrams and had similar numbers- only varying in 3 to 6 digits and in recognisable patterns. I don't know about the terms of the split and don't really care either. I'm just stating what I saw. The similarities between Hero and Honda alone are oddly specific.

In Engineering, especially with the Japanese, hardly anything is ever new; it is more often than not continual upgrades over what existed before. Honda has been in the game for decades; I don't think one random morning they whimsically went out to plonk EFI, DOHC and liquid cooling onto their old bikes all at once. The 250R, as far as I'm aware, is a stroked out 210, which has its roots in the CRFs as discussed earlier.

[bpapache]

Originally Posted by BullettuPaandi

I do believe it is still the case. Indian Motorcycle manufacturers, notably Hero and TVS, are having a bit of a small-scale 'Harrier moment' I'd say, with interesting partnerships with European manufacturers (Hero-Speedbrain, TVS-Sherco). I think it has potential to pan out better in the long run than the contemporary successful ones of the rather polygamous Bajaj. Hero and TVS seem to have learnt something from Honda and BMW; Bajaj I believe will soon follow suit.

Sir, with all due respect, I kindly ask of you to elaborate on the harrier moments of TVS with their partnership with Sherco.

I may have misunderstood you or looking at the topic from a wrong context, so please correct me if I’m wrong, but with that said, I think, to give credit where it’s due to TVS, they’ve been quite active in the motocross, rally and supercross sports events since decades. I think TVS has spent and continues to spend actively in its R&D and its trickling down into their products. I just am not sure why they haven’t launched a dual sport motorcycle yet, with all the in-house experience they would have gathered in these many years. Regarding partnership with Sherco, I’m not sure to what extent they’ll get R&D benefits from it, but definitely TVS wouldn’t be nothing without this partnership in my humble opinion.

[BullettuPaandi]

Originally Posted by bpapache

TVS wouldn’t be nothing without this partnership

Tata wouldn't have been nothing without JLR acquisitions as well; but it certainly brought vast improvements to their products- mostly in design, but also in image and perception as well. I think it is a similar case here as well and that is basically all I meant.

I don't bother about who gets what percentage of credit, as it makes no difference to me.

[sleepyhead148]

To folks on this thread who've booked the top-spec bike, what are the delivery timelines given to you by your dealer? I'm hearing nothing earlier than mid-June from my person. Also, I've seen dispatches of base variants so I've no clue what Hero is doing with the deliveries.

[aston_martyr]

Originally Posted by sleepyhead148

To folks on this thread who've booked the top-spec bike, what are the delivery timelines given to you by your dealer? I'm hearing nothing earlier than mid-June from my person. Also, I've seen dispatches of base variants so I've no clue what Hero is doing with the deliveries.

45-60 days. V3S Premia showroom. Did not book actually after hearing those timelines.

[lancersfx]

Originally Posted by aston_martyr

45-60 days. V3S Premia showroom. Did not book actually after hearing those timelines.

For the hero showrooms that have a branch with premia (for example RT Krishna has normal showroom near PES college and Premia at singasandra), they were taking pre-bookings even before the online bookings had started. So looks like they are fulfilling the pre-bookings at local showrooms first, then comes the offline bookings then finally online. Another update I've heard is those trying to upgrade their current xpulse 4v and want to do it via the Hero showroom from where they purchased the 4v, have to go with premia. So Unless that branch has both, there's a break :-(. So the other showrooms are working with Hero management to procure bikes to their normal branches too so that their existing customers have an easy option to upgrade rather than having to deal with two different branches.

[sleepyhead148]

Either ways, it does look like a critical count of 210s will be available from late-May to early-June and nothing before.

But I find the story of Premia quite confounding - and this is based on my observation across three cities. Mysore has only one Premia showroom and folks from neighbouring districts of Hassan, Mandya and Coorg are making their bookings there. Chennai has a dealership (Mohana in Velachery) which just saw their first floor (or second) refurbished into a Premia section. Adyar Hero will undergo Premia modification in their Adyar branch from this week. Their other branches will remain normal Hero showrooms. Bangalore seems to be the one most sorted till now. It'll be interesting how Hero positions Premia in the future once the sales start in full swing.

[bnkmp]

Hero has still not improved its showroom experience with Premia.

I had a bad encounter with them recently when I went to test drive the Pulse 210 and the Xtreme 250. It started off well with them agreeing quickly for a test ride for both the bikes. I gave my license and to my surprise they did not saddle me with a pillion rider (end of the experience made me wish a pillion would have been better). I started with the Xpulse and went about a short 2km test drive. I liked the quality, handling and the suspension of the bike but did not find it powerful than my Access 125.

Next I started with the Xtreme 250 in the same path as the Xpulse, liked its ergonomics and power delivery but after around 1km the bike ran out of petrol. Now most test drives I had, the fuel indicator usually shows empty (including the Xpulse) but this was totally unexpected. Here I was stuck under the peak afternoon bangalore sun around 3PM with no direct contact at the showroom. I had to call the showroom number from google and explain my situation but could not communicate my location to them (there was no landmark, I was in some random lane of BTM). I had to push the bike till some main road and then call them again. Someone from showroom came to me after 30 mins, no apology, just started pushing the bike with his foot using his bike.

After reaching the showroom, no one had any courtesy to apologize, just asked me to pick up the license from the countertop !!!
Even though I liked the bikes, how can I even think of a purchase after this horrendous experience ??

Showroom was V3S - Premia, BTM.

[EasyRider Suraj]

Originally Posted by BullettuPaandi

I don't think there's a Hero engine that is not of Honda lineage. This one is apparently from Honda's CRF230.

Source: Wiki

The 210/250 & 440cc long stroke are brand new engine with nothing to do with Honda. These were built from ground up.