Shogun and other old bike's spark plugs...

Raccoon · 1st May 2009, 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinar

The spark plugs were not from Mico, they were [bosch] imports and I do not remember the model number.It's been really long time now. I sold my bike in 2001.

Ohhh ok. But aren't these BOSCH plugs marketed here by MICO? Do you get Made in Germany plugs too?? The W5BC I bought for my Shogun in Made in India... and carries both MICO and BOSCH names on the box.

If they are imported by MICO, I wonder why I was told by MICO that they they only have the single electrode W5BC for the gun... no fancy options.

On the other hand the NGKs I'v seen are all Made in Japan.

dinar · 1st May 2009, 16:59

The plugs were 4 point, imports were not by me but a shop near my collage, I had picked a box of them 4 in box. Do not remember the the model. They were Bosch German made. No idea about the mico imports thou.The once I picked were not marketed as shogun specific for that matter any Indian vehicle specific. It was a case of me wanting a new spark plug and going to a shop to by one, the owner shows me a plug "these are new from Bosch just got a freash batch" Will it fit my bike? "we'll try". and than after a week of riding the bike I pciked the whole box for 4 plugs.
MICO plugs are not bad. I think MICO had launched two point plug in between , have no idea if they are still made.

Raccoon · 1st May 2009, 17:26

^^^Oh?! You never bothered with the heat ranges, reach, etc??

Anyway, that explains why there are no other options in the market. They do have multi electrode options for other bikes though... thats what I was told. Don't know if they are Made in India or imports.

dinar · 1st May 2009, 21:28

The heat range was close to the spec sheet[actually a lil colder]...the reach was as the factory once and there were some longer but those did not work well the bike heated soon.. but my bike needed a lil more with the mods it was running....I believe they were manufactured for some car and not bikes.
Just remembered the Mico plug were made for Kinetic Honda not for shogun[they were longer].No company in India bothered about a low volume bike.
If your getting the NGK in your spec range buy those. Anyways your bike does not have mods to the engine.

Raccoon · 2nd May 2009, 01:54

Ok, I think its time for me to summarise my recent experience -

Have used the following plugs -

NGK BP8HS - Recommended by TVS. Available as TVS Genuine Spare with TVS dealers. Non-resistor type plug. Made in Japan.

NGK BPR7HGP (G Power, Platinum) - Recommended by NGK for Shogun, Samurai, Rx100, etc. Resistor type plug Made in Japan.

MICO BOSCH W5BC - The only other plug recommended by TVS for the Shogun. Non-resistor type plug. Made in India.

Have always used the HP8HS till now. Recently bought the NGK BPR7HGP. The bike seemed to get smoother with this plug. However I suspected loss of pick up/power. Firing also seemed a bit subdued. Engine seemed to vibrate a bit less. Cannot comment on any change in fuel efficiency as did not use it long enough. No change in RPM observed (compared to the old BP8HS)... though even the NGK auth. dealer said RPM will increase a bit. When the spark plug was removed, it did not seem to be in the best state... seemed oily and bit blackish! This in spite of being a hotter plug. Have never seen this before in my bike - the BP8HS plugs always seemed dry and brownish!

Replaced the above plug with a new W5BC. First thing I noticed was drop in idling RPM (about 200 - 300). Now I'm not sure if this is good or bad... I don't see how this can be good! Any comments anybody? The next thing noticible was the firing changed slightly. The bike seems to roar louder and seems more peppy! Pick up seems to improve! Bike feels rougher though... but whats the use of smoothness if its going to rob the power? Cannot comment on plug condition and change in fuel effeciency... will be checking that soon.

Now in spite of NGK recommending resistor plugs, it seems they are not suitable at least for the Shogun. Yes they do "work", as some of you have stated, but the question here is not to find what works! The idea is to find what works MOST OPTIMALLY!! Its very likely users of other bikes like Samurai, Rx, etc., where the recommended plugs are non-resistor type, may also see a similar difference. Its very likely that the older ignition systems are not designed to fire resistor type plugs. These resistor type plugs are supposed to add a 5 k ohm resistance to the circuit... which seems to reduce the spark voltage and hence intensity across the electrodes.

I just have one doubt though - the resistor plug I tried is a platinum plug. So cant be sure if the difference observed is because its a resistor plug or because its a platinum plug being compared with nickel plugs.

Resistor plugs usually have an "R" in the part number. So anybody using NGK's BPR7HS, BPR7HGP, etc., please consider comparing with non resistor plugs like NGK BP8HS or BOSCH W5BC and feel the difference.

straight6 · 2nd May 2009, 05:21

All I can say about the W5BC is that my bike starts with just one kick (and I mean one kick only) even if I haven't ridden it for 2 days. That never happened with the NGK BPR7HGP. Of course, the engine is now in its best state of tune than it has ever been before.

I'd like to see if it will still start like that after more than 2 days. Will keep you posted. The other thing is, when I start the bike cold, it idles fast for around 2 minutes and then slows down. It reminds me of Honda's PGM-FI for the CBR's!

Raccoon · 2nd May 2009, 15:09

Intresting... your bike seems to be behaving as if it has a ECU... provided you aren't using the choke.

Suggest you compare the MICO W5BC with the NGK BP8HS. You will likely see a further improvement...

Which plug does Yamaha recommend btw?

straight6 · 2nd May 2009, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raccoon

Intresting... your bike seems to be behaving as if it has a ECU... provided you aren't using the choke.

Suggest you compare the MICO W5BC with the NGK BP8HS. You will likely see a further improvement...

Which plug does Yamaha recommend btw?

My mech had suggested that one to me as well. I'll try it sometime later.

No idea what Yamaha suggests.

praJEEP · 2nd May 2009, 18:50

Straight6 untill and unless you are using chambers there is no need for any other plug than W5BC for an rx, take my word for it.

Raccoon · 2nd May 2009, 23:20

^^^I saw a clear change in idle RPM between the old nickel BP8HS and the W5BC. As I said earlier, not sure why that is so or what changes I will observe with that... but there does seem to be a difference between them!!

Also some people say NGKs last longer. Can't make a personal comment about that as I haven't had the opportunity to compare their durablity.

1st May 2009, 16:59	#17
dinar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: goa Posts: 1,066 Thanked: 57 Times	The plugs were 4 point, imports were not by me but a shop near my collage, I had picked a box of them 4 in box. Do not remember the the model. They were Bosch German made. No idea about the mico imports thou.The once I picked were not marketed as shogun specific for that matter any Indian vehicle specific. It was a case of me wanting a new spark plug and going to a shop to by one, the owner shows me a plug "these are new from Bosch just got a freash batch" Will it fit my bike? "we'll try". and than after a week of riding the bike I pciked the whole box for 4 plugs. MICO plugs are not bad. I think MICO had launched two point plug in between , have no idea if they are still made.
	() Thanks

1st May 2009, 17:26	#18
Raccoon Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Poona Posts: 1,851 Thanked: 116 Times	^^^Oh?! You never bothered with the heat ranges, reach, etc?? Anyway, that explains why there are no other options in the market. They do have multi electrode options for other bikes though... thats what I was told. Don't know if they are Made in India or imports.
	() Thanks

1st May 2009, 21:28	#19
dinar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: goa Posts: 1,066 Thanked: 57 Times	The heat range was close to the spec sheet[actually a lil colder]...the reach was as the factory once and there were some longer but those did not work well the bike heated soon.. but my bike needed a lil more with the mods it was running....I believe they were manufactured for some car and not bikes. Just remembered the Mico plug were made for Kinetic Honda not for shogun[they were longer].No company in India bothered about a low volume bike. If your getting the NGK in your spec range buy those. Anyways your bike does not have mods to the engine.
	() Thanks

2nd May 2009, 01:54	#20
Raccoon Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Poona Posts: 1,851 Thanked: 116 Times	Ok, I think its time for me to summarise my recent experience - Have used the following plugs - NGK BP8HS - Recommended by TVS. Available as TVS Genuine Spare with TVS dealers. Non-resistor type plug. Made in Japan. NGK BPR7HGP (G Power, Platinum) - Recommended by NGK for Shogun, Samurai, Rx100, etc. Resistor type plug Made in Japan. MICO BOSCH W5BC - The only other plug recommended by TVS for the Shogun. Non-resistor type plug. Made in India. Have always used the HP8HS till now. Recently bought the NGK BPR7HGP. The bike seemed to get smoother with this plug. However I suspected loss of pick up/power. Firing also seemed a bit subdued. Engine seemed to vibrate a bit less. Cannot comment on any change in fuel efficiency as did not use it long enough. No change in RPM observed (compared to the old BP8HS)... though even the NGK auth. dealer said RPM will increase a bit. When the spark plug was removed, it did not seem to be in the best state... seemed oily and bit blackish! This in spite of being a hotter plug. Have never seen this before in my bike - the BP8HS plugs always seemed dry and brownish! Replaced the above plug with a new W5BC. First thing I noticed was drop in idling RPM (about 200 - 300). Now I'm not sure if this is good or bad... I don't see how this can be good! Any comments anybody? The next thing noticible was the firing changed slightly. The bike seems to roar louder and seems more peppy! Pick up seems to improve! Bike feels rougher though... but whats the use of smoothness if its going to rob the power? Cannot comment on plug condition and change in fuel effeciency... will be checking that soon. Now in spite of NGK recommending resistor plugs, it seems they are not suitable at least for the Shogun. Yes they do "work", as some of you have stated, but the question here is not to find what works! The idea is to find what works MOST OPTIMALLY!! Its very likely users of other bikes like Samurai, Rx, etc., where the recommended plugs are non-resistor type, may also see a similar difference. Its very likely that the older ignition systems are not designed to fire resistor type plugs. These resistor type plugs are supposed to add a 5 k ohm resistance to the circuit... which seems to reduce the spark voltage and hence intensity across the electrodes. I just have one doubt though - the resistor plug I tried is a platinum plug. So cant be sure if the difference observed is because its a resistor plug or because its a platinum plug being compared with nickel plugs. Resistor plugs usually have an "R" in the part number. So anybody using NGK's BPR7HS, BPR7HGP, etc., please consider comparing with non resistor plugs like NGK BP8HS or BOSCH W5BC and feel the difference. Last edited by Raccoon : 2nd May 2009 at 01:58.
	() Thanks

2nd May 2009, 05:21	#21
straight6 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bombay Posts: 2,548 Thanked: 296 Times	All I can say about the W5BC is that my bike starts with just one kick (and I mean one kick only) even if I haven't ridden it for 2 days. That never happened with the NGK BPR7HGP. Of course, the engine is now in its best state of tune than it has ever been before. I'd like to see if it will still start like that after more than 2 days. Will keep you posted. The other thing is, when I start the bike cold, it idles fast for around 2 minutes and then slows down. It reminds me of Honda's PGM-FI for the CBR's! Last edited by straight6 : 2nd May 2009 at 05:28.
	() Thanks

2nd May 2009, 15:09	#22
Raccoon Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Poona Posts: 1,851 Thanked: 116 Times	Intresting... your bike seems to be behaving as if it has a ECU... provided you aren't using the choke. Suggest you compare the MICO W5BC with the NGK BP8HS. You will likely see a further improvement... Which plug does Yamaha recommend btw?
	() Thanks

2nd May 2009, 18:50	#24
praJEEP BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 537 Thanked: 8 Times	Straight6 untill and unless you are using chambers there is no need for any other plug than W5BC for an rx, take my word for it.
	() Thanks

2nd May 2009, 23:20	#25
Raccoon Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Poona Posts: 1,851 Thanked: 116 Times	^^^I saw a clear change in idle RPM between the old nickel BP8HS and the W5BC. As I said earlier, not sure why that is so or what changes I will observe with that... but there does seem to be a difference between them!! Also some people say NGKs last longer. Can't make a personal comment about that as I haven't had the opportunity to compare their durablity.
	() Thanks