[bornin70s]

A big shout out to all RE lovers in T'bhp. I have a unique question to ask of you all. Although i don't own a bullet, i intend to own one very soon. I have average knowledge about these bikes and would love to know more. My first query from a long list of queries hovering around in my skull is this.

The Electras as you know, are sold in India, USA, UK and Australia, the last three getting the 500CC EFI version of it. Moreover, the electras in other countries have had modifications done to it and sold as the Clubman, the trials and the Woodsman.

Now, general specifications aside, how do the basic Electras (the 350s and the 500 EFIs) differ from each other?

It would be great if anyone could point out any major cosmetic differences between the two?

First: The new Electra UCE


Next: The Electra X


AFAIK: These are the main changes i could find:

1) Chrome front fenders.
2) The rear fender on the Indian version is a little high, therefore making the tail-light assembly look raised.
3) A higher seating level for the pillion. (Because of the rear fender positioning? )
4) Fork gaitors.

Thats mostly it, from my side.
Are there any hidden changes which we can't see in the pictures? Replies highly appreciated.

[KA18]

As far as I can see:

The black colored 'Thingamajig' behind the air filter box in Electra X
The difference in Crank case and clutch cover because of the UCE engine compared to the CI/AVL engine
Rear Mudguard stays not present in the Electra X
Engine Head angles (Straight in UCE & slanted in X)
Heat guard on the silencer in the UCE.

These are evident from the pictures.

But the export market model will definitely be better in quality, fit and finish.

[aargee]

Cosmetic differences between the two - Kicker lever, the side panels of Electra X reminds the look of TBTS, the exhaust pipe is slightly roundish with Electra X compared to the UCE.

[bornin70s]

Thanks KA18, Aargee.

The frame seems to be the same for both though.
@ Aargee, Isn't the kicker level same in both? The difference being the shape of the kicker? I think the heat guard was removed to accommodate the back slanted kicker in Electra X. Just a thought.

The black colored 'Thingamajig' behind the air filter box in Electra X.
Aargee is totally correct. The right portion is taken from the TBTS. I'm curious to know what it actually is now. Is it the tool box? Can it be fitted directly onto the Electra?

Rear Mudguard stays not present in the Electra X
Will it still take the weight of the pillion on long distances?
This could be because mostly "single riders" exist in other countries.

[aargee]

You're right on the heat shield, I did notice but didn't mention it here. @Bornin70s - But what is the purpose of your comparison on the cosmetic changes? Are you planning to buy a used Electra UCE & apply the cosmetic changes of Electra X into it?

[bornin70s]

My tentative idea is this. Bring in a second hand Electra, make the cosmetic changes i like (Leaning towards to X now). This is actually based on my thinking that an Electra would be the best model to make the mods i am thinking of.
I fell for the Oberdan Bezzi RE Scrambler design. Here it is.



A few other changes i had in mind were these:
Headlight assembly. (The likes of RD350 or the Triumph scrambler)
Change fuel tank. (something similar to the Triumph Scrambler again)
Get a gel seat installed.
Smaller rims on the back and retain the original rims upfront. (I though this would create a problem with regards to top speed or acceleration. Any suggestions)

Mostly these changes could be done. But here's the major problem.
"The Exhaust". Never have i seen such a high level exhaust on sale like the one on this. The original ones are fitted onto the Electra Woodsman.



Even if i find a fabricator who can make one, it would take an expert to actually fabricate the battery cover.

Then comes the clamps which holds the exhaust in position at the back. (which is visible). I think there needs to be another one behind the battery cover to hold it in place. Otherwise it would just wobble. Moreover the exhausts were made to fit the 500CC EFI models. Would it be compatible with the 350s?

I felt i need to know everything there is to know about modding before i go out and get a bike and get started with it.

[jkdas]

Two different engines, UCE and AVL one.

Production of AVL might ( or did it?) get stopped sooner or later.

bornin; sweet. All the best with the project. Cant you try getting the silencer too?

[bornin70s]

Originally Posted by jkdas

Two different engines, UCE and AVL one.

Production of AVL might ( or did it?) get stopped sooner or later.

bornin; sweet. All the best with the project. Cant you try getting the silencer too?

I think the AVLs have been stopped.

Thanks a lot JK. I'm still visualizing the final outcome in my head.
As far as the exhaust goes, i have browsed through tons of RE accessories sites to no avail. The closest exhaust i can find is the off-road trials exhaust which sweeps up onto the regular right side of the bike. If anyone has any idea of getting a genuine woodsman exhaust, i would be truly truly grateful.

[aargee]

@Bornin70s - Triumph is one of my fav motorcycle & I'm more inclined towards Bonneville than Scrambler. On your question on smaller rear rims, yes your speed is likely to go down, but try changing the sprocketing in addition. Like the scrambler, is it not possible to take the exhaust outside the side shields & you may require only a heat shields to protect.

[bornin70s]

My first love is still the Scrambler but i guess I will have to wait and pray for Mahindra & Mahindra to tie up with Triumph rather than Moto Guzzi. Hopefully then the modern classics could see their way into India.

Mahindra Two Wheelers scouting for International partner for it’s high end motorcycle foray | Indian Cars & Motorcycles Blog

Heat shields are easily available on UK and USA websites which i can get someone to bring them down for me. If chances are hopeless about the exhaust then I'l settle for the woodsman look rather than a scrambler.

[justROYal]

On keeping the 4 bikes next to each other, I could spot about 10 things that you might need to keep in mind (purely cosmetically speaking.)

You might also appreciate that the power houses in both the Electra X (AVL) and the Electra UCE are different and therefore fll up the engine compartment to different degrees. How much of the engine compartment looks filled up is a major factor in deciding the looks of any two-wheeler.

I have tried labelling the 10 differences on the pics and would love to see more brain storming on this one:

1. The Electra UCE comes with the Air-filter in the side box and the Air routed through the chromed box opposite to the battery casing, whereas the Electra X has the Matt black Tool-pod from the Thunderbird and also TBird's contoured side panels covering the Air filter. This means your bike looks leaner around the mid-section in the Electra-X.

2. The stays for the rear mudguard are not there on the Electra-X. While this is facilitated by the fact that most riders ride solo abroad, the stays dont really have a lot of load-bearing application. They are there mainly to take care of the large potholes that might make the tyre touch the mudguard. In any case, If you go in for the Woodsman look, You would have to remove that portion of the mudguard.

3. The kick lever does look different. While there is a straight level with a swivel kick-rubber portion on the Electra-X, the Electra UCE has an S-shaped kick lever. This is an integral part of all the UCE bikes. Even the TBTS has the same kick lever.

4. In the Bezzi design concept, the tyres are smaller (IMO 18-inchers).

5. The disc brake kit is not the standard Pirelli set we have on all Enfield bikes. It is a bigger disc and this coupled with the smaller tyre gives you that stocky look in the front. This is further aided by the mudguard being chopped short and a cross-stay fitted onto it.

6. I am not too sure of this, and this would be a major structural change if it is in fact there... The pin that holds the swingarm to the frame is higher placed on the Bezzi design. This may look that way given that the tyre is smaller, but somehow I get the feeling that the hinge has been raised by a few inches.

7. On the Woodsman as well as the Bezzi concept, the front footpeg is pushed back into a rearset. This makes sure you have a sportier stance. V12 and Gordon had made an Enfield Cafe Racer and the rearsets had caused them quite some pain. You might want to talk to them if you want this on your bike.

8. Rear Disc. Lends your bike a lot of character in the rear if you ask me.

9. The tail of the bike has been chopped and the seat is also made to suit this look. The bracket holding the exhaist in place is not too difficult to fabricate I guess.

10. While the Woodsman has a chromed tool-pod, the Bezzi concept has removed this. IMO, this looks good with the stocky rear tyre.

Apart from these you have front fork gaitors, the pads on the tank for your knees, and the round headlamp with different instrument cluster on the Bezzi.

There is a shop on Dinnur Main Road in RT Nagar, Bangalore that fabricates customized silencers, They might be in a position to make you the exhaust, and you can then fit heat shields on it. But routing it under the battery cover will put a hot pipe close to a battery which IMO, isn't a very bright idea.

Would love to see the Bezzi concept being built...so keep us posted mate!

[bornin70s]

Oh yeah, you'l definitely get a candy for this one Mr Royal. Il try and let you know what sort of issues / views i have on the listed points.

1. My thinking about the tool pod and the air filter panel is that they can be directly taken from the TBTS and fitted straight onto the Electra without major hassles. I would love to get a good air filter which would add an extra dimension of grunt to the bike albeit keeping the thump intact.

2. The stays are history. I will just have to watch out for potholes.

3. Can the kick lever be changed to something of my taste, something more sporty?

4. The back rims surely look like 18s which, along with a neat rear disk brake setup add character no doubt.

5 & 8. I was actually wondering if both tyres need the disk brakes or not. I'm not going to splurge on any high end disk setups. Will it be difficult to fit a rear disk on an old Electra?

6. The swing-arm on the Bezzi design looks different and probably all doubts will be cleared once the rear 18' rims are put in. After a long hard look at both the woodsman and the Bezzi, i feel it is still an inch or so higher. I guess it'l be foolish of me to change anything on the frame, right?

7. Even i felt there's a need to change the footrests. I guess V12 and Gordon's major problem was that the pillion rider's foot used to touch the riders foot and was rather uncomfortable. The leaning forward position of the rider on a cafe racer is the main reason to change the footrests.

My question is whether the scramblers also need to push back the footrests so far back as the cafe racers, or is it enough to push it back just a few inches?

9. What did you mean by "The tail of the bike has been chopped" I kind of lost you there. Sorry.
And will the exhaust hold in place with only one bracket?

10. Decided that the tool box could be placed under the seat if possible. Will do some research on that.

In the Bezzi design, do you think the exhaust is very close to the battery? By the looks of it, when it enters the compartment, it is lower and when it exits it sweeps up. So wouldn't that be OK?

Thanks for the fabrication details. Il check it out soon. Highly appreciate your views.

[Gordon]

Enfield Cafe Racer and the rearsets had caused them quite some pain

Actually the rearsets relieved the pain. The position without rearsets is a big pain. The only problem was in bad stop-go traffic, there is pressure on the palms.

Even i felt there's a need to change the footrests. I guess V12 and Gordon's major problem was that the pillion rider's foot used to touch the riders foot and was rather uncomfortable. The leaning forward position of the rider on a cafe racer is the main reason to change the footrests.

I found that comment from V12 very weird. It wasn't a major problem at all. We've made three Enfield cafe racers, and I've seen a couple of others too. But there is none that is as practical as the Chrome Cafe Racer. Its just a problem when you wear bulky shoes, thats all. Its the ONLY Enfield cafe racer I know of that can seat two comfortably.

The Scramblers had rearsets for ground clearance off road.

[bornin70s]

Originally Posted by Gordon

The Scramblers had rearsets for ground clearance off road.

And probably to stand upright as well. I just noticed the footrest positioning from some videos. They actually are positioned quite back. I'm sort of confused on how to get the gear lever and the back brake lever right.

Here are some very good threads and a video if anyone is interested.

My Enfield Woodsman has arrived...woohoo! - ADVrider
Just finished modding my Enfield Woodsman - ADVrider
A few photos from a camping weekend with my Royal Enfield - ADVrider

YouTube - Fuel-injected Enfield Woodman - 'Witchcraft I say'

[justROYal]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Actually the rearsets relieved the pain. The position without rearsets is a big pain. The only problem was in bad stop-go traffic, there is pressure on the palms.

I was talking about the sourcing of the rearsets...I am sure you would not have kept them if they weren't making for a pleasant ride.

Originally Posted by Gordon

The Scramblers had rearsets for ground clearance off road.

I doubt if this project will see some heavy-duty rock-riding. So rearsets here would be more cosmetic than for the GC.

Originally Posted by bornin70s

Oh yeah, you'l definitely get a candy for this one Mr Royal. Il try and let you know what sort of issues / views i have on the listed points.

1. My thinking about the tool pod and the air filter panel is that they can be directly taken from the TBTS and fitted straight onto the Electra without major hassles. I would love to get a good air filter which would add an extra dimension of grunt to the bike albeit keeping the thump intact.

2. The stays are history. I will just have to watch out for potholes.

3. Can the kick lever be changed to something of my taste, something more sporty?

4. The back rims surely look like 18s which, along with a neat rear disk brake setup add character no doubt.

5 & 8. I was actually wondering if both tyres need the disk brakes or not. I'm not going to splurge on any high end disk setups. Will it be difficult to fit a rear disk on an old Electra?

6. The swing-arm on the Bezzi design looks different and probably all doubts will be cleared once the rear 18' rims are put in. After a long hard look at both the woodsman and the Bezzi, i feel it is still an inch or so higher. I guess it'l be foolish of me to change anything on the frame, right?

7. Even i felt there's a need to change the footrests. I guess V12 and Gordon's major problem was that the pillion rider's foot used to touch the riders foot and was rather uncomfortable. The leaning forward position of the rider on a cafe racer is the main reason to change the footrests.

My question is whether the scramblers also need to push back the footrests so far back as the cafe racers, or is it enough to push it back just a few inches?

9. What did you mean by "The tail of the bike has been chopped" I kind of lost you there. Sorry.
And will the exhaust hold in place with only one bracket?

10. Decided that the tool box could be placed under the seat if possible. Will do some research on that.

In the Bezzi design, do you think the exhaust is very close to the battery? By the looks of it, when it enters the compartment, it is lower and when it exits it sweeps up. So wouldn't that be OK?

Thanks for the fabrication details. Il check it out soon. Highly appreciate your views.

Shall PM you the address to send the candy

For the air-filter + tool-pod from the TB, I think you can just fit them on without much change. I had seen a lot of bikes at the Rider Manias over the years who do that kind of modding. For the Air filter, I guess K&N is the best thing available. There used to be a green cotton thing popular some years ago, but I don't remember any high praise for those.

There is an aftermarket rear-disc setup for bullets. I am sure people on JC road would know where to look. However, personally for me, one more addition to your bike is one more thing that can go wrong.

Do not tamper with the frame. A lot of load bearing is taken into consideration in designing every angle, every section. You never know when your change of angle increases the Bending Moment at a junction and your frame starts twisting. So leaving the frame alone would be a good idea.

Chopping the tail referred to the end portion of the rear mudguard having been chopped off so that the mudguard ends right at the tail lamp level and doesnt continue cuving down further.

I have had the good fortune of clocking a few non-stop miles on my Bullet, and I know it for a fact that Bullet exhausts get seriously hot. On the ride from Hyderabad to Ooty for the Rider Mania, my friend's saddlebag caught fire from the Exhaust heat. So this might make you rethink the whole exhaust "close to" the battery concept. How close is far enough? At what speed? for how long?

My suggestion there would be to move the battery to the right as you have no use for the air filter casing there if you fit a K&N.

As for mounting the exhaust, I am guessing it happens at 3 points: Exhaust valve joint, Rear end mount on the mudguard and the part that is under the cover defenitely has a frame mount.