[Tommie]

I am little suprised by the Honda innovation. Is it declining over the years. I happen to see an old bike for sale in this forum
http://classifieds.team-bhp.com/buy-...B-250-NA.html/

The 1981 Honda CB 250 twin cylinder was making 28 bhp with 6 speed transmission with disc brakes and alloy wheels. What are we getting extra in 2011 CBR 250R. Just an ABS for additional 30 K and 3 bhp less.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by rajeshsundaram

Attachment 526159has a 12V 60/55w headlamp! wow! I really like this thing now.

What is surprising is that a 6 Ah battery powers it!

Add twin horns, and i think the battery will show its weakness during night rides!

Originally Posted by mykal shoemaker

Yes.They told us they have 80+ bookings now.

Which could easily translate to 2-3+ waiting period.

[gthang]

Originally Posted by Tommie

I am little suprised by the Honda innovation. Is it declining over the years. I happen to see an old bike for sale in this forum
http://classifieds.team-bhp.com/buy-...B-250-NA.html/

The 1981 Honda CB 250 twin cylinder was making 28 bhp with 6 speed transmission with disc brakes and alloy wheels. What are we getting extra in 2011 CBR 250R. Just an ABS for additional 30 K and 3 bhp less.

I guess Electronic Fuel Injection, liquid cooling, BSIV (at least) emission control, Combined-ABS (not just ABS, not that ABS is that common anyways), Pro-Link suspension, etc, etc are just not that innovative enough.

Why, these are things that even Bajaj, or even Mahindra can easily cough up, right?

Well, they did drop 3 bhp, I guess Honda sure is on a downward spiral to doom.

The fact that the whole world is raving about this bike and its technological achievements, and that 27 patents have been filed for it's engine design alone doesnt really mean anything to the discerning Indian customer who are used to the best of everything.

Quite surprising indeed.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Come on guys! Which bike stands close to the CBR 250R in the Indian market? I fully agree Ninja stands head and shoulder with it, and may be a bit above but the taxes put it in a whole different price level!

Power figures alone dont tell the story either! Its obvious that CBR 250R is not an full-on sports bike, and is more of a mile muncher. It makes more useable power at lower rpms and i think that would make it ideal for Indian conditions!

Not to mention C-ABS. I am 100% in support of having ABS systems in Indian bikes. (Full credits to TVS too!).

Anyone has any links that explains the working of C-ABS system?

EDIT:- http://www.motorcycle.com/manufactur...iew-87864.html

[Paulstar]

Originally Posted by Tommie

I am little suprised by the Honda innovation. Is it declining over the years. I happen to see an old bike for sale in this forum
http://classifieds.team-bhp.com/buy-...B-250-NA.html/

The 1981 Honda CB 250 twin cylinder was making 28 bhp with 6 speed transmission with disc brakes and alloy wheels. What are we getting extra in 2011 CBR 250R. Just an ABS for additional 30 K and 3 bhp less.

If anything its the Ninja 250r that deserves your criticism, it is basically the same bike (plus new styling) as a 250 ZXR from the early 90's that I did some time on a few years back.

I did some time on the CBR250R some time back too, I feel that this new honda is a good enough improvement on the old bike in terms of keeping up with new technology, the price seems great as well. 2 lachs is about 4500$ AUD which is about what the old CBR250R goes for here I plan to spend some time in India this year and next if i go for a bike I'll go for this one

[Tommie]

Originally Posted by Paulstar

If anything its the Ninja 250r that deserves your criticism, it is basically the same bike (plus new styling) as a 250 ZXR from the early 90's that I did some time on a few years back.

I did some time on the CBR250R some time back too, I feel that this new honda is a good enough improvement on the old bike in terms of keeping up with new technology, the price seems great as well.

Gimme a break, its just the old wine in a new bottle after 30 years. I did a bit more research on the 250 CC bikes.

Here is the single cylinder model called Honda CB 250 RS -1981 model (a.k.a Racing Single)
1981 Honda CB 250 RS specifications and pictures
Single Cylinder, 26HP @ 8500 RPM, top speed of 146 kmph with front disc brake.

The twin cylinder bike is Honda CB 250 N -1981 model (A.k.a SuperDream)
1981 Honda CB 250 N specifications and pictures
Twin cylinder, 27HP @10000 RPM, top speed of 142 kmph with front disc


Is CBR250R the best that Honda can produce after 30 years it has produced CB250RS and CB250N.

Additional reference:
Honda CB250

[navpreet318]

Interesting find man!

And look at the bikes they are air cooled.the CBR250 is watercooled yet it makes same amount of power.Seems honda has gone back in tech.this is really funny.

[khaleelda1]

interesting...

1) if it is detuned for indian market.....cant it be retuned (upwards) with ease?

2) wont this model have a slipper clutch? :(

[Paulstar]

Originally Posted by Tommie

Gimme a break, its just the old wine in a new bottle after 30 years. I did a bit more research on the 250 CC bikes.

Here is the single cylinder model called Honda CB 250 RS -1981 model (a.k.a Racing Single)
1981 Honda CB 250 RS specifications and pictures
Single Cylinder, 26HP @ 8500 RPM, top speed of 146 kmph with front disc brake.

The twin cylinder bike is Honda CB 250 N -1981 model (A.k.a SuperDream)
1981 Honda CB 250 N specifications and pictures
Twin cylinder, 27HP @10000 RPM, top speed of 142 kmph with front disc


Is CBR250R the best that Honda can produce after 30 years it has produced CB250RS and CB250N.

Additional reference:
Honda CB250

Touche` sir the improvements in the segment in terms of power and performance really are minimal after all this time.

Old wine, new bottle - yes but in the case of these bikes it really is the bottle that sells them IMHO the addition of EFI (having owned carby 250 and efi 636) on these bikes and ABS (having had some dicey situations on the 250, in the rain, with those skinny tyres) is what makes them worth owning rather than the new tupperware they've come wrapped in (in my opinion).

[zaks]

If you take the advancements that has gone in to most of the automobile industry in the recent years, it's more on the refinement, cooling, efficiency, reliability, superior materials and emissions and not to mention economy of production.

There is not much to do in power/torque since it is based on simple chemistry- spray the fuel+oxy and ignite it- Bang!

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by Tommie

I am little suprised by the Honda innovation. Is it declining over the years.

What is innovation for you? more cylinders? and more disk brakes?

Originally Posted by Tommie

Gimme a break, its just the old wine in a new bottle after 30 years. I did a bit more research on the 250 CC bikes.

Its like saying after 100 years cars still have only 4 wheels.

Originally Posted by Tommie

Is CBR250R the best that Honda can produce after 30 years it has produced CB250RS and CB250N

No it isint and your research should have shown that. They also have a 250 cc Vtwin called VTR 250.

Whats offered for India is based on what the public can afford.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by Tommie

I am little suprised by the Honda innovation. Is it declining over the years.

Hi,
Initially I thought this post was just flame bait. But seeing you had also booked the bike, I think you actually want us to chip in saying what a wonderful bike it is. Or you are having an acute case of buyers -er- bookers remorse.

Regards
Sutripta

[Tommie]

Originally Posted by Mpower

What is innovation for you? more cylinders? and more disk brakes?

More power, more torque and more top speed with higher fuel efficancy. Take the case of Honda Cars. Here is a small preview of Honda Civic from the 1980's(second generation) which used to run on 1.5L engines which had power of 60PS and torque of 93.00 Nm (9,45 kgf-m or 68,26 ft.lbs) at 3500 Rev. The engine type was 8 Valve CVCC SOHC Carb
0-60mph was done in 14.2 sec, 33.3 mpg fuel average, with 39.3 mpg being highest. Valves per cylinder was 3.
Popular Mechanics - Google Books

Some additional history on Honda Civic
1973 - 2006 Honda Civic History - Top Speed

Now a Honda City i-VTec can deliver 116PS and a better fuel average. See how the 80's Civic and today's City are leagues apart with City's i-VTec touching a 100kmph in just over 10s.

Originally Posted by Mpower

Whats offered for India is based on what the public can afford.

I would seriously debate on this topic. Honda CBR250R is not just an Indian customized model, but it is a global launch product from Honda and being sold in almost all the countries. See for yourself Honda Worldwide | CBR250R

Originally Posted by Mpower

Its like saying after 100 years cars still have only 4 wheels.

In simple terms, I am looking for a bike that has been built over the years with innovation and can stand a league apart for the next 30 years just like an Yamaha RD350 which can deliver raw power and performance. Why is Honda not able to do that Bajaj, Tata and Mahindra are doing. Bajaj was able scale from Chetak to Pulsar or Tata from Indica in 1998 to Aria in 2011. Mahindra from MM540-Armada-Bolero-Scorpio- CRDE and many other things.

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Hi,
Initially I thought this post was just flame bait. But seeing you had also booked the bike, I think you actually want us to chip in saying what a wonderful bike it is. Or you are having an acute case of buyers -er- bookers remorse.

Regards
Sutripta

I would like to know whether my decision of buying this bike is right because I do not plan to sell it. I am looking for the RD350 equivalent of 2011 that can live the next 30 years.

One might say that if I am looking for a powerful bike, then go and buy CBR 1000 or a R1. Well, I am comparing to the prices too as an RD was just 20K odd in 1983/84(which generated 34BHP) when Maruti 800 was sold at 48K which generated 39.5BHP. I remember my dad bought our 1983- Fiat 1100 Padmini BE for 80K+ (generated some 48BHP or so) then(additional charges for air lifting) and a new Ambassador was over 1 lakh. Remember that an equivalent car in the current household can be compared as a 10 lakh sedan whereas a Chetak equivalent is an Alto/i10 (unless there is some serious debate).

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Please use the "edit" button if posting within 20 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

Also use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Tommie

I would like to know whether my decision of buying this bike is right because I do not plan to sell it. I am looking for the RD350 equivalent of 2011 that can live the next 30 years.

I am yet to see or feel the bike in person, but based on what i have seen and heard over the internet, its a NO!

This bike cannot be an RD350 equivalent and is not something which delivers sheer thrills. Its not an absolute sports bike either, and is more of a sports-touring machine. However, that doesnt mean its slow either and youtube videos show real world top-speeds around 165kmph! Relaxed, refined and mature performance is what this bike has been famous for, in other markets as well.

I suggest you wait for Bajaj to bring the Ninja through CKD route. From your posts, it looks to be more suited to you...

[Mpower]

The answer to your question is that throughout the 80s and 90s 'small' sport bikes were all predominantly 2 strokes. Honda NSR50, Yamaha TZR/YZR250, Suzuki RGV250. By the end of the 2 stroke era they were making close to 60 bhp. 4stroke 250 development was totally ignored. When the whole segment crashed due to emission regs, there was no interest or incentive to pursue small 4 strokes. They focused instead on 600cc inline4s which became the new entry level sport bike for developed markets. Only now that we are seeing products like R15 and CBR250 tailor made for developing countries.

BTW, the bikes that you posted are not going to have the refinement, FE, engine life, dirvability or smoothness that you find in today CBR250.

Originally Posted by Tommie

More power, more torque and more top speed with higher fuel efficancy. Take the case of Honda Cars. Here is a small preview of Honda Civic from the 1980's(second generation) which used to run on 1.5L engines which had power of 60PS and torque of 93.00 Nm (9,45 kgf-m or 68,26 ft.lbs) at 3500 Rev. The engine type was 8 Valve CVCC

Now a Honda City i-VTec can deliver 116PS and a better fuel average. See how the 80's Civic and today's City are leagues apart with City's i-VTec touching a 100kmph in just over 10s.

Not a fair comparison at all. A better comparison would be the NHC 1.5 liter SOHC 8V and it only makes ~68 bhp.

Originally Posted by Tommie

In simple terms, I am looking for a bike that has been built over the years with innovation and can stand a league apart for the next 30 years just like an Yamaha RD350 which can deliver raw power and performance. Why is Honda not able to do that

They dont want to do that because its not proven that there is a market for it. They can easily do that. Liter bikes are making 180 odd bhp so getting 45 out of a 250 twin is definitely doable