[coolvenk]

Nice review. I must say, though, that I was a bit disappointed to see no mention of safety concerns with the Kwid. The reader may recall NCAP tests a while ago, which the Kwid scraped through only on the third attempt and that too after some jugaad welding on the side of impact.

Since Team-BHP is widely consulted by buyers in making their decision, I think it is our moral responsibility to lay out these concerns in as honest a manner as we can, both to alert potential buyers as well as to influence manufacturers to do more to address these concerns.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by coolvenk

Nice review. I must say, though, that I was a bit disappointed to see no mention of safety concerns with the Kwid. The reader may recall NCAP tests a while ago, which the Kwid scraped through only on the third attempt and that too after some jugaad welding on the side of impact.

Since Team-BHP is widely consulted by buyers in making their decision, I think it is our moral responsibility to lay out these concerns in as honest a manner as we can, both to alert potential buyers as well as to influence manufacturers to do more to address these concerns.

The Renault Kwid's latest version scores 1 star which is the segment topper! While, I would have wanted it to be somewhere around 3 stars, it still is the safest car in the segment now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWitZ5P875Y

PS: With regards to your point regarding a mandatory mention of the safety ratings, I too agree with it. Maybe, mods can take a call on that especially since, global NCAP is taking a lot of effort to crash test Indian made cars these days. So, the data is available atleast.

[govindremesh]

Originally Posted by GTO

I think the case here is with the RTO not being updated of the new variant. Whenever a new variant with mechanical changes is launched, it takes time for RTOs nationwide to get updated. Until they do, they refuse to register the car, hence the dealer is trying to pass the work onto the customer.

True. But then, can any dealer in the country start delivering the car to the customer if the Transport Commissioner in the state has not approved it?

In Kerala, the notice is sent simultaneously to all RTOs in the state. Attaching a link to the vehicle approval document for Kwid 1.0 MT in Kerala

http://keralamvd.gov.in/images/mvd/v...60-tc-2016.pdf

[VKumar]

Originally Posted by amalji

Why is the size of the brake pedal important ? One advantage, I see with the smaller pedal is that the chances of a driver slamming the brakes instead of that "virtual clutch in his mind" will be very less. And that's a real scenario. And I couldn't find any advantage with having a bigger brake pedal, having driven the Celerio AMT for long. Correct me, if I'm missing something here.

I too belong to the same school of thought. What you have mentioned regarding 'virtual clutch' is something that I initially used to do. It's nothing but you simply end up hitting the floorboard a bit hard with your left foot. At times there is a chance that the shoe may brush with the wide brake pedal or may even depress it from a side. I can bet that if this happens while you are driving enthusiastically. Then you will end up throwing yourself on the steering wheel; if you aren't buckled up.
for a car that size.

[*]Consider the Ooty - Mudumalai route where you are coming down a dangerous slope for around 25 kms. Without a manual mode, you will end up burning the brakes by the time you reach down.

AMTs normally don't upshift or downshift until you press the throttle hard and tend to maintain the speed as per the accelerator input. I have driven a Celerio all the way from Dhanaulti to Dehradun via Mussoorie, it's quite manageable; only the driver needs to know how to use the AMT. IMO AMT boxes are more about the art of your right foot, if your foot is trained then you can well manage even downhill too in D mode itself.

[*]Or consider a very steep climb, if the AMT wrongly shifts to 2nd gear based on the speed, you are stuck with that. The situation gets even more panicy if the traction is not good as well.

With what I have experienced with the Celerio, if the pedal is pressed to say 50% and the car is going uphill, then it won't shift to second cog until around 20 kph. After that speed, the 1.0 easily manages doing 25-30 kph on moderately steep slopes in second cog too even with 4 people on board. Maruti has tuned the box quite well and it is happy to downshift to a lower cog if it experience lack of torque in a higher gear and pedal is pressed hard.

Like a mentioned case where an Alto stopped while negotiating a steep incline in second gear, shifted to first and moved on. This specific story happens when you let the car start the climb in second gear and dont press the pedal hard enough for the ECU to sense that it needs to supply more torque. It follows a feedback mechanism after all.

[*]Now, for aggressive overtaking moves on the highway, I would never ever trust the automatic shifting of the AMT. It's downright dangerous. But, the manual mode on the Maruti's AMT solves that problem completely!

This is precisely where we very badly require a manual mode in the AMT. No matter how strong the engine is, aggressive overtake is a maneuver where all the equations need to fit the case perfectly. In such a case, one can't allow AMT to change a part of the equation in the midst of the already complex calculation.

[ALTIMAed]

Originally Posted by govindremesh

No Dealer can deliver a car without a temporary or a permanent registration. A temporary registration is usually provided if the owner of the car resides in a different RTO jurisdiction than where the dealership is present. If your Father in Law resides in Thrissur, it is the dealership's responsibility to get the car registered unless you have opted to register it yourself.

Kerala has many SRTOs. Thrissur is KL-08. Ask your FIL to check the jurisdiction of the RTO that covers his registered address. Usually, if the RTO is not far, dealership does help you out to get the car registered.

It could be so that the dealer does not want to get into the hassle of registering the model (Kwid AMT) with the RTO at this stage for reasons best known to them. I purchased a Dzire AGS (Auto Gear Shift), invoiced on 30th June 2016, delivery on 14th July 2016 - the delay was due to registration. The Dzire AGS was not registered as a variant at the Salt Lake, Kolkata RTO (WB08). It took 8 days to register after necessary documents were submitted.

[coolvenk]

Originally Posted by amalji

The Renault Kwid's latest version scores 1 star which is the segment topper! While, I would have wanted it to be somewhere around 3 stars, it still is the safest car in the segment now.

I want to strongly disagree with the spirit of your comment above. Here's why.

While you're right that the Kwid scored 1 star, the GNCAP report you cite notes the following:
"It was confirmed that Renault added reinforcements in the structure but only in the driver side and not in the passenger side."

Translation: Renault knew our test and gamed it so they could pass.

It is therefore unclear that the Kwid is safe even to the extent of the 1 star it got on the GNCAP test. I would like to see this noted clearly in the official review; not just the headline of the (latest) GNCAP test, which hardly reflects the full story.

For the reader wishing to see the report for herself:
http://www.globalncap.org/limited-pr...honda-mobilio/

[ALTIMAed]

With my 3800 kms experience with my Dzire AGS (having driven torque convertors and CVTs extensively abroad), I personally would like to have a manual over ride available. I remember my Nissan Altima SV 2014 manufacture 2015 model (CVT transmission), did not have a manual option, but on ghats, uphill and downhill, I could feel the CVT adapting to the accelerator inputs or for the matter no inputs. While going downhill there definitely, with the accelerator not depressed, there definitely was a feel of retardation as if the CVT is shifting to a ratio which shall keep engine braking in mind

[sidzzone]

Nice review! The knob only looks gimmicky. One of the main advantages of driving an automatic for me is the creep feature. If I ponder long enough, I conclude that I can somehow live without it, but then manual modes are missing.

Automatics are supposed to be convenient. Looking at this AMT, inconveniences are more! No creeping without throttle input and no manual mode. So, it poses a problem in city driving (bumper to bumper and parking) and on highways.

The aam junta will probably look at the knob and relate it to high end cars like the Jaguar which has a knob instead of a transmission stick and that is probably the expectation from Renault as well. While this may result in great sales initially, after some driving word will spread.

[Cooltronics]

Originally Posted by GTO

Please don't blame the brake pedal for someone's stupid mistake.

Of all the pedals, the brake is the most important one. Only logical for it to be the biggest if there is room (not the case with MTs). There's a reason why every AT car in the world has a big brake pedal.
.

I am really not sure how a wider pedal helps. There are theories that its a bigger target to hit etc. but we all hit the brakes at an angle and not thump it perpendicular. This makes it all the more no different to have wider brake pedal.
In-fact, driver's who reflexively push their left leg to press the clutch(which is not there in AT) end up hitting the brake pedal.

While I am not against wider pedal, I see no deal breaker in having current size pedal.

[400notout]

Originally Posted by govindremesh

No Dealer can deliver a car without a temporary or a permanent registration. A temporary registration is usually provided if the owner of the car resides in a different RTO jurisdiction than where the dealership is present. If your Father in Law resides in Thrissur, it is the dealership's responsibility to get the car registered unless you have opted to register it yourself.

Kerala has many SRTOs. Thrissur is KL-08. Ask your FIL to check the jurisdiction of the RTO that covers his registered address. Usually, if the RTO is not far, dealership does help you out to get the car registered.

Thanks for the info, my father in law resides at wadakkanchery. He told me he needs to get it registered at wadakkanchery RTO which is KL-48. However, as GTO and ALTIMAed have pointed out i'll ask him to ask at the RTO if the model is updated there.

[nishsingh]

Originally Posted by GTO

There is no brake hold on the Kwid AMT. Renault has smartly communicated that you don't need to press the brake pedal at red lights (the car won't roll as long as the surface is flat). That statement can be misconstrued. For safety reasons, we still insist that Kwid AMT owners keep the brake pedal pressed.

I agree, looks like a smart corporate ploy to make it stand out as a feature.

However, this does seem possible, as advertised by Automate.in (an aftermarket braking system provider) under the AMT section on their webpage -

"
In an AMT vehicle you have only D (Drive), N (Neutral) or R (Reverse) modes. As there is no P (Parking) mode, hence when the driver stops the car on a slope and tries to start from standstill again, the car will ROLLBACK depending on the degree of the gradient. Also signals now days are of 3 to 5 minute durations during which time the driver has to keep his/her leg on the brake constantly pull the handbrake in the N mode, due to the possible inclination of the road.

AUTOBRAKE replaces the need of keeping the vehicle in the N mode and pulling the handbrake, by intelligent keeping the vehicle brake pressed even in the D mode.

When the AUTOBRAKE system is activated, the handbrake indicator light on the dashboard will glow, indicating that the virtual brake is active. Now the driver can relax and remove his leg from the brake without any fear. He/she can even keep the vehicle in D mode without fear of roll back. When the driver starts to accelerate, the vehicle will move only ahead if the vehicle is in forward gear and only backward if it’s in reverse gear.

The biggest advantage of the AUTOBRAKE is observed on steep slopes, where even the handbrake is ineffective, as the handbrake only operates the rear two wheels whereas the AUTOBRAKE operates on all the four wheels.

"

From - http://automateindia.in/index.php/pr...ke-system-abs/

Looks like a test drive is due from my end to clear things up and make sure!

[GTO]

Originally Posted by coolvenk

I must say, though, that I was a bit disappointed to see no mention of safety concerns with the Kwid.

The Kwid is as safe or unsafe as its direct competitors are. Unfortunately, you can't buy a safe AT for 4 lakhs, unless you go down the pre-owned route. You can't single out the Kwid - it's a segment specific problem.

Of course, if the Kwid was a zero star car while the Alto & Nano were 4 star cars, it would definitely make it to the macro likes & dislikes list. But that's not the case.

Originally Posted by govindremesh

But then, can any dealer in the country start delivering the car to the customer if the Transport Commissioner in the state has not approved it?

Yes. I remember Thar owners in some cities running for long on temp plates as their RTOs still hadn't been updated on the new launch.

Originally Posted by nishsingh

AUTOBRAKE replaces the need of keeping the vehicle in the N mode and pulling the handbrake, by intelligent keeping the vehicle brake pressed even in the D mode.

Nice. But the Kwid doesn't have auto-hold (Omkar reconfirmed the same).

[coolvenk]

Originally Posted by GTO

The Kwid is as safe or unsafe as its direct competitors are. Unfortunately, you can't buy a safe AT for 4 lakhs, unless you go down the pre-owned route. You can't single out the Kwid - it's a segment specific problem.

Of course, if the Kwid was a zero star car while the Alto & Nano were 4 star cars, it would definitely make it to the macro likes & dislikes list. But that's not the case.

The reason you can't buy a safe AT for 4 lakhs (or 5) is that the auto manufacturers don't think consumers care about this issue. Many consumers don't care because they are not aware of the gravity of this issue. They are not aware of the same because in most cases, the media (including the present website) does not sufficiently highlight this issue. The media doesn't highlight the issue because bringing this up in a review of a car is futile because none of its direct competitors does favorably with respect to this parameter. While this parable may not be 100℅ of the story (e.g. lack of adequate govt. regulation), I think there is some truth to it that makes it a chicken and egg problem.

I think we should include a line upfront that there is no evidence that any car in the segment is particularly safe. This may seem an obvious, even mundane statement to us, but it may be a revelation to many of our readers, who may, for example, end up considering the preowned segment more seriously as a result.

[hybridpetrol]

Excellent and crisp review! Just the details that one is looking for.
Every car owner must know the limits of their own driving style and that of the car to drive safely.
When driving the Kwid they should remember that, since they can't switch gears at will, and entirely depend on the AMT system for gear selection, they should not attempt to overtake a fast moving vehicle on single lanes. Similarly, they should learn to use the hand brake every time they stop at inclines and signals to prevent rolling backwards. This can be painful at first for those who never used handbrakes when driving their manuals.
I would say the creep function will not be missed by those who transition from manual to automatic or a first time buyer, since it can be managed with slight accelerator inputs, just like in manual. At least, there is relief from clutch in traffic!

[vsrivatsa]

I was looking at the Kwid AMT as a potential car for my wife. Based on the comments and discussion so far - to me in summary - it looks like in terms of relative comparison - the Alto AMT is a better bet than Kwid AMT due to the lack of the Manual Mode and if one is keen on buying the Kwid, the wise move would be to stick to the 1.0 L Manual variant.

I intend to do a test drive of the Kwid AMT this weekend. Will try in some slopes and inclines and post about my experience on how the AMT fares.