[GuChDa]

Originally Posted by pravint

Hey That is not the case, most of the automakers are turning away from Radars because they are prone to false triggers.
Also to validate radar's correctness camera/image processing is needed, making radars less important day by day.
Even Tesla's newer autopilot system only uses cameras.

Yes, I too heard about it but then there are doubts on camera only system functioning in any of the weather conditions apart from normal.

[Venkatesh]

Honda Elevate is scheduled to launch in September along with start of deliveries.

- India the first country to manufacture the Elevate globally.

- Elevate has a localization of more than 90%.

Source

[pravint]

Originally Posted by GuChDa

Yes, I too heard about it but then there are doubts on camera only system functioning in any of the weather conditions apart from normal.

ADAS systems upto Level2 are assisting systems and as per ADAS standard "driver must constantly supervise"
When humans(primary input) can't function properly in bad weather we can't expect secondary systems to handle the bad things.
Both camera and radar/lidar perform poorly in bad weather and humans should either take control if possible or should stop at safe place.

[sunikkat]

From the reviews a very underwhelming product, as expected. The 1.5 iVTEC is no where closer to competition.
Honda is the most lazy manufacturer in India. That engine is from yesteryear’s and it is still the only option for Honda. There is not a single exciting product from Honda in India. From my perspective it will eat up more of City’s share than other CSUVs.

[wheelguy]

Originally Posted by GuChDa

Driving sensibly and carefully is the only protection. Ratings are mental satisfaction though.

It is like saying "I don't need a helmet because I'm a talented and careful bike rider, helmet is just for the mental satisfaction". An unrated helmet sold on the roadside might serve the purpose of mental satisfaction and for the purpose of preventing challans, but if it needs to save lives in case of an accident then one definitely needs a top rated helmet.

Driving sensibly and carefully won't help if other motorists on the road are idiots. It only helps if every driver on the road is a careful driver and that can never happen.

Active safety in most cases prevents you from doing accidents while passive safety helps you when accident happens. There's a difference in that.

Imagine this, driver A is a careful driver and driver B is a senseless driver. Despite driving carefully driver A cannot avoid the accident if driver B comes and collides into him, in such instances safety provided by a better structure is more important for your life than the active safety features.

Another argument which I frequently come across is, safe car or unsafe car doesn't matter for my use case because I use it within the city limits. I have seen accidents across Delhi and Hyderabad which happened within the city limits, and sadly few people despite no fault of them lost their lives in those accidents. In fact, I've seen an accident happen right in front of my eyes in midst of the city, it traumatized me for few months.

It doesn't matter if people don't care about their safety, that's their choice, but what irks me is these people pushing various stupid arguments to write off the importance of safety.

Note, the post is not directed at you, it's a generic post directed at everyone.

[Waspune]

Originally Posted by Explorer...

Thailand made City was tested and rated 5 star on ASEAN NCAP, not the Indian made. This was mentioned in fine print.

Ok right! However even the previous gen City and Jazz scored a 4. So I would expect a minimum 4 for Elevate.

[07CR]

Originally Posted by pravint

above data clearly shows City/elevate falls under category of level 2 ADAS.

By that logic it indeed is a Level 2 Adas. But it definitely is an inferior implementation of ADAS because it is not equipped to handle the rear cross traffic alerts and therefore an inferior version of ADAS compared to Astor/Seltos.

[evilminstrel]

Originally Posted by VRSriram

First they did not bring their Turbo (they sell Turbo RS in Pakistan) . Alternately they could have plonked 1.8 NA which was there in Civic. They even did not tune 1.5 for compensating additional weight. And now they limit the speed. When competition has moved ahead, such apathy in their strategy proves their poor commitment to India. Any other serious manufacturer would have give their best considering this is their last chance.

Originally Posted by Pythonista

Unless Honda really HITS with the pricing, there is really no reason to pick this over the new Seltos or maybe the Hyryder.

Originally Posted by Waspune

Thanks for the detailed review!

My biggest gripe is the engine. Yes the 1.5 ivtec is one of the best NA engines around but it is quite long in the tooth now the competition has moved on turbo petrols which have a much usable mid range grunt that makes long drives less intensive and fun. I wish Honda debuted their excellent turbo petrols with the Elevate.

I am not someone who yearns for a ton of features in a car but someone who wants a good mechanical package. Being a Honda, reliability is a bonus.

Oh, I just can't comprehend the immense fascination with Turbo engines, really! I mean, who needs them in city drives? It's not like they magically transform your daily commute into a thrilling race track experience! Even if it would, I dont know how Schumachers of cities are going to get out of it!!

Honda Engines are not contemporary? Why do you think so? Do you think that Honda is surviving on the same IVTECH engines in 80s/90s?

Honda, and many of their competitors still file Patents for intelligent variable timing engines and its various aspects. In fact there is war of patents going on between Honda and Toyota for variable timing innovation. Mere fact that IVTECH name has not changed, does not mean the technology has not. Honda offers state of art NA engines in IVTECH and on many aspects it is ahead of Turbo engines.

Mere fact that Turbo is here does not mean everyone needs one. It also does not mean that that there is no alternative to Turbo. Please note:

1. Turbo engines will not help you at lower speed- it is in fact nightmare to drive a turbo in traffic- God forbid if you are driving manual.
   
2. Turbo cannot match the refinements of NA, that too Honda- not a chance.
   
3. Turbo is high maintenance.
   
4. Turbo is not settled engine yet, despite the fact it saw light of the day in 60s/70s, NA is still much ahead in terms of sale. This can also be gauged from the fact that Turbo engines cannot match the pricing of NA even after several decades of existence.
   
5. Turbo cannot match reliability of NA.

Now ask yourself, why would Honda not launch a Turbo Engine in a market which is known for hassle free Honda service and would directly go for Electric Engines? Anyone can get an answer if think with open mind.

Turbo this, Turbo that! Can a man have a good drive to his office with his school sweetheart? Thank you!

[GuChDa]

Originally Posted by wheelguy

It is like saying "I don't need a helmet because I'm a talented and careful bike rider, helmet is just for the mental satisfaction". An unrated helmet sold on the roadside might serve the purpose of mental satisfaction and for the purpose preventing challans, but if it needs to save lives in case of an accident then one definitely needs a top rated helmet.

Driving sensibly and carefully won't help if other motorists on the road are idiots. It only helps if every driver on the road is a careful driver and that can never happen.

Active safety in most cases prevents you from doing accidents while passive safety helps you when accident happens. There's a difference in that.

Imagine this, driver A is a careful driver and driver B is a senseless driver. Despite driving carefully driver A cannot avoid the accident if driver B comes and collides into him, in such instances safety provided by a better structure is more important for your life than the active safety features.

Another argument which I frequently come across is, safe car or unsafe car doesn't matter for my use case because I use it within the city limits. I have seen accidents across Delhi and Hyderabad which happened within the city limits, and sadly few people despite no fault of them lost their lives in those accidents. In fact, I've seen an accident happen right in front of my eyes in midst of the city, it traumatized me for few months.

It doesn't matter if people don't care about their safety, that's their choice, but what irks me is these people pushing various stupid arguments to write off the importance of safety.

Note, the post is not directed at you, it's a generic post directed at everyone.

Hahah. In fact you have actually put my thoughts but from a opposite view point.

I am saying since you are wearing a helmet it doesn't guarantee anything except the feeling for being prepared . Meaning, having a crash test ratings higher which is based on the structure alone isn't fool proof. Active safety also helps and so would careful driving.

For me all the 3 factors weight equally.
Let's say, do you prefer only 5 star car with 2 airbags or lean towards 4 start or lesser with 6 airbags?

[amalji]

Originally Posted by GuChDa

For me all the 3 factors weight equally.
Let's say, do you prefer only 5 star car with 2 airbags or lean towards 4 start or lesser with 6 airbags?

Modern crash tests take into account all of these. Without 6 airbags, you will never get a 5 star crash test rating in today's crash tests.

[Waspune]

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

Oh, I just can't comprehend the immense fascination with Turbo engines, really! I mean, who needs them in city drives? It's not like they magically transform your daily commute into a thrilling race track experience! Even if it would, I dont know how Schumachers of cities are going to get out of it!!

Mere fact that Turbo is here does not mean everyone needs one. It also does not mean that that there is no alternative to Turbo.

Our usage is around 40:60 (city: highway) as we love road trips. So I prefer a turbo petrol/diesel as it leads to less gear changes and an effortless yet fast drive due to excellent mid range torque. Your usage might be more in the city. So to each his own!
In any case it’s not a city car/SUV per se and people are eventually going to take it on the highway where it would become apparent.

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

Now ask yourself, why would Honda not launch a Turbo Engine in a market which is known for hassle free Honda service and would directly go for Electric Engines?

That is because Honda considers India as a dumping ground where they can sell obsolete stuff! Remember the new Civic? Such an excellent car with age old engine transmission combo (1.8 CVT) that wasn’t offered anywhere else in the world.
The 1.0 vtec and 1.5 vtec turbo petrol engines are also quite reliable. It’s just that Honda doesn’t find us Indians worthy of their turbo petrol engines.

[GuChDa]

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

Oh, I just can't comprehend the immense fascination with Turbo engines, really! I mean, who needs them in city drives? It's not like they magically transform your daily commute into a thrilling race track experience! Even if it would, I dont know how Schumachers of cities are going to get out of it!!

Honda Engines are not contemporary? Why do you think so? Do you think that Honda is surviving on the same IVTECH engines in 80s/90s?

Honda, and many of their competitors still file Patents for intelligent variable timing engines and its various aspects. In fact there is war of patents going on between Honda and Toyota for variable timing innovation. Mere fact that IVTECH name has not changed, does not mean the technology has not. Honda offers state of art NA engines in IVTECH and on many aspects it is ahead of Turbo engines.

Mere fact that Turbo is here does not mean everyone needs one. It also does not mean that that there is no alternative to Turbo. Please note:

1. Turbo engines will not help you at lower speed- it is in fact nightmare to drive a turbo in traffic- God forbid if you are driving manual.
   
2. Turbo cannot match the refinements of NA, that too Honda- not a chance.
   
3. Turbo is high maintenance.
   
4. Turbo is not settled engine yet, despite the fact it saw light of the day in 60s/70s, NA is still much ahead in terms of sale. This can also be gauged from the fact that Turbo engines cannot match the pricing of NA even after several decades of existence.
   
5. Turbo cannot match reliability of NA.

Now ask yourself, why would Honda not launch a Turbo Engine in a market which is known for hassle free Honda service and would directly go for Electric Engines? Anyone can get an answer if think with open mind.

Turbo this, Turbo that! Can a man have a good drive to his office with his school sweetheart? Thank you!

I agree to your views to an extent. The issue of so much debate with Elevate is the hype it created prior to launch. Expectations were high and everyone felt that it would land as a bolt from the sky with all this and that.
It finally landed in bare bones that's difficult for people including me to relate. Not that it's bad. It just does basic things right and more so for the urban drives.

People who are in immediate need and those who can relate to the brand will easily accept. For those who are in a lookout for a future they would always end up as they would be the ones looking for something more, comparable or different.

I presume that most people taking the NA especially from Koreans are those who found satisfaction in their investment by the features it offers and not the performance. They could also be those who are low mile runners. Happy with Pano, Ventilated seats, electric brakes, 360 degree, powered seats, Bose etc etc..

For others, Elevate in present form will be a dissapointment for any of their valid thoughts and reasoning.

[pannags]

Brilliant review. Once again, the go to place for all the details for anyone interested in knowing about or planning to buy the Honda.

Have been catching up on the many video reviews on YouTube and comments here. The opinions are more polarizing than for any product from the recent past. Whether you like the Elevate or not, you can't be indifferent to it. That speaks volumes for how eagerly awaited this offering from Honda is.

Coming to my impressions, I think Honda has played really clever with the Elevate. You can't fault the car for what is offers:

• Decent performance despite the heavier chassis
• Legendary reliability that the powertrain is know for
• Brilliantly engineered suspension offering balanced ride and handling; steering seems well tuned as well
• Inoffensive, yet elegant design language
• Features with practicality rather than novelty in focus

I'd rather buy a car which has its essentials intact, dynamics sorted and reliability assured, than one that offers fancy bells and whistles, while compromising on the engineering aspects.

One can fit aftermarket parking sensors, a 360 degree camera, a well calibrated TPMS system, etc., but cannot alter the way the car handles or is built or drives.

[evilminstrel]

Originally Posted by GuChDa

Yes, I too heard about it but then there are doubts on camera only system functioning in any of the weather conditions apart from normal.

Radar are electromagnetic waves. Camera uses light, although another EM wave, but with capacity to convert information much more accurately. FOr exampe, RADAR can tell you an obstruction of such and such dimensions. Camera based RADAR can tell you that it is a cart. So less noise in information leading to more informed decision. It is just a very simple example - do not take it to your heart! (everybody!!)

Dont worry about range.It is not that they RADAR systems in cars are required to be equivalent to fighter jet accuracy. Camera is able to sense much more than reasonable distance required to take precautionary actions.

[Flash777]

Originally Posted by 07CR

Request you both to share any evidence of Honda claiming the ADAS to be level 2. I am quite sure if it was, Honda would have marketed it the same. Request to share the link, if you have it.

Until then I am pretty sure this is level one ADAS, as there are many specific features that are offered on Level 2 claimed ADAS cars like Astor and Seltos FL, which are absent on the Elevate.

ADAS Level 2 can differ in the number of Features, but the fact that it has Autonomous Braking along with Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane Change Correction, etc qualifies it for Level 2.

The same has also been confirmed by EVO India in their review

https://youtu.be/eYa60wryllU