[GuChDa]

Originally Posted by amalji

Modern crash tests take into account all of these. Without 6 airbags, you will never get a 5 star crash test rating in today's crash tests.

Exactly but I am not sure if that has been put to practice. All the earlier cars rated on previous versions needs to be re evaluated.

That's exactly my point that everything matters not the structure alone as in the past. There is a sudden interest in the public about safety (thanks to Tata) but without proper correlation between different asepcts.

Correct me if I am wrong in understanding the protocol implementation status.

[GuChDa]

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

Radar are electromagnetic waves. Camera uses light, although another EM wave, but with capacity to convert information much more accurately. FOr exampe, RADAR can tell you an obstruction of such and such dimensions. Camera based RADAR can tell you that it is a cart. So less noise in information leading to more informed decision. It is just a very simple example - do not take it to your heart! (everybody!!)

Dont worry about range.It is not that they RADAR systems in cars are required to be equivalent to fighter jet accuracy. Camera is able to sense much more than reasonable distance required to take precautionary actions.

I got your point. As long as the camera functions in any of the lighting conditions it's simple with AI aiding to the decisions to follow.
I also heard that Tesla that's been quoted here uses some high end optics to counter the limitations and I don't think Honda uses those systems. That's the basic idea I have on this.

[CentreOfGravity]

Originally Posted by swoosh

Attachment 2484411

Attachment 2484414


Oh man, I'm really disappointed with that hump on the seat. A hump on the floor is fine, but why did they have to stick one between the passenger seats too? It's a total deal breaker for family buyers as it seems even kids may struggle to sit comfortably in the middle seat. It is unexpected from a brand that is known for its practical and thoughtful elements in their cars. Most family buyers in India look for 3 seaters at the rear and it's a bummer for sure.

Originally Posted by delusional_fool

Rear seat comfort (seat hump) and safety (middle hear rest) for 3 is lacking. For a car aimed at family audience, seating 3 at the back is important.

We have a 5th gen Honda City, and trust me, the seat hump is far from an inconvenience. Sure, it may not be as comfy as the other two seats, but is definitely not very uncomfortable.

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Toyota Yaris- This was a great product that TKML launched back in the day, with 7 airbags as standard, no-nonsense engineering in the 1.5 NA, Toyota reliability. But it simply did not work when the market was moving towards feature rich cars with more power/performance.

As I see it, where the Yaris was then is where the City is now. I mean, compared to its competitors, the City is slightly outdated. However, it still sells in good numbers and mind you, it had the least number of features per se in the segment (not considering the Ciaz). It does not even have an engine to squarely compete against the Virtus GT and Verna Turbo. The Yaris' failure can be attributed to different reasons like its weird looks (subjective), low space, and lackluster engine.

Originally Posted by coldice4u

Would anyone know why do car manufacturers leave such space at the edge of seats. If the seat could've been extended into the highlighted areas, this car would have had a impressive rear bench. Looking at the picture as it is, that is a disappointing bench in terms of the ability to seat 3 vis a vis the size of the car itself.

Completely agree with you. In fact, in the City, the cushioning extends to those areas as well making it a supremely comfortable bench. No problems seating three abreast:


Image credit - The Times Of India

[evilminstrel]

Originally Posted by Waspune

Our usage is around 40:60 (city: highway) as we love road trips. So I prefer a turbo petrol/diesel as it leads to less gear changes and an effortless yet fast drive due to excellent mid range torque. You might be only driving in the city. So to each his own!



That is because Honda considers India as a dumping ground where they can sell obsolete stuff! Remember the new Civic? Such an excellent car with age old engine transmission combo (1.8 CVT) that wasn’t offered anywhere else in the world.
The 1.0 vtec and 1.5 vtec turbo petrol engines are also quite reliable. It’s just that Honda doesn’t find us Indians worthy of their turbo petrol engines.

No dear fellow. I drive about 100 Kms everyday, mix of highway and city with my NA. In every two to three months I go for more than 3000 Kms drive around India (NA or Turbo, depending upon my mood). Another fact: My Turbo is diesel, so I don't have to suffer to death at lower revs ! So I know what I am taking about. I know you are not in terms with Honda, but lets just keep this to facts and not presumptions.

Another fact to give you perspective: Koreans are able to offer you features that even Indians manufacture are not able to because of Free Trade Agreement. They are not doing service to Indian Customers. Low graded cars loaded with features can be sold much cheaper in Indian market due to consumer preference for features added with benefits of FTAs. Cant do that in their own country. Now think who is dumping?

[Yieldway17]

Roomy, quite a good performing engine (comparing to the competitors' NA engines, turbos are priced higher), safe with ADAS 2 and hopefully a good crash testing score. Yet 99% of the posts even in a car enthusiasts forum is about 'features'. I guess I know why Hyundai and Kia are minting money in this country.

[sunikkat]

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

Now ask yourself, why would Honda not launch a Turbo Engine in a market which is known for hassle free Honda service and would directly go for Electric Engines? Anyone can get an answer if think with open mind.

Turbo this, Turbo that! Can a man have a good drive to his office with his school sweetheart? Thank you!

No offence and for each their own.

But if every manufacturer thought like that and played safe, we would have really been driving all boring cars and even without any new age features. You cannot deny Honda has been complacent in Indian market and it clearly shows in their sales.

Regarding Turbo vs NA, again personal preference, but after having used to turbo I would pick it 9 out of 10 times every time. Honestly I would never prefer to drive a NA engine on highways. Don’t want to get off topic with NA with Turbo, each one has their own preferences, so let’s respect that.

But the point here is other manufacturers (except VAG) has both engine options. Honda has the products and engines worldwide, it’s just that they are not serious about Indian market. They are just being lazy, and that’s why this product is so late to the market. Hope this succeed and Honda management wakes up to invest more in India.

[amalji]

Despite its shortcomings, the Honda Elevate is my favourite mid size SUV in the segment. Reasons listed below.

• A very practical cabin which is not claustrophobic.
• Ample boot space
• Best in class ground clearance
• Even with very high ground clearance, the ride still seems to be very good which i need to verify. Maybe Hyryder / Grand Vitara is still the benchmark here. City based platform and a bigger wheelbase than the city with a well tuned suspension might be of help here.
• Honda seems to have gotten even the dynamics right based on reviews even with such high ground clearance. Need to verify in person though.
• Trust in brand Honda for safety and reliability. This vehicle should be easy to maintain. Even the power train combination - Honda i-VTEC & Honda CVT will be one of the most reliable second only to Toyota maybe.
• A CVT will make the engine even more tractable due to the flexibility it has in choosing gear ratios. And paddle shifts in Honda CVTs can be lightning fast as well in case you are in a mood to have some fun.
• E20 compliant
• Not having a panoramic sunroof on top variants in a country like India with tropical climate in most parts.
• The power and torque figures looks more than adequate for me. I'm a reasonably fast driver but i do that sticking to speed limits. Most cars sold in India today can be driven fast without much sweat. I would pick a reasonably big NA engine or a hybrid anyday for better tractablity. Adequate torque across the rev range is what matters to me more than the spikes. When I'm on the road, I'm not there with the intend to race.
• The fact that Honda offers adaptive cruise control. I use cruise control on my Crysta for 80 to 90 percent of any of my highway drives. The same is the case with my wife's Yaris as well. Adaptive cruise control makes it even better.
• Lane keep assist will be another great feature especially as our highways gets better and better. This makes it future proof.
• The fact that Honda doesn't use radar for their ADAS gives me more peace of mind. The system will stop functioning if it's rainy. I prefer that over wrong judgements especially on a messy unpredictable Indian road.
• Options for 6 airbags, hill hold assist, vehicle stability control, traction control.
• I love the subtle and classy design of the interior. I find it just right. Not over done or under done.

What i sorely miss with the elevate

• Not having blind spot monitor. I know that there's a camera which displays what's in the blind spot. But for that you've to take your eyes of the road and look at the display. Blind spot monitor would have provided more intuitive audio visual signals instead which i feel is safer and more natural.
• Not having 3 point seat belts and head rests for the 5th passenger. How can you do that in this time, Honda?
• Missing Ventilated seats. This would have been such a handy feature in typical Indian climate.
• The fact that Honda is not offering UV cut glasses and curtains in this time of the illogical sun film ban.
• The fact that you didn't consider integrating this car with your beautiful hybrid power train. That would have made this a killer option. The only reason why I'm still considering Hyryder as an option inspite of elevate satisfying all my requirements is due to the unavailability of hybrid power train. A 4 cylinder hybrid in this segment would have made this the most refined hybrid in the segment.

What I'm concerned about

• I'm concerned whether brand Honda can survive in the Indian market for long where features are valued more than the fundamentals. One of the reasons why I choose brand Toyota is the peace of mind that they will support me for a long time. I hope brand Honda survives in India.

[GTO]

The sheer interest in brand Honda!! I can't think of too many car reviews of 2023 that hit 10 pages of discussion in less than 24 hours. This is exactly what I had hinted toward in the preview thread.

Originally Posted by GTO

I quite like the design! Looks clean, proportionate & a bit butch for a crossover. I would take this kind of styling over the Creta's el-weirdo concept car look any which day. That being said, I think Maruti has done a better job of contemporariness for the mass market in the Grand Vitara. That car does look smart.

Add some neat rims & subtle enhancements to the Elevate and it will look great. Am so happy Honda didn't overdo the cuts & creases, as we saw with so many of their cars (including the WR-V). Clean designs age better too.

Don't underestimate the power of brand Honda, guys. As long as the Elevate does most things right (like the City), doesn't do anything wrong (like the City) and is priced appropriately, the Elevate will do well. That being said, it won't be a runaway success because the competition in this segment is very fierce from same-price competitors (e.g. Creta), the segment below (fully-loaded sub-4 meter crossovers like the Sonet) and the size above (XUV700, Harrier, Scorpio-N).

Not offering the hybrid is inexplicable. When you are carrying a loaded gun in your arsenal, why the heck won't you take it out and fire? The Koreans offer more powerful turbo-petrols, the Koreans & Indians have turbo-diesels, Maruti-Toyota have hybrids with unbelievable FE...and Honda still believes its 1.5L NA motor is the best thing since sliced bread. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of the 1.5L Vtec motor & relish revving it to 7000 rpm. But why there isn't a hybrid on offer from the City Hybrid (and a turbo-petrol) is perplexing. This is Honda being lazy & complacent.

Looking at the engine offered, transmission technology, exterior design, interior design and feature list (nothing really stands out), this looks more like a launch of "2017" rather than "2023". It might as well have competed with the earlier Kia Seltos or 1st-gen Creta. Mahindra worked 10X harder with the XUV700 than Honda has with the Elevate.

[GuChDa]

Originally Posted by amalji

Despite its shortcomings, the Honda Elevate is my favourite mid size SUV in the segment. Reasons listed below.

Nicely bifurcated.

My view points.

1. I don't prefer Turbos and 1.5 NA just makes it manageable. May be 1.8 litre engine would justice just like Jazz globally sells with 1.5 but in India it's 1.2. But I very much expected Hybrid (costly or not, it would have given better performance, no rubber band effect, excellent FE and is the need of the day until BEVs takes over)

By the way read that next gen global kicks with Hybrid is expected in India

2. Not as spacious as City. Strictly for 2 at the rear. Width has been cut due to the form and also the roof line contouring eating away 2 to 3 inches of space at each of the sides at rear.

3. FE will be poor. I am guessing proper city driving should be 9 to 10 kmpl and highways around 15 to 16 kmpl at around 90 to 100 kmpl. All these when loaded partially. Again I am not sure for what fuel type Honda has given the ARAI ratings. I hope it's not E5 version and it's bases on E10 version of standard fuel available across the country.

4. I don't change cars within short span of time. Atleast 10 to 12 years. However, I maintain them well not to feel the need. With changing times i felt this should have been a 2018 launch (one generation behind). Something beyond a basic car which is well put even without lots of features, but falls with present changing times is what I am looking for.

5. In the future Honda should be launching a hybrid version with some other model. I have followed one of the interviews recently in which they mentioned this. I also heard that they are localizing the hybrid in India. Hondas future isn't at risk as long as they manage sales which is left due to the absence of WRV, Jazz which is around 3.5 to 4 K units PM, which elevate should fulfill.

[sunilarkt]

Honda states that the Elevate has been carefully evaluated for safety needs and will fulfill global standards.

Snippets from their media event

[CarguyNish]

Just went through Feature List of Grand Vitara, Toyota Hyryder and here are some major differences I found out as compared to Elevate.

1. Like Elevate, there are no ventilated seats in Grand Vitara and Hyryder. Yes, they are missing from 1.5 NA Petrol.
2. No Heads-up Display either
3. No Digital Instrument Cluster
4. No Wireless Charging
360 Degree camera is present

Compared to Grand Vitara and Hyryder, the Elevate is right up there when it comes to equipment list.

Although the Elevate isn't loaded to the gills like the Korean Rivals, some feelgood features(Missing in Seltos and Creta) in Elevate make it a good package like,

1. Walk away Auto Lock
2. Sense based Door Unlock/Lock
3. Headlights that automatically turn on when wipers are activated
4. Customisable Touchscreen HU
5. Slots to keep Mobilephones beside Handbrake

And so on,

I think this car will sell well provided Honda doesn't go greedy with pricing. They have learnt the mistakes from the past and I guess, this time most likely they'll surprise us. Let's wait and watch.

[aviator1101]

Any new launch from Honda is bound to evoke interest. That's the reputation the brand has created for itself globally.

Indian buyers have been spoilt with choices and competitive pricing : the cut throatism initiated by Koreans in the arena.

Hence, half the interest concerning Elevate has already been marred initially by the lack of features and hybrid/engine (turbo) options it seems.

However outdated in the design it may seem, the Elevate seems a sorted out product which will appeal to the mature customers who prefer function over form. (No offence to the young generation here)

What remains to be seen is the pricing in which the City's pricing and positioning Elevate with respect to City are obstacles Honda has to overcome.

If that is set right, Elevate will surely fill the SUV void in Honda's portfolio but unfortunately not be a young-crowd-puller.

[07CR]

Originally Posted by CarguyNish

Just went through Feature List of Grand Vitara, Toyota Hyryder and here are some major differences I found out as compared to Elevate.

1. Like Elevate, there are no ventilated seats in Grand Vitara and Hyryder. Yes, they are missing from 1.5 NA Petrol.
2. No Heads-up Display either
3. No Digital Instrument Cluster
4. No Wireless Charging
360 Degree camera is present

Compared to Grand Vitara and Hyryder, the Elevate is right up there when it comes to equipment list.

Hyryder is also available in AWD, at about the same rumored price of Elevate. It also gets the Pano Sunroof and 360 degree cam. It gets the semi digital instrument cluster, just like Elevate, if I am not wrong. Then there's few nicities like reclining rear seats, ambient lighting and proper TPMS systems (not tire deflation warning system like Elevate).

Originally Posted by CarguyNish

Although the Elevate isn't loaded to the gills like the Korean Rivals, some feelgood features(Missing in Seltos and Creta) in Elevate make it a good package like,

1. Walk away Auto Lock
2. Sense based Door Unlock/Lock
3. Headlights that automatically turn on when wipers are activated
4. Customisable Touchscreen HU
5. Slots to keep Mobilephones beside Handbrake

I do like 1 and 2, but 3 is something not much of a deal breaker IMO. I have a Ecosport S and Sonet iMT. Ecosport has point 3, but Sonet doesn't and I am least bothered by it.
Point 4, is available with Kia as well, and albeit with much longer list of customisations. Infact Hyundai/Kia started this trend of customizable HU.

Point 5, is also not a deal maker as such, as there are many slots to keep the mobilephones in Korean cars as well.

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

1. Turbo engines will not help you at lower speed- it is in fact nightmare to drive a turbo in traffic- God forbid if you are driving manual.
   
2. Turbo cannot match the refinements of NA, that too Honda- not a chance.
   
3. Turbo is high maintenance.
   
4. Turbo is not settled engine yet, despite the fact it saw light of the day in 60s/70s, NA is still much ahead in terms of sale. This can also be gauged from the fact that Turbo engines cannot match the pricing of NA even after several decades of existence.
   
5. Turbo cannot match reliability of NA.

I have been driving turbos for a decade now. Prior to that had a NA Chevy UVA. I can for sure say all above points have been proven false atleast in my case. The low end pull has been fantastic in all my turbo cars compared to the UVA. My Amaze S IDTEC, Ecosport S TDCI and Sonet Turbo P, have been absolutely 0 maintenance suffer almost 0 to nil turbo lag at city speeds and have exceeded a total of 1.7L kms of driving between them, without breaking a sweat. Sure the Amaze refinement was horrible, but the refinement of Sonet and Ecosport is absolutely spot on, and no one has had any complaints with respect to their refinements.

Honda deserves criticism for not introducing their turbos. Leave SE Asian countries, even Pakistan gets a 1.6 Turbo! Honda just doesn't think we are worthy of one!

[VRSriram]

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

Mere fact that Turbo is here does not mean everyone needs one. It also does not mean that that there is no alternative to Turbo. Please note:

1. Turbo engines will not help you at lower speed- it is in fact nightmare to drive a turbo in traffic- God forbid if you are driving manual.
   
2. Turbo cannot match the refinements of NA, that too Honda- not a chance.
   
3. Turbo is high maintenance.
   
4. Turbo is not settled engine yet, despite the fact it saw light of the day in 60s/70s, NA is still much ahead in terms of sale. This can also be gauged from the fact that Turbo engines cannot match the pricing of NA even after several decades of existence.
   
5. Turbo cannot match reliability of NA.

If there is a market for Turbo, it is not without any reason. Honda should have given this as additional powertrain atleast. Any reason can be said for not bringing Turbo but all ring hollow. Each technology will have both positives and negatives. You offer your best in technology to align with competition and not treat the market as dumping yard. Also when you launch a new product, launch it with the right powertrains at the begining itself and not offering hybrid here is also inexplicable.

[Pancham]

A no-nonsense car with a Honda badge and it doesn't look like Honda cut a lot of corners to build it - which means they are serious about the Elevate. Clearly my pick of the segment.

After reading about Seltos' safety ratings, I developed a mental block and cannot think of buying a Kia or a Hyundai ever (although I have owned two and have one currently).

The Elevate works perfectly for me because of:

1. Understated looks and NO BLING

2. NA legend of a motor - assuming this will be reliable in the long term and cheap and easy to repair compared to Turbo

3. Nice interiors - beautiful seats and buttons for almost everything

4. Good ground clearance

5. Spacious boot.

I think it has all the essential features. Also, I am not expecting this to undercut Seltos' pricing but I will be happy to pay for this over anything else in the segment.

Owning Hyundai cars for so long, I can say they don't age too well compared to Hondas. But alas! We only look for features these days.