[Stanher]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

Some comments from Harit.

Harit I know of one more 50's pickup in Pune, memory tells me it was a Chevy, black or very dark blue. She had even come to a rally in Pune around 98-99-00, and if Im not mistaken entered by a well known and respected Parsi family. I recently saw what is probably the same truck sitting in the corner of a bungalow. Then my neighbour once told me he has an early low light Ford F 100 in scrap condition in Hyderabad, and he was planning to dieselize it. Plus on a recent trip a few hours outside Pune I saw a genuine 50's Willys pick up lying in junk state. Im told it doesn't have the genuine engine.

Looks like someone has to come to the rescue of the hyderabadi F 100!! Do ask him the address (just say you'd want to check it out when you come here next) and then pm it to me

Btw, just curious- whats the history of these pick-ups in India? How did they get here? Were they brought by people working on some Indo-American project or Embassy vehicles or such?

Any inputs from Mr. Harit?

Incidentally, I recall one Fargo F-500(?) pick-up in Pista Green that was quite restorrable simply abandoned on the roadside of a local Scientific institute here, circa 8-10 years ago.

It had a rear canvas canopy, which was later nicked. Then one day it just disappeared (no surprise where if I guess right!)

It was parked just outside a Fire station belonging to the above institute so it was accompanied for a while by a Bedford Fire engine (which finally disappeared too) and they also have what looks like a 40s/50s chevy Fire engine junking away but thankfully inside the fire-station. I recall seeing it in use back in the 80s, when I was a kid and used to pass by that side with my dad.

[Prabal]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

Some comments from Harit.

So I attach the pics of two pick-ups, one a Chevy which I saw in a rally in Delhi.
The Chevy was thrown out from the vintage rally where it had come and the owner was quite hurt. If I remember, it was a Sikh gentleman, who was an official of that club conducting the rally or he was from Statesman. This Delhi folks will have to comment on. But the sheer and total arrogance of that man was amazing, making nasty comments even as cars were flagged off. It was horrible. And look at the pick-up. Probably ( I say this cautiously because someone may know of another) the only one in India and in good condition.
Harit
Attachment 62419
Attachment 62420

Spot on sir. This is the Chevy pick-up in Delhi that I was talking about. The first time I saw her, at the Statesman pre-event judging at Modern School, Barakhamaba Rd. was around eight-nine years ago. She was being driven by two very young Sikh gentlemen (of college-going age) who said that she'd been imported by their uncle from Kenya many years back. I don't know whether that claim was true or false (about it being their uncle's originally, that is), but the vehicle was amazingly original. At that time she had the original paint, although the coachwork needed a fair bit of attention. The engine too emitted that lovely low-end torquey sound - the kind you expect while uprooting tree stumps! They were not allowed to participate by the denizens of The Statesman Rally with their 'truck'. This photograph here is of a later date after she's been given a makeover, and in my opinion doesn't look half as good as she did in the original patina. Somewhere along the way, before or after this shot, she was also ravaged by a 'restorer'. Likely before this shot, because here she looks decent again, although the colour has changed from the pure blue that she originally was (this is like the Maruti Bayer Blue, right?). I don't know where she's gone, after I last saw her about four-five years ago while being ravaged by that restorer, who also did the vanishing act himself a few years later! No wait, in fact I also remember seeing her at a workshop in Noida that specialises in rally vehicles - they're the ones who probably put her back together before this picture was taken. Wonder where she's now. Maybe one of our deep-pocket 'collectors' has gobbled her up too after that. Hopefully though, she's still with those young Sikh folks, especially if they really are from the original owner's family!

[Brutus]

Fargo 's sold outside USA/Canada were all rebadged Dodges(not the powerwagans though), but theres one standing here that has Fargo Desoto writern all over it. The rear pick-up bed has been hacked up pretty bad, but, yes maybe its restorable. Its sitting at the Punjab engineering college(chandigarh) grounds(probably the only other palce other than palam where theres the only other restorable spitfire in India). Its been due for an auction for a pretty long time and i recon if anybody shows them a good price it would sell right away.

[liv2drv]

there used to be a purple pick up truck in Kailash colony in Delhi about 7-8 years ago. the car was in great condition and belonged to a dealer. Those were still the days when you could buy classics at throw away prices. The dealer was asking for 1.5 lacs, unfortunately i didn't have the money at the time... the car was in good condition. Its so sad that when classics were easily available, there was no money to buy them. Now you go to even look at a car just to admire it, no intention to buy, and the owner will throw a stupid figure at you! Recently i was asked to shell out 15 lacs for a chopped four door chevy... anyway, back to the topic of the purple pickup... it was a chev if i'm not mistaken. any one know where this car went?

[Stanher]

Originally Posted by brutus

Fargo 's sold outside USA/Canada were all rebadged Dodges(not the powerwagans though), but theres one standing here that has Fargo Desoto writern all over it.
Its been due for an auction for a pretty long time and i recon if anybody shows them a good price it would sell right away.

Do you have any pics. of this one? Also any contacts of the concerned persons? If so then I'm sure somebody would be willing to save her.

[JayD]

There used to be plenty of fargos with govt organizations in kerala, used to see some of them junking away at various electricity board offices till a few years back, but now they've disappeared!

[Brutus]

Well, its standing at a yard in the punjab engineering college in chandigard, right behind PGI(they even have a WW2 spitfire there). I didi have the pics somewhere, but i cannot seem to find them now, but i'll try to click new ones. I dont know why they hav'nt disposed it as yet, since its been standing there for quite a long time now, it was some sort of campus official vehicle or whatever.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by brutus

(they even have a WW2 spitfire there).

Went looking for this one some years back. Didnt manage to find it. Pics of this please.

[Brutus]

Its in the Aeronautical Engineering Department, a Spitfire 22(with the Rolls Royce griffin engine and a bubble canopy). Those guys even have a Rolls Royce Merlin66 from an earlier Spitfire. Its dismantled, with the undercarriage cut(actually 1 shock leg), the controling levers in a seperate place used to demonstrate how it works, and the motor elses-where, and so is the 5 blade prop. They are absolutely against taking pictures, because the last time someone put the pictures on the net, they were flooded with enquiries to sell it off, some offering $2 million, and some even contacting Airforce higher ups to force the college to sell it off.
When you enter the Aeronautical Engineering Department, go to the last room on the left and thats where its lying, with its wings lying sideby. Funny how they got such a huge plane to get inside a room no bigger than a bigsize bedroom.

[V-16]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

.......Harit I know of one more 50's pickup in Pune, memory tells me it was a Chevy, black or very dark blue. She had even come to a rally in Pune around 98-99-00, and if Im not mistaken entered by a well known and respected Parsi family. I recently saw what is probably the same truck sitting in the corner of a bungalow. Then my neighbour once told me he has an early low light Ford F 100 in scrap condition in Hyderabad, and he was planning to dieselize it. Plus on a recent trip a few hours outside Pune I saw a genuine 50's Willys pick up lying in junk state. Im told it doesn't have the genuine engine.

Please some one ...please let me know if there is a pick up i can buy/save/salvage. Im looking for one for years now, sadly havn't found even one.

[scooby05]

Originally Posted by V-16

Please some one ...please let me know if there is a pick up i can buy/save/salvage. Im looking for one for years now, sadly havn't found even one.

Gogi Sir, US consulate used to have one till a few years back. Check if its still standing around.

[harit]

Originally Posted by brutus

Its in the Aeronautical Engineering Department, a Spitfire 22(with the Rolls Royce griffin engine and a bubble canopy). Those guys even have a Rolls Royce Merlin66 from an earlier Spitfire. Its dismantled, with the undercarriage cut(actually 1 shock leg), the controling levers in a seperate place used to demonstrate how it works, and the motor elses-where, and so is the 5 blade prop. They are absolutely against taking pictures, because the last time someone put the pictures on the net, they were flooded with enquiries to sell it off, some offering $2 million, and some even contacting Airforce higher ups to force the college to sell it off.
When you enter the Aeronautical Engineering Department, go to the last room on the left and thats where its lying, with its wings lying sideby. Funny how they got such a huge plane to get inside a room no bigger than a bigsize bedroom.

This is off topic, but important. We do not bother about our heritage. In the old days the Spitfire was a useless piece of junk, to be kept in a college for teaching. That is how it survived. Thank God. But now that we know the value, an Airforce Museum should get into the act. This aircraft should be taken out, restored and kept in such a place for public viewing. These airforce guys could replace the plane with another, they surely have enough junk. And how relevant is a Spitfire today for Aeronautic teaching? Remember, in the old days all driving schools needed to display a car chassis as a legal requirement. They mainly used Austin 7's though one in Mumbai did use a Bantam chassis. These were at some stage obsolete and were sold off, useful for car restorations.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by harit

This is off topic, but important. We do not bother about our heritage. In the old days the Spitfire was a useless piece of junk, to be kept in a college for teaching. That is how it survived. Thank God. But now that we know the value, an Airforce Museum should get into the act. This aircraft should be taken out, restored and kept in such a place for public viewing. These airforce guys could replace the plane with another, they surely have enough junk. And how relevant is a Spitfire today for Aeronautic teaching? Remember, in the old days all driving schools needed to display a car chassis as a legal requirement. They mainly used Austin 7's though one in Mumbai did use a Bantam chassis. These were at some stage obsolete and were sold off, useful for car restorations.

Well, i have a different opinion about that. A few years back, a spitfire 9 was found in a riverbed near Chandigarh. The Air-force took to restoring it, and the way they did it made it look like some Circus contraption rather than a real plane. Just like any Vintage car, it better if these things land up in the hands of people who who thier jobs, and are going to keep it well, even if it mean it going abroad. The Air-force is going to do nothing but keep it as trophies outside their gates, like they did with them earlier. Infact they already have a Airworthy Spitfire 9 and Spitfire 18 at Palam, and they too have been lying rejected for some time now.
Bikram

[harit]

Originally Posted by brutus

Well, i have a different opinion about that. A few years back, a spitfire 9 was found in a riverbed near Chandigarh. The Air-force took to restoring it, and the way they did it made it look like some Circus contraption rather than a real plane. Just like any Vintage car, it better if these things land up in the hands of people who who thier jobs, and are going to keep it well, even if it mean it going abroad. The Air-force is going to do nothing but keep it as trophies outside their gates, like they did with them earlier. Infact they already have a Airworthy Spitfire 9 and Spitfire 18 at Palam, and they too have been lying rejected for some time now.
Bikram

We are saying a very similar thing. When I say that we do not care for our heritage, I do not mean you and me as individuals but the attitude of the authorities, be it a ministry or an organisation in General. But I do not agree that it is better to send an item out of India even if we do not maintain/restore these properly. Just a couple of days ago there was a
news item that a sandstone slab at the Taj Mahal in Agra fell off. Do we now allow the Taj to be sent out of India for better maintainance? Surely not.

Basically none of the authorities or ministries bother about heritage. Be it the armed forces, or the Railways, or the ministries. Even attempt or rather seemingly attempts made for heritage are half hearted. Attached is a news article which appeared in the Indian Express 24th December
Mumbai edition. How nice, Gujrat Police is to create a museum. But even the newspaper editor is at fault for wasting Newsprint like this. There are no contact details. The purpose of such a news item should be to encourage people to contribute. I have several photographs of a Jeep with BMC registration on which it says 'PILOT" and "AHMEDABAD POLICE". I would be more than willing to make a small contribution by making a framed collage of these photos, about 6 of them which they could hang on a wall. And it is interesting, the registration is not only of Bombay State but it is also a Bombay number. This photo came out of a big lot which I purchased from Chor Bazar. It came out from Police 'Katchra' and is so interesting in content, there are prohibition boats,Police Land Rovers ( I never knew that they had these),Amphibian trucks used in Police
action in Goa, laying of foundation stones, police motor workshops etc. This should have been preserved by them, but they sold the whole lot to a "ferrywallah".

Similarly I saved the International Woody station wagon formerly owned by the railways. The railways could easily collect more artifacts for their rail museum and have sub museums all over India. But just have a look at the Mysore museum, you will be disgusted. Clocks without movements, rusty wagons exposed to the elements etc.

Then there is the Army Museum in Ahmednagar. They have a Rolls Royce armoured car.Very rare, I believe just 3 to 4 survive in the world. And it is kept in the open along with other stuff like tanks.See Railway stations in smaller towns. There are many which have nice steam engines kept out in the open. They just deteriorate as they are left out to rot, giving an annual thick coat of ugly paint does not preserve these things.

Then go to Nehru Science Centre in Mumbai. What a bunch of Jokers. They have 2 engines, one of the first electric railway engines and not
preserved. They had been given the Mazagaon Docks steam truck, it was taken back after it was allowed to get dilapidated. They were presented a Sentinel Steam truck restored by Telco apprentices, fitted with new tyres. A pedestal was made and it was kept out in the open. And you know how far the Science Centre is away from the sea and the 'Nullah'. And we can go on.

One more personal note. I live on Laburnum Road, famous for Mani Bhavan where Mahatma Gandhi lived and now a Museum. I entered after many years with a tourist friend. I noticed that they were displaying the first set of the Gandhi currency notes in a frame. Rs 1/-, 2/-,5/-,10/- were OK but the Rs 100/- note was a Xerox copy. I had collected a lot and decided to give them one, I felt that a Xerox copy would look stupid. After 1 year when I had another visitor and went there, the xerox copy was still not replaced. "We have to arrange for a carpenter" is what they said. Stupid
uninspired people.

One of the major difficulties Vintage car owners face is with their registration books. Sometimes taxes are due, other times books are lost or unavailable as the owner did not transfer when new replacement series were issued, like BOM to BMW. RTO was supposed to keep the old
records, but now they even do not have the later records. So a special provision was made and a notification was issued to help vintage car owners. This and lifetime tax for Vintage/classic cars were some of the few good initiatives made by the government. But what happened? Only
selected few cars were given this benefit, a Humber, a Ford T, a MG TC, some cars belonging to a high official of VCCCI. So when a fascility was given, few kept this close to their chest, defeating the very purpose. So not only the government, but also the people themselves are responsible for this sad state of affairs. The was another issue about a Museum for Bombay, let someone else tell that story.

But there are collectors, who if given a chance will buy heritage and restore/preserve it. Like Mr. Tarun Takral. He purchased a railway waggon, had to PAY a premium over the scrappers. How ridiculous. He purchsed a plane from a flying club, double dekker bus from a municipality, and all were complicated issues. He persists, but many would not bother to go through all the trouble.

For many collectors it is very difficult to bear expenses for everything. First the artefact, then the restoration and then the housing/display. And public would be denied access in most cases as one cannot welcome visitors to see cars at home. Though some collectors have opened their premises for the public, at their expense. An example where such problems were solved is the Sinnsheim Technical Museum in Germany. This is a group of collectors who run the place. They display their artefacts indoors, maintain them to the extend possible, have fascilities for restoration which members can use, public is allowed to visit by paying an entrance fee which goes into the upkeep. And they also aquire stuff for the Museum which then belongs to the association. So they have the Concorde and the Russian Tupolev Concorde type plane, only place in the world to have both these planes. And Corporates, ministries donate stuff, they have very old machinery which are art objects themselves. And a
lot of World War II stuff.

So Mr. Brutus, we do agree with each other, but I would not like to see the stuff go out of India, as we again cannot import. Maybe if more people become aware some ministry may decide to set up a heritage centre
where even individuals can display their stuff.

[Brutus]

But theres a difference, its an aircraft. We can build and restore cars and all that stuff,i mean, even the Rolls aint that expensive to restore( recently a restorer in Chandigarh did one up), but planes are altogether a different league. If you go to the Warbirds-of-india, you would really want to see how the ambala airforce authorities found that riverbed plane and RESTORED it to look like some funny looking chinese toy, and then probably you would have the same feeling as i am. Even the Aeronautical Engineering Department here says they wouldnt be able to make out heads from tail if they were to restore it to its original condition, but if allowed to use parts from different make plane then they can certainly try to mock it up together, although they still wouldnt beleive it can fly.
Jeeps and cars are cheap to restore compared to planes, and we have most of the things available, but for something like a spitty means building 90% parts from sources.We just dont have people here who are willing to spend millons into restoring the warbirds, and thats the bottom of it. The palam spitfireIX was the only Airworthy spit well into the 90's because they still had a lot of old parts left and the rolls royce merlin motor was used in other palnes to so parts were available still, but it has never been flown since and knowning the attitude of our authorities, it already has doomed writtern all over it.

You are right about the authorities, it happens all over India. And not just the government, there are others too. There are a couple of rolls royce scout cars in the faridkot collection, along with a gold plated rolls,2 unassembled fokkers, lots of unassembled bikes(but they say a majority have been smuggled out of the country by greasing some hands), and there are about 6 Gpw/MB jeeps still inside that double cardboard shipping shell they used to be transported in the war. These belong to the trust of the raja and nobodys willing to do anything about it. And thats what happend to the Nabha trust too when all its cars were smuggled out, including a rolls that had a custom body that looked like a swan.
One more thing, heres how you spell sad, the kabbariwallas in pathankot told be there used to be scores of WW2 jeeps,spitfires and others they would buy from the forces, but back in the day, you never had a big market for army hand-me-downs, thus they were all scrapped. Altleast you still sometimes find WW2 Bantam trailers there now, just dont show the kabbariwalla how excited you are over the find,lol.
Bikram