1936 Lanchester Maharaja of Pratapgarh

BULLDOG · 29th March 2010, 00:44

Hi

This car was exported from India in 1993, now available for sale. Its a rare open bodied straight 8, won an award at Pebble Beach so possibly Concours condition. If you are influential in Vintage car circles in India, I would urge you to lobby government to allow this car back to India. Far too many of India's treasures have ended up in foreign hands, this may be a chance to repatriate just one.

For more info www.dunbarsloane.co.nz

I intend attending auction, don't think I can afford it though!

kasli · 29th March 2010, 10:07

what's the reserved price ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BULLDOG

Hi

This car was exported from India in 1993, now available for sale. Its a rare open bodied straight 8, won an award at Pebble Beach so possibly Concours condition. If you are influential in Vintage car circles in India, I would urge you to lobby government to allow this car back to India. Far too many of India's treasures have ended up in foreign hands, this may be a chance to repatriate just one.

For more info www.dunbarsloane.co.nz

I intend attending auction, don't think I can afford it though!

wasif · 29th March 2010, 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by BULLDOG

Hi

This car was exported from India in 1993, now available for sale. Its a rare open bodied straight 8, won an award at Pebble Beach so possibly Concours condition. If you are influential in Vintage car circles in India, I would urge you to lobby government to allow this car back to India. Far too many of India's treasures have ended up in foreign hands, this may be a chance to repatriate just one.

For more info www.dunbarsloane.co.nz

I intend attending auction, don't think I can afford it though!

What exactly do you mean by "lobby government to allow ths car back to India"

Obviously the owners are looking to get a good price so the only way it can ever come back to India is if the Govt of India actually bids on it, which I am sureyou agree is not going to happen.

If an India collector succesfully bids for the car then it will have to remain outside India like poor Tipu Sultan's Sword.

On another note it would be inteesting to learn how this car actually left the country, under what agreement. Are the owners free to do with it as they please or were they to bring the car back to India after a certain time.

There are two liks to PDF dcouments on the website, one detailing its history and teh other its provenance both of which are very interesting to read.

News to me is that this car was actualy ordered by the Nawanagar Royal Family and was gifted to the Pratabgarh Family in 64. This then means that it could nver have carried that red "PRATABGARH" plate. There is even a copy of the original regestration book showing teh reg as GJY 4756

The old reg before independance was "SS Nawanagar 3"

It is also show bearing the reg no " BYC 6217" in 1964

karlosdeville · 29th March 2010, 18:31

Sad to know the car is for sale, as I understand it is still with the Sisodia family, and possibly the only Indian entry at Pebble Beach, plus a prize winner.

The portfolio contains a treasure trove of literature, great old photos and articles, and the car will make a fine addition to any collection.

Any more information on this All India concours held at the Gateway in 1966?

wasif · 29th March 2010, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

Sad to know the car is for sale, as I understand it is still with the Sisodia family, and possibly the only Indian entry at Pebble Beach, plus a prize winner.

The portfolio contains a treasure trove of literature, great old photos and articles, and the car will make a fine addition to any collection.

Any more information on this All India concours held at the Gateway in 1966?

Well this might have been the only car entered at Pebble Beach which still owned by the oruiginal royal family.

Other cars from Indian Royalty, though not still owned by them, hae been regularly featured at the concours.

The most recent being the Patiala Talbot Lago owned currently by the Nethercutt Collection.

It would be very interesting to know why the family is parting with the car now !

harit · 29th March 2010, 23:43

This Lanchester left the country legally after a strong attempt was made to stop it from going out by the vintage car club current at that time and its office bearers. The car could be taken out as it could be proved that it was the owners ancestral property, and if that is so there is a provision to export a vintage or classic cars. I was told that it was shipped out from Gujrat.

There are some errors in interpreting the registration. The car had the Nawanagar plate. Then, this was changed to BYC, a local Gujrat number when that was a part of Bombay state. Strangely this change was made before the privy purses were abolished. GJY came on the car when Gujrat and Maharashtra separated. Later she was transferred to Pune, but remained GJY. Something is not quite right over here. When these new series were issued, they always mentioned the old numbers which they did in this book, Nawanagar and BYC. The number put with a rubber stamp is the last number of registration.
In Pune this car had a 8 Litre Bentley and a Bugatti for company.

Another fact not mentioned is that by and large, the car was restored in America and the deal was that she would be kept over there for 10 years for display. And so she went from one Museum to another, and had been properly and professionally restored.

I was very interested to read the newspaper clippings. I could read some cars like 1909 Fiat(that is now with Pranlal) and the article by Roni Khan looks interesting. He has pictured the Mumbai Delage now in Indore, Indore Daimler, Delahaye. On a page bottom left is a car on jacks, that is the Perry which broke down during an event. I believe now she is with Chaudharie in Delhi.

A couple of my friends know the owner who was in India a while back, I wanted to meet him but could not. But I did get some copies of the articles and letters shown here.

Great car to have had. Reserve price is anyone guess, but how does that matter to us over here?

Cheers harit

BULLDOG · 30th March 2010, 00:29

Wasif: "lobby government" is an euphemism for making a "donation" to get the neccessary approvals to return it to India. Might be possible if it is of cultural significvance, I'm just speculating, I'm not from India.

Reserve is unknown but owner wants NZ$400,000 which is about Rs12 million, I would guess reserve is NZ$300,000 (Rs9 million) I'm puzzled as to why he can't take it back to India with him as he legally owns the car?

Spitfire · 30th March 2010, 11:40

More pictures here:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/pre-19...ml#post1033623

This is such a beautiful car. How many have actually seen it? I tried to see whether I could get a glimpse of this car when in US, i think it was somewhere in California. But I guess it had gone to NZ by then. Around 2002 that is.

BULLDOG · 21st April 2010, 01:50

UPDATE: Car sold at auction yesterday for NZ$225,000 (approx. Rs6.75 million). I still think he could have repatriated the car to India, I'm sure it would be worth as much there.

wasif · 21st April 2010, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by BULLDOG

UPDATE: Car sold at auction yesterday for NZ$225,000 (approx. Rs6.75 million). I still think he could have repatriated the car to India, I'm sure it would be worth as much there.

WOW thats some price he would have probably not been able to get in India anyway !!

who is the proud new owner of the car now. What is the fate in store for it ? Is it going to remain in NZ ?

Also isn't it strange they auctioned it thru an auction house that deals mostly in no auto stuff whereas they could have gone to Sothebys or Christies in NZ

BULLDOG · 22nd April 2010, 03:34

Anonymous bid, I suspect US buyer. Christies or Southeby don't have branches here & rarely undertake auctions here. In Australia Bonhams & Shannons are the biggest auction houses.

the mole · 22nd April 2010, 22:14

225,000 NZ $ is not much there would have been many takers in Mumbai for the price, but again I am not sure it can be brought back once its out.

BULLDOG · 23rd April 2010, 08:52

I think the owner should have tried to get the car back to India, too many such treasurers lost to Western collectors. As he had been legally resident overseas, he may have been allowed to take it back to India as part of his personal effects not for resale.

wasif · 24th April 2010, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by BULLDOG

I think the owner should have tried to get the car back to India, too many such treasurers lost to Western collectors. As he had been legally resident overseas, he may have been allowed to take it back to India as part of his personal effects not for resale.

It appears it could have been brought back but the owners didn't really want to do so !

Pity

travancore · 25th April 2010, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by wasif

It appears it could have been brought back but the owners didn't really want to do so !

Pity

Here is some discussion on the car:

My 1936 Lanchester convertible | Review | carsguide.com.au

"His Highness the Maharajah Ranjitsinhji, the Jamsaheb of Nawanagar, gave it to his great nephew Maharaj Durgapratapsinh on his 18th birthday in 1964. Maharaj Durgapratapsinh moved to New Zealand in 1993 at the invitation of Sir Edmund Hilary, but when his wife died about two years ago, he decided to return to India.

"To take it (the car) back with him would be a nightmare because the Indian Government would want huge taxes and duties, so he's selling it," says Sloane. Maharaj Durgapratapsinh says the car has been "a member of my family for over 70 years so it is always difficult to part with something that close".

"But I guess the last nine years it's been in museums in America, so it's time for it to find a new owner who can enjoy it as well. "I don't mind who buys it so long as they have a love for the car and look after it and maybe let me visit it some time."

29th March 2010, 00:44	#1
BULLDOG Newbie Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 8 Thanked: 9 Times	1936 Lanchester Maharaja of Pratapgarh Hi This car was exported from India in 1993, now available for sale. Its a rare open bodied straight 8, won an award at Pebble Beach so possibly Concours condition. If you are influential in Vintage car circles in India, I would urge you to lobby government to allow this car back to India. Far too many of India's treasures have ended up in foreign hands, this may be a chance to repatriate just one. For more info www.dunbarsloane.co.nz I intend attending auction, don't think I can afford it though!
	(1) Thanks

29th March 2010, 18:31	#4
karlosdeville Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 12,153 Thanked: 18,976 Times View My Garage	Sad to know the car is for sale, as I understand it is still with the Sisodia family, and possibly the only Indian entry at Pebble Beach, plus a prize winner. The portfolio contains a treasure trove of literature, great old photos and articles, and the car will make a fine addition to any collection. Any more information on this All India concours held at the Gateway in 1966? Last edited by karlosdeville : 29th March 2010 at 18:32.
	() Thanks

29th March 2010, 23:43	#6
harit Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 4,036 Thanked: 3,311 Times	This Lanchester left the country legally after a strong attempt was made to stop it from going out by the vintage car club current at that time and its office bearers. The car could be taken out as it could be proved that it was the owners ancestral property, and if that is so there is a provision to export a vintage or classic cars. I was told that it was shipped out from Gujrat. There are some errors in interpreting the registration. The car had the Nawanagar plate. Then, this was changed to BYC, a local Gujrat number when that was a part of Bombay state. Strangely this change was made before the privy purses were abolished. GJY came on the car when Gujrat and Maharashtra separated. Later she was transferred to Pune, but remained GJY. Something is not quite right over here. When these new series were issued, they always mentioned the old numbers which they did in this book, Nawanagar and BYC. The number put with a rubber stamp is the last number of registration. In Pune this car had a 8 Litre Bentley and a Bugatti for company. Another fact not mentioned is that by and large, the car was restored in America and the deal was that she would be kept over there for 10 years for display. And so she went from one Museum to another, and had been properly and professionally restored. I was very interested to read the newspaper clippings. I could read some cars like 1909 Fiat(that is now with Pranlal) and the article by Roni Khan looks interesting. He has pictured the Mumbai Delage now in Indore, Indore Daimler, Delahaye. On a page bottom left is a car on jacks, that is the Perry which broke down during an event. I believe now she is with Chaudharie in Delhi. A couple of my friends know the owner who was in India a while back, I wanted to meet him but could not. But I did get some copies of the articles and letters shown here. Great car to have had. Reserve price is anyone guess, but how does that matter to us over here? Cheers harit Last edited by harit : 29th March 2010 at 23:51.
	() Thanks

30th March 2010, 00:29	#7
BULLDOG Newbie Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 8 Thanked: 9 Times	Wasif: "lobby government" is an euphemism for making a "donation" to get the neccessary approvals to return it to India. Might be possible if it is of cultural significvance, I'm just speculating, I'm not from India. Reserve is unknown but owner wants NZ$400,000 which is about Rs12 million, I would guess reserve is NZ$300,000 (Rs9 million) I'm puzzled as to why he can't take it back to India with him as he legally owns the car?
	() Thanks

30th March 2010, 11:40	#8
Spitfire BANNED Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka Posts: 3,313 Thanked: 778 Times	More pictures here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/pre-19...ml#post1033623 This is such a beautiful car. How many have actually seen it? I tried to see whether I could get a glimpse of this car when in US, i think it was somewhere in California. But I guess it had gone to NZ by then. Around 2002 that is.
	() Thanks

21st April 2010, 01:50	#9
BULLDOG Newbie Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 8 Thanked: 9 Times	UPDATE: Car sold at auction yesterday for NZ$225,000 (approx. Rs6.75 million). I still think he could have repatriated the car to India, I'm sure it would be worth as much there.
	() Thanks

22nd April 2010, 03:34	#11
BULLDOG Newbie Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 8 Thanked: 9 Times	Anonymous bid, I suspect US buyer. Christies or Southeby don't have branches here & rarely undertake auctions here. In Australia Bonhams & Shannons are the biggest auction houses.
	() Thanks

22nd April 2010, 22:14	#12
the mole Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 2,190 Thanked: 832 Times View My Garage	225,000 NZ $ is not much there would have been many takers in Mumbai for the price, but again I am not sure it can be brought back once its out.
	() Thanks

23rd April 2010, 08:52	#13
BULLDOG Newbie Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 8 Thanked: 9 Times	I think the owner should have tried to get the car back to India, too many such treasurers lost to Western collectors. As he had been legally resident overseas, he may have been allowed to take it back to India as part of his personal effects not for resale.
	() Thanks