[Viju]

Originally Posted by rakesh_r

How is one going to fit ABS on existing bikes?I have cl500 that has only front disc brakes.Has the government thought on this?

You don't have to. Please read my previous post.

Existing bikes only existing models which will continue to be on sale beyond April 2018 - not the bikes already sold in the market. There is no question of retrofitment of critical safety devices.

[ArizonaJim]

Originally Posted by Viju

ArizonaJim, you seem to have misunderstood the wordings in the draft. There is not going to be any retrofitment on existing two wheelers, and hence nothing needs to go into the junk pile.

The meaning of 'new' models in this case are the new models which will undergo Type Approval. These models will not be given Type Approval for mass production from April 2017 if they do not have CBS / ABS fitted on them.

The 'existing' models will be the ones which obtained Type Approval before April 2017, but continue to be in production till / beyond April 2018. These will be have to be fitted with CBS / ABS to be allowed to be on sale post the deadline...

You are possibly correct.

The text in the original post said,

ABS on new bikes compulsory from April 2017
ABS on existing bikes compulsory from April 2018
CBS on new bikes compulsory from April 2017
CBS on existing bikes compulsory from April 2018

If it had it said

ABS on new MODELS compulsory from April 2017
ABS on newly made existing MODELS compulsory from April 2018
CBS on new MODELS compulsory from April 2017
CBS on newly made existing MODELS compulsory from April 2018

I would not have pictured current owners having to retrofit their motorcycles.

I learned long ago that the exact wording of laws and proposed laws in extremely important.
One word can have massive implications and change the law from a good idea into something with horrible consequences.

To me, the phrase "existing bikes" means every motorcycle that was made prior to the date the law goes into effect.

Hopefully your interpretation is more accurate than mine and if it is, hopefully the proposed law will be worded to clarify which motorcycles will be effected.

[Sutripta]

I don't get the CBS part. Rider training and proper/ stricter licensing is what was required. Also, just as an aside, wondering how to implement CBS on a bike with a hydraulic disc up front, and a mechanical drum at the rear. Or maybe ABS perforce means a two channel setup.

Another fear I have is of landing up with badly engineered/ insufficiently tested/ sloppily calibrated systems. A tick checkbox approach. (eg. Our experience with FI as a pointer!)

I also do not see the point of leaving out the smaller bikes. My approach would have been that ABS HAS TO BE an available, properly priced option for all (small) models. (Incidentally, have the same thoughts on safety kits for cars.)

Regards
Sutripta

[Viju]

Just posting a screenshot from the original draft of the government proposal for clarity. The complete proposal is also attached.

@ArizonaJim: Hope there is no more confusion now as to whether vehicles already in the market are affected or not.

@Sutripta: Honda has been selling 2 wheelers in India with CBS (front disc / rear drum) since many years now. If you are keen to understand more about it, just check out an Aviator (disc variant) or a Unicorn 160.

ABS does not necessarily mean two channel - it can be one channel or two channel as long as it meets the performance requirements.



Draft Notific ref ABS fitment on Motorcycles_31 Augut 2015.pdf

[payeng]

As a consumer I will be thrilled if this comes true.

Single channel ABS would be ok to begin with.. Since compared to a rear wheel lock there is hardly any time to recover from a front wheel lock.

I have personally had two falls due to front wheel locking. Have had a couple of nervous rear wheel locks as well, but have thankfully recovered each time on releasing the pressure on the brakes.

Also for off riding locking the rear wheels sometimes allows to control a motorcycle.. also in models like the Triumph Tiger, in Off Road Setting, the ABS on the rear wheel gets deactivated.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by Viju

@Sutripta: Honda has been selling 2 wheelers in India with CBS (front disc / rear drum) since many years now. If you are keen to understand more about it, just check out an Aviator (disc variant) or a Unicorn 160.

ABS does not necessarily mean two channel - it can be one channel or two channel as long as it meets the performance requirements.

Thanks. Will look it up. But for lazy me, could you Pls. provide some links showing the mechanical arrangement.

The 2 channel was more in reference to CBS than ABSl

Regards
Sutripta

[Sutripta]

For those who have visited the AutoExpo: Any information regarding how manufacturers are going to tackle the statutory requirement of Combi Braking + ABS + mechanical rear brakes?

Regards
Sutripta

[mvadg]

Finally, seems like it is the law!
From The Hindu:
Anti-lock braking system a must for two-wheelers

The government has made it compulsory for all two-wheelers, which account for the highest share of accidents in the country, to either have the anti-lock braking system (ABS) or the combined braking system (CBS) by April 2019.
Two-wheeler manufacturers will have to fit the equipment for the existing scooter or bike models available for sale in the market by that time, and for all new models they plan to introduce from April 2018.
For two-wheelers with an engine capacity above 125 cc, fitting the ABS will be compulsory and for those with capacities at or below 125 cc, auto manufacturers will have an option to provide either the ABS or CBS.
The cost of two-wheelers is likely to go up between Rs.4,000 and Rs.6,000 as a result of the new norms notified by the Road Transport and Highways Ministry.
Two-wheelers are the most vulnerable among road users. According to official estimates, in 2014, 29.3 per cent, (or about 40,000 users), of 1.39 lakh people killed on roads were two-wheeler users — the highest share followed by cars, jeeps and taxis (22.7 per cent) and trucks and tempos (19.7 per cent).
The ABS, which helps riders maintain stability without skidding while applying the brake, will be mandatory for mopeds as well, which are typically bikes without gears.
The CBS distributes the pressure, applied on the rear wheel, to the front wheel minimising the possibility of a road accident.
However, the move will have no impact on the existing vehicles that ply on road.
The draft notification, issued by the government in August last year, had made CBS compulsory for two-wheelers at or below 125 cc and ABS for two-wheelers above 125 cc.
“As it would require a major design change, we have given the automobile industry time till April 2019,” said a senior Road Ministry official.
At present, ABS needs to be compulsorily fitted in tractors carrying hazardous goods or liquid petroleum gas, double decked transport vehicles and buses that ply on All India Tourist permit.
Interestingly, the norms make the ABS mandatory for a distinct category of motor cycles with maximum speed of 45 kmph and engine capacity of less than 50 cc.
“I hope this is not what the government intends to do. Some clarity on the rule for mopeds will be required,” said K.K. Gandhi, Executive Director (Tech), Society of Indian Automobiles Manufacturers (SIAM).
“Also, it would have been better if the government had given us the option between ABS and CBS at all levels,” Mr. Gandhi added.
He said SIAM would, however, not oppose the notification which was issued on March 16.

[antz.bin]

No mention of Electric 2 wheelers here? Why are they exempt?

[anandpkumar]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

No mention of Electric 2 wheelers here? Why are they exempt?

Probably because the power output of most 2 wheeler EVs in India is very low - usualy in the sub 15 bhp category. Also, EVs have a higher price point compared to similar 2 wheelers - so adding ABS/CBS to them will increase the price point even further, making it an unviable proposition. But good point - as 2 wheeler EVs in India become more capable and powerful, the need for similar safety features in these will also be felt.

[longhorn]

Seems like they have extended the deadlines. The earlier deadline was April 2017 for new 2 wheelers and April 2018 for existing ones. The technology is already available on some 150cc + bikes. Just a matter of extending it to lower models. What a wasted opportunity.

[groom]

mv-not-16-03-16-sl27.pdf

Attaching the actual notification released by MORTH.

[Sutripta]

^^^
So it is CBS or ABS, not CBS and ABS. Wonder about the rationale!

Regards
Sutripta

[Carafooz]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

^^^
So it is CBS or ABS, not CBS and ABS. Wonder about the rationale!

Regards
Sutripta

According to the notification,for bikes more than 125cc there is no option of ABS or CBS, it has to be a compulsory ABS ( CBS can be skipped ?).
Looks like the Bullet STD 350 which has drums, will get discs with ABS in 2019

[Viju]

Originally Posted by Carafooz

Looks like the Bullet STD 350 which has drums, will get discs with ABS in 2019

Yes, you are right. But two discs are not necessary, as ABS on the front wheel alone can meet the regulation. So I guess the Bullet 350 Standard will probably be upgraded with a front disc brake and a single channel ABS, to keep costs in check. For reference, the Pulsar RS200 comes with a similar set-up (although it has discs in the front and back, ABS is present only in the front).

@Sutripta

CBS is a cheaper solution provided for smaller vehicles as they come with drum brakes, and upgrading the front brakes to disc and adding an ABS will increase the manufacturing cost by a big margin.

If you see the limitation given in the regulation for vehicles not needing ABS (and can do with CBS alone), it is not only engine size (<= 125 cc), but also maximum output (<= 11 kW) and power to weight ratio (< = 0.1 kW / kg). This kind of makes sure that the 'faster' and hence more 'potentially dangerous' machines are excluded from this list.

Adding a CBS system is much simpler and cheaper (it is a mechanical linkage based system) than adding ABS. But it still provides a much more stable braking (my experience riding FIL's Aviator) behaviour than when only a single wheel is braked.

Also, in very light motorcycles, if we add a front disc brake and provide ABS, it is difficult to control the rear lift-off. A CBS with drum brake might be a better solution in this case, especially for relatively inexperienced riders.

CBS + ABS is an expensive solution, and not really possible to implement in machines costing less than < 1 lac INR (my feeling with what I know, please don't ask me to quote prices here).