[srh]

Another shameful incident related to the Indian auto industry. Manufacturers, especially those tom-tomming vehicle weight reduction & mileage seem to be too focused on 'fit & finish' and 'aesthetics' to bother about real quality beneath the skin.

I hope that the Indian & European manufacturers are not going the same way to compete

[Tushar]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Amazing how all 3 posts here talk about "Expectations"



Why should it be expected that the European model will have a more durable body structure? Are we saying that an Indian or latin american life is less valuable than an european life?

The reason the term "expected" has been used in because of the regulations in place. In Europe, a car that cannot protect its occupants well enough will never be allowed to go on sale in the first place. Government regulation ensures that manufacturers cannot offer unsafe products and subsequently buyers have no option, but to buy safe cars.

This has to do with mandated life saving innovations and has nothing to do with the nationalities they save.

[i74js]

A known fact, reiterated to known audiences be it the manufacturer or the consumer. Even in this forum, where we either know the meaning of safety or atleast have read about it ample number of times would still go for mid variants, or the ones with music system instead of ABS should not even talk about such results.

Government and Industry body - they are busy collecting taxes and lobbying against safety for the buyers.

There is no respite from such situation wherein we are waiting for 2019 because our government wants to reinvent the wheel and till then let the manufacturers make money.

This is not a sane state of affairs for mass market products, which are compromised at safety every single time while companies make false promises of their product quality.

Too bad Hyundai !

[mi2n]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

The variant tested was without airbags. That's a default 0 rating.

I wonder why they even bother with further tests. Any car sold in the indian /international markets without dual airbags is at rating zero.

Sir, I guess the main issue here is that of changes or rather compromises on structural integrity. If we peruse the crash test videos, we notice how the pillars easily deform and crumple is some Maruti and Datsun cars vis-a-vis that of say the VW Polo or the Figo. A minute inspection also reveals how the dashboard (console cowl) of the swift entirely comes apart and hits the driver, then, the steering wheel of the Alto 800, if I recall correctly, gets completely detached and flies into the driver's upper body. So, while cars sans active safety features scores the default 0 rating, the further tests do reveal that in some models, even the airbags would have made no difference given than the entire structure is unstable and ill-fitted. For me, that is the real eye-opener. I get to know which manufacturers really value the Indian people and whom we can trust with our lives.

In the NCAP Youtube channel, one viewer asked the NCAP why they test the base variants?
"Because we want all cars to adhere to minimum safety standards" came the answer from the NCAP representative.

[vinit.merchant]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

I wonder why they even bother with further tests.

I wonder how the test happen. I highly doubt that the manufacturer volunteers its spineless cars without ABS & Airbags. Are they mandated to get them tested? If not, then how?

[Doge]

Just look at how that chassis flexed,even with airbags I think that this will get a max of 2 stars. Absolutely appalling, I really don't know why these Asians are doing business, perhaps because pure keyless entry is such a happening thing.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by vinit.merchant

I wonder how the test happen. I highly doubt that the manufacturer volunteers its spineless cars without ABS & Airbags. Are they mandated to get them tested? If not, then how?

It is the lowest variant of a car that gets tested. That's the reason why Toyota and VW made airbags as standard when NCAP started targeting Indian cars.

Originally Posted by mi2n

Sir, I guess the main issue here is that of changes or rather compromises on structural integrity. If we peruse the crash test videos, we notice how the pillars easily deform and crumple is some Maruti and Datsun cars vis-a-vis that of say the VW Polo or the Figo. A minute inspection also reveals how the dashboard (console cowl) of the swift entirely comes apart and hits the driver, then, the steering wheel of the Alto 800, if I recall correctly, gets completely detached and flies into the driver's upper body. So, while cars sans active safety features scores the default 0 rating, the further tests do reveal that in some models, even the airbags would have made no difference given than the entire structure is unstable and ill-fitted. For me, that is the real eye-opener. I get to know which manufacturers really value the Indian people and whom we can trust with our lives.

In the NCAP Youtube channel, one viewer asked the NCAP why they test the base variants?
"Because we want all cars to adhere to minimum safety standards" came the answer from the NCAP representative.

I absolutely agree. It is the bigger picture we have to analyse. In fact, here is an old thread I had created in this regard-

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...r-picture.html

These star ratings cant just be taken by their numbers. A "zero" rating comes as a shock to many and invites lot of comments and criticism, but that figure only implies there were no airbags. What we actually need to do is analyse more on the specifics.

Originally Posted by Doge

Just look at how that chassis flexed,even with airbags I think that this will get a max of 2 stars. Absolutely appalling, I really don't know why these Asians are doing business, perhaps because pure keyless entry is such a happening thing.

It's not just the Asian companies that take this route. For example, an earlier report suggested that the Ecosport required more than 200 changes compared to the Indian version so that it can pass European safety norms. I doubt Chevrolet with its Chinese products can fare any better either.

Unless Indian laws make crash tests mandatory, I doubt things will improve.

As per the current scenario- one can only purchase the car with the best build and maximum safety feature and "hope" there are no structural compromises.

[hothatchaway]

Originally Posted by i74js

Even in this forum, where we either know the meaning of safety or atleast have read about it ample number of times would still go for mid variants, or the ones with music system instead of ABS should not even talk about such results.
!

Most makes in India market their variants such that ABS as an offering, occupies a higher rung in the pecking order for features and one gets ICE etc in lower priced variants with ABS coming only in the higher priced variants. VW, Toyota and now the Figo Aspire has made airbags standard but if you want ABS as well, you will have to shop at the upper reaches of their variant mix. It seems that at least in India, ones life is always a compromise!

For Fiat and Maruti (Swift and Punto atleast), nothing less than the top variant gets you airbags and ABS. I wonder how big a factor cost plays in offering a bare bones entry level variant with airbags and ABS mandatory and every other feature like ICE, ACC et al being added in the successive variants or as option packs.

Consumers too need to share a portion of the blame: many prospective buyers would baulk at an entry level variant with no frills but with ABS and airbags present. To people of such ilk, an electrically operated ORVM is more "VFM" than the safety features.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

All who are going ga-ga over Hyundai and other non-Indian makers for their "safety", "quality" and "build" - need to read this.

Remember Hyundai had to stop exporting the Elite i20 to Europe just because it was not meeting the European standards.

Does Hyundai's failure in this aspect make other Indian manufacturers (or Maruti to be precise) any better?

The two leading manufacturers in India are at fault when it comes to providing minimum safety standards to its customers. The Grand i10 was probably touted as the 'Made for India' model for this reason. And the situation is rather grim with more and more manufacturers following this path.

[Chillout]

I would blame Automobile manufacturers, Automobile associations, government and the public for the sorry state of affairs.

The first responsibility lies with the manufacturers for they should ensure safety for their customers. Unfortunately profit maximization is their only motto and hence safely and all takes back seat. Secondly the automobile governing body should have stepped in brought about regulations when you started improving the roads and made Airbags, ABS as mandatory.

Yes cost would have gone up but lives would have been saved.

Hyundai and other manufacturers are
to be equally blamed for the state of affairs and we the customers as well. We need to abstain from cars that don't have adequate safety standards. Kwid from Renault is also an example where Safety has taken back seat.

[keeprevving]

The structural integrity is a massive concern here. Be it Maruti or Hyundai, the sheet metal strength and structure is always a compromise. Its not just about providing ABS and Airbags. Occupants will get affected badly even if a Grand i10 has airbags. The structural strength is the biggest culprit.

[NaviRai12]

In our country, a lot of research and emphasis is put on increasing the fuel efficiency and the same will be highlighted across in all the commercials across various channels of communication. The leading auto mobile brands are investing a lot of time and effort in this area.

If only they invest half of that time, money and effort in R&D on improving the safety aspects and come up with safe cars (by safe I mean structurally strong and light as providing airbags standard in structurally weak cars is, as per me, equivalent to carry a pillow around in neck in non-airbag variants). But again, with the technologies that we have now, if we try to make car light, the structure is compromised or else it will be expensive.

PS: No offence to anyone, purely my views.

[NiInJa]

I always wonder why Indian government does not use these facilities available internationally and test all Indian cars there ? How much is the cost of sending an Indian car for Latin NCAP test ? Pretty less I guess.
To start with, we can atleast come with a rating that is mandatory to be printed on all advertisements and information brochures, just like we have for electrical appliances. This will have a psychological effect on buyers and manufacturers will start competing to have more ratings than others.

Coming to this car, I wasn't surprised about the stars it got, but what worried me is that its structure too is unstable. For all the 'premium' feel and asking price, Hyundai just gave us another tin can.

[lurker]

finally one needs to ask this question:

Does 'made.for India' for these foreign manufactueres mean making low rent models which compromise on safety because in their eyes

1. you will not go fast enough in this car for any serious mishap. If you do then it's your fault.
2. your (indian) lives are cheap so this is our compromise.

very troubling as to how the manufacturers perceive A/B segment buyers and how Govt of India bureaucrats and politicians have still not found it fit to intervene.

[JonSnow]

Originally Posted by hothatchaway

VW, Toyota and now the Figo Aspire has made airbags standard but if you want ABS as well, you will have to shop at the upper reaches of their variant mix. It seems that at least in India, ones life is always a compromise!

If I remember correctly, Toyota offered ABS on all diesel variants of Liva including the base one. In petrol models it was available from the mid variant. And there was some news that they will offer ABS as standard from maybe next year. Hope that Ford and VW also follow suit. I was hoping Ford would offer ABS on at least mid-variant on Aspire but that didn't happen.

Originally Posted by NaviRai12

But again, with the technologies that we have now, if we try to make car light, the structure is compromised or else it will be expensive.

Actually the Toyota Etios scored a 4-star in the Latin NCAP crash test and that is among the lightest cars in its segment. Shows that you don't necessarily have to compromise on structural strength to make a car light.