[swapnil.awate]

First of all IMHO 3 star ratings of Ford Figo Aspire is not bad, especially in this segment which is still budget cautious. Definitely it could have been better. We have been using zero star ratings cars in this segments as well. Its an improvement I'd say looking at the point from where we started and when we started. This is acknowledged by global NCAP as well. I don't think apart from VWs, Hondas and Toyotas any other manufacturer' car is scoring more than this in similarly priced cars.

I can't resist myself mentioning that I read this thread and February 2017 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis thread withing the span of last 30 mins. And the cars discussed in them are mutually exclusive, I mean, barring few cars the cars discussed in both the threads are different. I am sad with the scenario and don't know where are we heading. Probable reasons,
1. Lack of safety awareness on part of customers. Even learned people don't look at safety seriously. For entry level segment, price plays an important role.
2. For manufacturers its a business, still I'd say its lack of responsibility on their part.
3. Lack of regulations on part of authorities. I think ARAI is in process of imposing crash norms in 2018. It will be a welcome move.

As far as numerical value of star is concerned, I feel sometimes quantification is challenging and it will keep on evolving. I am happy that right now it is not like Duckworth-Lewis rule in cricket.

It would be interesting to know,
1. How many cars in India below Rs. 10 lakh price point have 3 or above 3 star rating?
2. Which is the cheapest safe car (Non-zero star rating) in India?

[deerhunter]

Originally Posted by swapnil.awate

First of all IMHO 3 star ratings of Ford Figo Aspire is not bad, especially in this segment which is still budget cautious.

3 stars is good, but what is worrying is that they just scraped through and got 3 stars, because the whole body shell is unstable.

Originally Posted by swapnil.awate

It would be interesting to know,
1. How many cars in India below Rs. 10 lakh price point have 3 or above 3 star rating?
2. Which is the cheapest safe car (Non-zero star rating) in India?

1. There are a few like Etios Liva, Polo, Mobilio and Zest. If you can add their chassis derivatives, then it includes Etios, Brio, Amaze and Bolt. Not adding Vento, Rapid and B-RV because they are not really sub 10 lakhs. Like Figo, Zest's shell too was judged unstable even though it got 4 stars.

2. Kwid got 1 star.

[ayankm]

Originally Posted by swapnil.awate

Lack of safety awareness on part of customers. Even learned people don't look at safety seriously. For entry level segment, price plays an important role.

I would say lack of awareness is the primary reason and of course as you also mentioned, all the automobile companies are here to do business. And they do take advantage of this lack of awareness.

I have never seen any of my friends, relatives or colleagues discuss safety while buying a car, apart from the usual airbag (rarely though). Not even ABS or ESP. We give more importance to VFM aspects.

[carwatcher]

I also personally feel that there is a su-conscious factor which no one thinks or plans that he/she is going to badly crash it, almost everyone thinks that they will use the car in one piece till the day they decide to upgrade.

Originally Posted by ayankm

I would say lack of awareness is the primary reason and of course as you also mentioned, all the automobile companies are here to do business. And they do take advantage of this lack of awareness.

I have never seen any of my friends, relatives or colleagues discuss safety while buying a car, apart from the usual airbag (rarely though). Not even ABS or ESP. We give more importance to VFM aspects.

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by bhpfaninblr

1900 CR investment is significant and does imply seriouness on safety. From your own #s below, they are spending almost 42% of their net profit for the test facility. Non-seriousness about safety would not have resulted in such a huge amount of investment. Let us give it to them for making substantial investments in safety

You've probably only read half my post, which is why you still dont understand why most people think that MSIL is not serious about automotive safety. The top brass at MSIL have been instrumental in lobbying for lax or no safety norms in India. This is the reason why the Crash testing norms are not already enforced in India, while it is prevalent in many 3rd world countries.

[DragonHawk]

Having weak body structure clearly shows Ford deliberately skipped this and instead added 6 airbags as a marketing ploy. Since having side and curtain airbags brings its own advantage as segment first, Ford thought that this will win over safety conscious customers. However being a customer I would prefer to have stable body shell with airbags than a weak shell with airbags.

[racer_ash]

Originally Posted by deerhunter

Found this comparison of various NCAPs. This is from 2015, some test criteria might have changed.

That's quite an interesting comparo. Goes on to show how watered down even the ASEAN NCAP is in relation to the Euro NCAP. From the chart, it is pretty clear that the safety features sold in cars in the European Union are the best of all. Even American and Australian NCAPs are not at par. Kudos to the agencies that implemented them. So if we can conclude: European Lives>American/Canadian Lives>=Australian>ASEAN>Indian/Other 3rd world lives.

Does anyone know what the Bharat NCAP ratings are going to be based on? While I agree having a safety testing procedure is a good starting point, I would want it to be at par with the best rather than with the 'me-too' standards (ASEAN NCAP in this case).

[altius]

Is the a website/page that lists the NCAP crash test ratings for all Indian cars? It will be useful as a reference site when buying or recommending cars.
I also feel with more than 50% market share , more cars from the Maruti stable should be tested to really make a difference. If Maruti ups the game in safety, others have no choice but to follow.

[DragonHawk]

Originally Posted by altius

Is the a website/page that lists the NCAP crash test ratings for all Indian cars? It will be useful as a reference site when buying or recommending cars.

I could see the results of all the Indian made cars which are tested by NCAP in the below link. We can always download the full fact sheet of each model for reference and go ahead with our recommendations.

http://www.globalncap.org/results/

[RDS]

Originally Posted by DragonHawk

Having weak body structure clearly shows Ford deliberately skipped this and instead added 6 airbags as a marketing ploy. Since having side and curtain airbags brings its own advantage as segment first, Ford thought that this will win over safety conscious customers. However being a customer I would prefer to have stable body shell with airbags than a weak shell with airbags.

Please note that the Ford Aspire that was tested by NCAP was a Non-ABS Trend Model (No ABS EBD, 2 Airbags) and yet it scored 3 stars. You can download full fact sheet here - http://www.globalncap.org/results/

Practicality and a report on road accidents in India suggest that Ford Aspire's build quality is good. Here is a link showing Aspire crushed between two trucks - the rear one was not able to stop in time and yet all 5 on board survived - most probablyTitanium+ variant - https://www.thrustzone.com/ford-aspi...board-survive/

If a non-ABS EBD 2 Airbag trend model can get 3 stars in NCAP rating, I am pretty sure a 6 Airbag ABS EBD version would have gotten 5 stars.

Cheers!

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by RDS

...
...
If a non-ABS EBD 2 Airbag trend model can get 3 stars in NCAP rating, I am pretty sure a 6 Airbag ABS EBD version would have gotten 5 stars.

The Figo Aspire maybe a relatively safe car in its class, but have to disagree with what you've mentioned. Additional airbags or ABS is not going to change anything mentioned in the statement below (from the factsheet)

The bodyshell was rated as unstable and it was not capable of withstanding any further loadings.

[RDS]

Originally Posted by vb-san

The Figo Aspire maybe a relatively safe car in its class, but have to disagree with what you've mentioned. Additional airbags or ABS is not going to change anything mentioned in the statement below (from the factsheet)

I checked that part as well. Report also mentions what the statement exactly means. It means it might not be able to take further higher speed hits but then 64KM/hr and hitting the solid unbreakable wall while the body shell protects people inside is good for a car that has no ABS and only two Airbags. Number of Airbags and ABS-EBD invariably raises the ratings. If not 5, it will still at least be a 4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsVV4Fty7sc

Above is the link of the crash test. Just check the shell - it holds very well. Again, it is not perfect, but yes, in its class it is very good.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by RDS

Please note that the Ford Aspire that was tested by NCAP was a Non-ABS Trend Model (No ABS EBD, 2 Airbags) and yet it scored 3 stars. You can download full fact sheet here - http://www.globalncap.org/results/

If a non-ABS EBD 2 Airbag trend model can get 3 stars in NCAP rating, I am pretty sure a 6 Airbag ABS EBD version would have gotten 5 stars.

Cheers!

Originally Posted by vb-san

The Figo Aspire maybe a relatively safe car in its class, but have to disagree with what you've mentioned. Additional airbags or ABS is not going to change anything mentioned in the statement below (from the factsheet)

Originally Posted by RDS

Number of Airbags and ABS-EBD invariably raises the ratings. If not 5, it will still at least be a 4.[/url]

Above is the link of the crash test. Just check the shell - it holds very well. Again, it is not perfect, but yes, in its class it is very good.

I'm quite naive so this may be a laughable question. But in this kind of a test - how would ABS make any difference? The car is moved at a constant speed and banged against a wall. Whether ABS or no-ABS, the end result is going to be same isn't it? I don't think they apply brakes before hitting the wall. The test is about how the occupants were treated by the car when it hit something at a defined speed. Whether it was always driving at that speed or whether ABS aided brakes slowed it from a higher speed to the test speed, shouldn't matter right?

Basically 3 stars with 2 airbags is I think something that even a Vista/Zest achieved. So its just about average. Zest also feels very solid in daily use & in accidents also. But then to get 5 stars even with 2 airbags, the other car makers must be doing something else better in their design.

[RDS]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

I'm quite naive so this may be a laughable question. But in this kind of a test - how would ABS make any difference? The car is moved at a constant speed and banged against a wall. Whether ABS or no-ABS, the end result is going to be same isn't it?

Please check the link to understand more - https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-...safety-assist/

Safety is not only about what happens after accident but also about the overall safety features that prevent accidents as well. Hence the safety features attract good points.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by RDS

Please check the link to understand more - https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-...safety-assist/

Safety is not only about what happens after accident but also about the overall safety features that prevent accidents as well. Hence the safety features attract good points.

That I understand already. I'm talking about the fate of the occupants. The car may get 10 stars. I don't mind. The damages noted on the crash dummy in the car that hits the wall in the NCAP test are not going to change when the car has ABS.

Just trying to point out that the tests are not a full representation in any way. (To be honest, I'm not really a believer in those at all.)