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Old 28th September 2018, 20:23   #16
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Default re: Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
The Renault Lodgy without airbags in its standard version achieved zero stars for Adult Occupant Protection and two stars for Child Occupant Protection.
Shocking to say the least. Had it been a small, built to cost hatchback like Kwid, it was understandable, but still not acceptable. But with a people mover, costing north of a million Rupees, this is simply day light robbery. How on earth were Renault thinking of managing to get away with such a shoddy build? Lack of features in the variant tested is ok but the bodyshell itself being termed unstable is alarming. While I didn't have high regards for Renault as a brand, this test result has definitely made the brand do a freefall.
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Old 29th September 2018, 13:55   #17
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Default re: Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests

I read that the "The bodyshell was rated as unstable and it was not capable of withstanding further loadings."
I'm confused. Our authority ARAI; is it only for testing the fuel efficiency or is it also required that the safety criteria also be verified?

On a note from an overall perspective: Aren't cars that are made for India tested by any authority in India and then approved as fit to be used? If yes, are our standards that low that we approve MPVs with unstable bodies to be sold?

I'd say any vehicle that a manufacturer is selling should have a minimum criteria that it should ensure the safety of the occupants. After all we're buying a vehicle to travel from point A to B safely. It's not that we're just paying for a chrome badge of the manufacturer and the engine. Safety matters too!

Last edited by rav11stars : 29th September 2018 at 14:00. Reason: more rants :)
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Old 29th September 2018, 14:54   #18
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Default re: Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests

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Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
I'm saving Renault's reply.
Maruti - the overwhelming market leader - isn't sitting on its laurels, but is proactively putting out BNVSAP-compliant models. They could easily coast on their brand name and non-tier 1 sales, but they chose not to. And in contrast, a manufacturer who's struggling to get a toehold in the market isn't using the opportunity to win hearts with better engineered cars.
This is a case where Maruti is doing us a favour by making incremental improvements to the tinny cars they make, but dare not any other struggling carmaker take a similar approach.
Maruti and Hyundai cars haven't fared very well when compared variantwise for safety but it will always be a fringe player like Renault or a Datsun whose name will appear in these negative reports. The stripped down variant of the Lodgy is bound to have poor safety features.
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Old 29th September 2018, 15:02   #19
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Default re: Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests

The test seems to be very academic, why does Global NCAP test cars like Mobilio or Lodgy at all? There are so many mass market cars that do > 5000 pieces a month, whose test are worth something to a prospective buyer.

And yet they seem to have a knack to pick out cars that are sales duds or those the manufacturer would have already decided to bury and move on

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Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
This is shocking since Renault portray themselves making the safest cars in Europe!
Captur is the only real Renault I see on sale. Lodgy, Logan are all Dacia aren't they? Renault wouldn't dare sell the Kwid in Europe.
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Old 29th September 2018, 15:36   #20
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Default re: Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Any car with no airbags are normally bound to get the Zero rating.
I think what the OP wanted to ask was that if the mere addition of 2 air bags can influence the ratings to such degree that a 0 star rating can become a four star rating.
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Old 29th September 2018, 18:37   #21
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Default re: Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests

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Originally Posted by carmayogi View Post
In summary - sad that money is the only deciding factor. Money motivations may get you instant joy but it will destroy the brand over time.
Well, they are not making any money either - at least in India.

When the profit made out of each car is less, you would want to better the product to increase the profit and not reducing the quality. If Renault wants to know how to do that, they can call TATA.
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Old 29th September 2018, 22:11   #22
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Default re: Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests

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Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
Wow. Reading this, on the same day I see the Brezza scoring 4 stars, I can only shake my head in awe at the audacity and arrogance of the author of this asinine answer (sorry, got a little carried away with the alliteration).
but I think you forgot to mention this part of the (Renault) statement "The tests by Global NCAP are conducted at speeds that are higher than those prescribed by the regulatory authorities, not only in India but also in developed markets."

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Originally Posted by narayans80 View Post
The test seems to be very academic, why does Global NCAP test cars like Mobilio or Lodgy at all? There are so many mass market cars that do > 5000 pieces a month, whose test are worth something to a prospective buyer.
They did tests on Brezza and Nexon, two cars that are selling very well. Both cars proved their mettle too, with four stars.
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Old 29th September 2018, 23:42   #23
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Default re: Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests

We have known the Kwid to get four stars for the export model exported to Brazil and a few other countries. The Kwid sold here has scored zero. And the Lodgy scoring a zero has such a clarification from the company spokesperson. I believe the spokesperson will excel as a political leader of a national political party. He or she should change his profession for a more rewarding career :

Quote:
The NCAP test report and the "politician spokesperson's" clarification :
"The zero star result was partly due to the lack of airbags which caused the head and chest to impact the steering wheel. The car also showed an unstable structure during the crash with deformations even in the rear door and a rupture in the footwell area during the crash," the report notes.

The Lodgy was given two stars for child occupant protection, and Global NCAP's report explains the lack of Isofix child seat anchorages could prove to be dangerous in the event of a crash.

"The lack of Isofix anchorages meant that the child seats needed to be installed with adult seatbelts, that could not prevent excessive forward excursion of the 3-year old dummy which impacted its head on the driver seat backrest," states the report.

Commenting on the Lodgy's performance, David Ward, Secretary General, Global NCAP, said "The zero-star Renault Lodgy is extremely disappointing. Global NCAP had hoped that Renault had learned from the difficult experience they had with the Kwid. It’s time now for Renault to make front airbags standard across their entire Indian product range."

In response to the test results, Renault India said that its products meet the norms prescribed by Automotive Research Association of India (ARAI), which is the current norm in India, "Our products are ARAI certified, which is the current mandate in India."

It also said that Global NCAP's tests are conducted at speeds higher than those prescribed by regulatory authorities in India and in developed markets. "The results of Global NCAP have to be seen in that perspective," according to a company statement. "As India is gradually moving towards international safety and emission norms by including more robust regulations, Renault will be ready for the upcoming safety regulations and BS-VI norms." it added.

It's worth noting that only the top-spec Lodgy, the RxZ, gets an airbag for the driver and co-passenger. The base Standard (Rs 8.33 lakh) and RxE (Rs 9.34 lakh) variants get no airbags. In the past, Global NCAP has also tested the Kwid four times and Duster, two times. The hatchback received a zero-star rating three times for the base variant, and a one-star rating for the variant with a driver airbag.
What the hell is the definition of safety for our car makers ? We need to fully blame our Road, Transport and Highways Ministry for sleeping over the NCAP safety rating issue, since nearly a decade allowing these "fly by night" car makers or money makers, deliver substandard products to injure or kill the customers. We have lost thousands of precious lives due to unsafe cars , when the developed world already woke up and enumerated the mandatory standards of safety for their automobiles, in keeping with the contemporary global best practices . We are now due to implement the NCAP star ratings wef Oct 2019 for all new car models and from Oct 2020 for existing models to upgrade.

Hence, with such loopholes the carmakers have found a treasure trove of money and a haven to sell unsafe cars and injure or kill customers, by manufacturing such cars. The irony is that the very same assembly line makes cars with four star ratings for export.

Luckily the Renault Lodgy is a LEMON and does not sell over 100 units per month. During August 2018, it sold 54 units only. Renault's overall market share during August 2018 was 2.32 % that includes all its car models [total car sales 6557 units, down from 9585 units sold in August 2017(teambhp figures)] - they have built a poor brand image that is likely to go down further unless they correct themselves, which we believe they never will going by past precedents. Renault's sales figures' break up modelwise for August 2018 is :

Captur 349
Duster 613 (its used to sell 3000- 4000 units every month about four to five years back)
Kwid 5541
Lodgy 54

The model range at the same time is becoming staid and dated. The Kwid appears to be their bread and butter model. But for how long with the zero star (one star with a single airbag) rating ? Ignorant customers are the ones who are most gullible.

The major fault can be traced to the decision making process of the Road, Transport and Highways Ministry. The car maker is abiding by extant laws and as the "politician of a spokesperson" says, their cars comply with ARAI norms. And their grouse is that the NCAP tests' the cars at higher speeds compared to that to be soon prescribed by the Govt of India. There is again a big LOW SPEED loophole (lower speeds than usually prescribed and tested by NCAP globally) that carmakers are bound to exploit come 2019/2020. Renault is not proactive like many others, who instantly decided to upgrade their car's safety ratings.

We can only hope that our bureaucrats and politicians will involve technical experts in decision making and desist from making such major follies, which is injuring or killing car occupants ? Or else, doom days are ahead with many more such follies likely to be committed !

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 30th September 2018 at 00:04.
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Old 30th September 2018, 10:05   #24
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Default Re: Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests

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Originally Posted by rav11stars View Post
Our authority ARAI; is it only for testing the fuel efficiency or is it also required that the safety criteria also be verified?
ARAI crash tests are like this. I will only trust the NCAP, even when Indian crash-testing becomes compulsory for cars sold here:
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Old 30th September 2018, 11:37   #25
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Default Re: Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests

It is a hard fact of life that companies will always seek to maximize profit. Even if one company decides to do the 'right' thing, it will find it impossible to compete with other corner cutting companies, who will offer their product at lesser prices/more 'visible' features etc.
The average customer will usually compare a barebones but safe car with a similar priced car that's packed with feel good features but is less safe, and choose the feature packed car because it gives him more 'value'. It's much easier to sell a visible, glitzy feature (sunroof, DRLs, touchscreen etc) compared to the concept of safety. After all when you sit in unsafe car A and then in safe car B (at the same price point), it is impossible to actually know which car will perform better in a crash.
A case in point is the Yaris. It addresses the safety angle very well by making seven airbags standard across the range, but potential customers do not seem to want to give any premium whatsoever to this aspect.
Since companies will aim at the lowest (legally allowed) bar possible, it is the responsibility of the regulator to grab that bar and raise it and say "this is the new normal, now jump!".
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Old 30th September 2018, 13:38   #26
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Default Re: Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
ARAI crash tests are like this. I will only trust the NCAP, even when Indian crash-testing becomes compulsory for cars sold here:
That pretty much sums it.
Wasn’t Renault in the news in the not too distant past for providing smaller airbags on Dusters sold here? Not surprising therefore.

Last edited by ajmat : 30th September 2018 at 19:32. Reason: fixing quote
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Old 1st October 2018, 11:39   #27
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Default Re: Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests

I took it up with Renault and Datsun India on twitter. Unsurprisingly, Datsun did not even bother to respond. Renault responded but with the same excuse as seen below. Customer centric it seems!

I will not let go of this. To some, my tweet might seem like like an overkill but these are real lives that they are toying with. I mean, it's not a 1 lakh rupees car that is safer than bikes. It's an MPV from a global manufacturer who know how to make safe cars but choose to make them unsafe since they are not obligated to care and helps cut costs for them. Every manufacturer does this but they all have taken real strides at changing that. Except this terrible terrible group.

Shame on them. We should make sure we let their senior management know that we aren't that naive and that this excuse of a statement won't cut it with us.

Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests-capture.png
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Old 3rd October 2018, 18:13   #28
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Default Re: Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests

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Originally Posted by aaychat View Post
I took it up with Renault and Datsun India on twitter. Unsurprisingly, Datsun did not even bother to respond. Renault responded but with the same excuse as seen below. Customer centric it seems!

I will not let go of this. To some, my tweet might seem like like an overkill but these are real lives that they are toying with.
Your tweets are not even slightly overkill. I beg all Team-bhp members to join in this thread and bombard Renault with logical criticism (no abuse). At worst, we can irritate them. At best, who knows?
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Old 3rd October 2018, 19:47   #29
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Default Re: Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests

I lost whatever little respect I had for Renault as a manufacturer when they cheated on the Kwid NCAP test even after being given multiple shots at it, and we then found out about the whole small airbags fiasco.

I'm not saying other manufacturers are saints, far from it, but Renault in India are scraping the absolute bottom of the barrel. I wouldn't drive an Indian Renault car (ironically, none of them really are Renault cars) if one was handed to me for free.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 20:46   #30
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Default Re: Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests

Renault India is not at all willing to accept it's mistake at any point of time. I had asked them why they were giving smaller airbags in Duster and their reply was pathetic to say the least.

Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests-screenshot_20181003202954__01.jpg
My reply to Renault.

Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests-screenshot_20181003203038__01.jpg

Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests-screenshot_20181003203053__01.jpg

Renault Lodgy scores a zero in the Global NCAP tests-screenshot_20181003203100__01.jpg
Replies of Renault.

Link to Tweet-
https://twitter.com/funnyfinha/statu...011472385?s=19
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