[alpha1]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

Better roads will ensure at least some lives are saved compared to now.

Inaction because the number can't be brought to 0 would be really criminal. (And we have been living in this criminal environment for decades now sadly.)

Agreed in general, however for this particular case with a car racing at almost half of an aircraft's take off speed, I am pretty confident no amount of sane design would've saved (unless we have tubes instead of flyovers)

In fact, vigsom suggestion make apt sense for undisciplined public of India:

"The simplest solution to design flyovers for morons is to make the ride rough so that the speed doesn't cross, say, 50kmph in any case"

[rajendra2278]

Originally Posted by keith2524

Another interesting read quoting various user experiences.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities...le30079882.ece

Before commenting on the flyover design, people should understand that it is a city flyover, not a race track. I'm not saying that the design is perfect, but, all people expect it to be perfect, like a race track, which is never going to happen.

One person said that (in that link), of all the flyovers in Hyd, this is is worst. Well, all the other flyovers are straight, or, with very little curve. So, even though there are design faults with those, they will not come into picture. But, this particular flyover has a sharp right turn, because it is intended for that direction.

I'm surprised that the discussion is still going on (and on) about the design fault of the flyover.

To give another flyover with design fault in Hyd, I would mention Tolichowki flyover.

While coming from Mehdipatnam side, just before the flyover, on the right most lane, beside the median, there is an awkward curve (of the median). It's like, the width of the right most lane decreases a bit and then increases. I'm not sure anyone has noticed it.

Even though that flyovers' design is not perfect, it didn't come into picture because no major accident happened there.

Why everyone is expecting perfect flyover designs all of a sudden (I also would love to have such perfectly designed flyovers), even though they know that it's not going to happen (unless someone at the extreme top level cares about such things)?

Most of them must have seen that the prestigious expressway which came up near our national capital city itself is having serious flaws (someone mentioned in TBHP itself about the improper joining ramps (no extra lane for joining highway, and also, they join at almost 45%).

Well, I end my discussion regarding the road/flyover designs here.

One last point that I would like to mention is, most of the highways (and upcoming highways) in INDIA are designed properly. Issue is with city roads/flyovers. Since city roads/flyovers are mainly meant for study/work commute, we should not rant about them, but, rather drive accordingly.

[jaaz]

Agree with you!

What about up & down ramps, they are mostly circular. It's not a Flyover in true sense, but a Grade separator. Can't blame the design.

And the Car involved is a GTI, so it took off like a Super Car.

[Brishti]

In the mess of things it seems lost that the car did its job of saving the guy well. Had it been anything from Maruti or any other tin can makers things would have turned out very differently.

So kudos to the car, that guy does not deserve the said car and overall the fault is driving a GTI like a Polo Cup car on roads made for a Polo 1L Petrol.

[risga]

Originally Posted by alpha1

I really cannot over emphasize that it is idiots like this driver who cause hazard to everyone's lives on the road. Thoroughly incompetent but (rather I should say, hence) overconfident.

My question to all who are talking about improving road/banking/traction/speed boards etc: each improvement in design will allow for higher speed limit; what makes you think that another moron will adhere to this higher speed limit and not crash his vehicle?

And who can stop some-one from demanding such high performance vehicles should not be built or sold in India.

Ideally the driving license process needs to be made more stringent so that idiots without proper driving skills don't endanger their own and other people's lives.

[Thad E Ginathom]

The Polo GTi was a rather odd marketing stunt. IIRC, only 100 vehicles were imported.

Whereas it is outside my affordable possibilities, in so far as it is a performance car, it is relatively low-cost one. Excepting the low numbers/availability, it seemed to put this level of performance in the hands of those who might not have been able to afford it (I don't know: how did Fiat's sporty offering compare?). I did spend a moment of concern about the results of this potentially only-a-bit-rich-kid's toy. I guess it is a relief that there have not been more incidents.

[sharc_biker]

Ghastly accident for which innocent people paid the price. IMHO, the flyover could have been designed better.

Given how the road begins to decline right after the turn, the road surface becomes a little off camber for vehicles. I know the speed limit is very low to introduce high positive camber. But a mild super elevation makes a huge difference in grip levels.

As others have pointed out, a better designed inward facing roadside crash barrier atleast at the outer edges of such curves will definitely make it safer.

Lastly, High Friction Surfacing of roads for a few metres at the entry of such corners will contribute towards better braking if concrete roads cannot be avoided.


Also in this screen grab from one of the CCTV videos, this lucky woman seems to blissfully unaware of how she narrowly escaped from a heavy metal signboard falling on top of her head from 50+ feet.

[motorotor]

I think this problem is a double-edged (or triple edged) sword. On one side we have the cars and bikes that are capable of going much faster than warranted on our roads. On the other side, we have an MVD that is so far behind times that sometimes it's scary the laxity with which licenses are being given out. To add to this already contradictory situation we also have road planning that is unscientific, to say the least. Throw in each of these potent ingredients and I think we should be surprised that more accidents like the above don't happen!

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by motorotor

we have the cars and bikes that are capable of going much faster than warranted on our roads.

That's actually... all of them! Most cars of the last decade or three (or more?) have had rated top speeds of around 100MPH, 160kph. Even the small ones. And most drivers don't even know stopping distances at ordinary city-street speeds.

[shankar.balan]

We see plenty of these things on our daily commutes. Mad driving. Squeezing into small gaps. Absolute lack of lane discipline. Lane cutting and choking off other traffic in a bid to get there first. And with all this high level of frustration, the moment there appears a clear stretch, the immediate urge is to gun the motor and streak away. This lunacy applies to motorcycles, autos, private cars, taxis, buses, delivery trucks and pretty much everyone on the road!

We can lament all we want in fora such as this, about the general lack of discipline, care and supervision, rules enforcement and the fact that this is an uniquely “indian’ problem.

The truth is, that we Indians are a fiercely individualistic race of people, with a very strong and incorrect sense of ‘entitlement’ which in turn is born of the massive inequality between those who flout the laws of the land and those who are employed by the state and paid a pittance to enforce the said laws. Compounded by the endorsement of the parents and society, there is an endless chain reaction in place, of disrespect and disregard for the laws of the land and those who try to enforce it.

And this trend is only increasing, across the whole country.
All that one has to do is look around any of our cities. I see it daily on the little streets in the neighbourhood as well. Where once, it was peaceful, today it is like taking a walk along a rally track. Absolutely no chance of survival for any walker, or elderly person, or dog or child, if any of the idiots driving their cars or bikes, loses control for an instant.

A police officer told me recently, that there are all of 18000-20000 police personnel in the city of Bangalore, to supervise and watch a population of 15 Million people including the elusive, uncountable, floating population as well.

The efficiency calculation math is a no brainer.

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

The truth is, that we Indians are a fiercely individualistic race of people, with a very strong and incorrect sense of ‘entitlement’ which in turn is born of the massive inequality between those who flout the laws of the land and those who are employed by the state and paid a pittance to enforce the said laws. Compounded by the endorsement of the parents and society, there is an endless chain reaction in place, of disrespect and disregard for the laws of the land and those who try to enforce it.

I am familiar with a few towns and cities in Mexico. The density of people, number of cops, number of vehicles, size of streets, (including street dogs) appear to be similar to the conditions in India. The difference is that I never see people jump stoplights, ride on side walks, overspeed, or honk incessantly. Even the cabbies do not over speed, and the bus drivers pull over to the extreme to pick up passengers.

I am always shocked at their disipline with so few cops on patrol. Even the people from Tijuana seem relaxed while they are stuck in the line to cross the border for hours. No idea what this society did, but it would be awesome if we somehow get to inherit some of these habits from Mexicans.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

I am familiar with a few towns and cities in Mexico. how get to inherit some of these habits from Mexicans.

I have a very old theory which I ve put out before and will do now again.

Many of the places we tend to compare India to, are places where there is some level of “homogeneity” in terms of ethnic similarity”. This tends to help the cause of overall discipline.

Mexico, much of Lat-Am, the Philippines, Indonesia, HongKong, Vietnam, other bits of South East Asia, the more organised bits of Africa, etc.

India is subdivided internally on extremely parochial lines, into “state-identity”, schisms, communal divides, community, caste and similar and this tends to cause chaos when it comes to discipline.

Our law enforcement officers of today have no teeth, because the politicians and legislator types have effectively pulled out all their teeth. This was not the case even 20 years ago in the early 2000’s.

Then of course there is the issue of serious population explosion and severe over-crowding all of which has actually taken place right in front of our eyes in these last 15-20 years. This obviously will also contribute to the overall fallout.

The number of actual proper cities which actually have the required facilities and infrastructure and connectivity etc, are still very few - mostly restricted to just the 6 big cities in India. This compounds the issue further.

But enough of all this academic debate.

What I will do, is to BE the change. Even in the face of all odds, I will try and follow the rules.

I think we as responsible people, can take our own internal pledges and resolve to do the right thing, irrespective.

May be it is a drop in the ocean, but we have to make a start somewhere.

[CarNerd]

Originally Posted by rajendra2278

I disagree. Since there is a park there, u might be saying that the flyover could've been built over it. What if there is some building in place of the park. Then, obviously, that option will not be there.
In Internet, everyone is bashing the design of the flyover. I'm not an expert, but, there is right turn at the junction. How can the curve be avoided there?

I know that some curves can't be avoided but in this particular flyover, the curve could have been avoided in my opinion. I too am not an expert but if there is some design which could have been better, what's wrong in pointing it out? In any case I started my quote by blaming the driver.
Drivers can be blamed, Roads can be blamed, Rules can also be blamed. Don't you think?

[Nalin1]

I don't know if this link has been posted earlier-

https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities...le30079882.ece

There definitely seems to be something wrong with the design of the flyover, that is the very steep curve where the Polo crashed.

[rajendra2278]

Originally Posted by CarNerd

Drivers can be blamed, Roads can be blamed, Rules can also be blamed. Don't you think?

Absolutely, we can blame anything. But, roads are rules are not in our (individual) hands, while driving is. Just my 2 cents!
Don't want to start an argument here.