[Sanidhya mukund]

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...afer-cars.html (What can force our market to move towards safer cars?)

This thread by Senior BHPian Mr. Boss really got me thinking. It has been 6 years since global NCAP began Crash testing Indian cars, with their main goal being to eradicate cars that are so unsafe that they almost guarantee death or serious injury to the driver and the occupants. But the question is, what exactly has been achieved? What exactly changed after global NCAP showed us how car manufacturers treat us? Have indian cars become safer?

Of course, the government has now made various safety features mandatory. It is also widely believed that there is now some form of crash testing being conducted, with a certain minimum standard that a car has to meet in order to be sold in the country.
But what does this amount to in real life? There are still cars that have scored a big fat zero, and yet can be sold legally. So what exactly has changed in these 6 years?
If we ignore star ratings for a moment and observe how Indian cars have evolved, we would be able to see that the most striking change is that the passenger cabin no longer collapses like it used to. The A-pillars no longer bend like plastic toys.
Also, head and neck protection have seen a marked improvement, most probably due to airbags being made standard, even on base variants.
While these changes are more than welcome, car safety still has a very long way to go. The below comparisons do look encouraging, but the level of safety that has to be achieved is still a long way ahead.

All photos are screenshots from the official website of Global NCAP.



In the first comparison, I am not looking at the evolution of any manufacturer in particular. Instead, I am looking at how the cheapest car in India has evolved. Back in 2014, the Nano was the cheapest car one could buy in India. Just look at the Amount of red the Driver dummy has! It is almost certain that the driver is going to perish.
Today, the cheapest car in the country is the Datsun Redi-Go. This car also has a poor safety rating of only 1 star. But just look at what airbags can do! With adequate neck protection and good head protection, the driver is far more likely to survive, atleast at city speeds.



Up next, is "Dil se strong" Maruti. The S-presso is the cheapest new Maruti to be tested and hence, is the one I am comparing to the 2014 Alto. Also, in today's market, Alto and S-presso are priced nearly the same, so I think it is a good way to compare Maruti's safety evolution. The first thing that strikes you is the A-pillar and the passenger cabin. While the passenger cabin on the Alto folds up like tin foil, the S-presso does not even suffer a broken Windshield. Here also, the effect of Airbags can be observed. Both these cars have scored a zero, but one can clearly see how much safer the S-presso could be in a real world crash.



In 2014, the Grand i10 had already been released, but Hyundai was still selling the outgoing i10. In 2020, the new Santro is positioned similarly. In terms of actual safety, the only major change observable is the Benefit of the standard airbag. Apart from that, there are minor improvements in terms of footwell intrusion. The fact that the Airbag now saves the driver's head and neck has improved the rating from 0 to 2 stars.



The first Tata too be tested after the Nanos catastrophic failure was the base variant of the Zest. It scored a zero because of the fact that it lacked airbags. It also had an unstable body shell and footwell area, causing the driver's feet to get seriously injured. Tata promptly improved the Zests body structure and sent the Top spec with airbags for crash testing, which scored 4 stars. After this point, Tata decided to make safety their USP and as a result,
In 2020 they are the only manufacturer that can claim that all their cars are safe.



In 2016, the new generation Scorpio, with its "much stronger" hydroformed chassis was not able to score even a single star in the NCAP crash test. The body shell got opened up like a can of tuna. The dummy readings for the driver implied death or serious injuries. In this car, even airbags wouldn't have been able to help much. This was probably the most shocking result on any Indian car, because people expected a lot more from the "mighty muscular".
But things seems to have changed for the better at Mahindra. The latest Thar is a testimony to the fact that a body on frame construction can also be safe. Also, the other two modern Mahindra products that have been tested- the Marrazzo and the XUV300 have both scored well.



The Swift is the most interesting example, because it is the only car for which we have a model to model comparison. The older Swift did not have Airbags on the base variant. One can also clearly see how the A-pillars folded upwards and the roof got lifted up. On the new Swift, you can clearly see the impact of Airbags. The structure also seems to have improved quite a bit, implied by the much lesser amount of footwell intrusion and fewer red spots on the dummy readings.

To summarise, the major changes that have occurred are as follows:

1. Important safety features such as Airbags and ABS that help tremendously in cutting down the risk of death or serious injuries have now been made standard, even on the cheapest of cars. This has been due to legislation, not because manufacturers wanted to give us safer cars.

2. Cars have evidently become structurally safer. The extent of cabin intrusion and A-pillar deformation has reduced quite a bit.

So in conclusion, has the 'Safer Cars for India' mission been successful?

Yes, it has not only caused a large section of the car buying public to become aware about occupant safety in cars, but has also nudged the government to implement rules and regulations to make our cars safer.
This has also caused some manufacturers like Tata and Mahindra to actually make cars that not only meet the indian regulations, but also meet the standards of Global NCAP.
These are steps in the right direction, and I am sure in the foreseeable future, we will get to see many more people demanding safer cars, and manufacturers having no choice but to make their cars safer and send them for crash testing voluntarily. A day will come when Indians ask " kitna safe hai?" (How safe is it?) Rather than asking " kitna deti hai?" (How efficient is it?)

Another thing that I would like to add is that some manufacturers used to lament that adding safety features will make their cars much more expensive, and then people would not be able to upgrade to them from two wheelers. Here, I would like to take the example of two of Indias best selling cars- The Alto and the Swift. All the data is from Autocar India magazines, March 2014 issue and November 2020 issue.

1. ALTO 800 STD

Price in 2014- 2.84 lakh, On-road, Delhi
Price in 2020- 3.41 Lakhs, On-road, Delhi

Price increase- 57k, also including Marutis annual price increase, BS6 upgradation and Safety features.
Effect on sales- almost none.

2. Swift LXI

Price in 2014- 5.12 lakhs, On-road, Delhi
Price in 2020- 5.95 lakh, On-road, Delhi
Price increase- 83k, including Marutis annual price increase, a change in generation, BS6 and safety features.
Effect on sales- Actually increased as compared to 2014.

Thus, it can be seen that it's a lame argument that safety features make cars more expensive. Manufacturers would not stop looking for excuses to inflate their profits.

[swarnava.ch]

Nicely Summarized Sanidhya, you have highlighted the importance of the results of GNCAP on the Indian Manufacturers. I have been reading all the threads in the last few days since the time Scores were released and I see different and diverse point of views from members which is all good. The point is there should be debate on this, I am sure no one wants an unsafe car at the end. Also the use cases for the car is a major driving factor for purchase.
I hope and pray at the end that more Consumers start the conversation around safety and ask their SA's about ratings. Things will start changing in the end. Not immediately, but eventually for sure.

[AZT]

Originally Posted by Sanidhya mukund

In 2020 they are the only manufacturer that can claim that all their cars are safe.

The Harrier is yet to be tested. I'm curious to see how that fares, was surprised to see the Thar tested so early but the Harrier has not had it done yet.

[airbus]

Originally Posted by AZT

Thar tested so early but the Harrier has not had it done yet.

What Pawan Kumar Goenka told recently that now they have a benchmark for their engineers to achieve minimum 4 stars. He also mentioned that Mahindra engineers were initially apprehensive about securing 4 stars for Thar. Seems they really put a good effort in achieving that objective and the result is in front of us to see. Sending Thar for GNCAP test immediately after launch shows that they were fairly confident and now it will also help them in marketing.

[Sanidhya mukund]

Originally Posted by AZT

The Harrier is yet to be tested. I'm curious to see how that fares, was surprised to see the Thar tested so early but the Harrier has not had it done yet.

Thank you for pointing this out. Bhpian Ram87Pune had explained this on the harrier thread. Rather than being a problem with the cars body structure, the problem is actually due to the fiat sourced 2.0 Multijet diesel engine.
You can read about it in detail here:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...-review-7.html (2020 Tata Harrier Automatic : Official Review)


Also, I don't know how I forgot to include this one- The Renault Kwid.
The first iteration of the Renault Kwid was no less than a tragically unsafe death trap on wheels. When Global NCAP exposed the cars horrendous structural failure, Renault tried to make up for the damage by trying to improve the cars safety rating. After 4 attempts, they managed to improve the rating from 0 to 1, but were again caught trying to act smart. They had added the reinforcements only on the drivers side, just to get a better rating.
Still, the improvement in occupant protection that happened because of Global NCAP is commendable.

[AZT]

Originally Posted by Sanidhya mukund

Thank you for pointing this out. Bhpian Ram87Pune had explained this on the harrier thread:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...-review-7.html (2020 Tata Harrier Automatic : Official Review)

This was interesting to read. Though I still want to see it tested before calling it safe. Even with the current problem is it 4 Star, 3 Star ?

There's no point guessing and best to hold off on judgement till we know.

[Sanidhya mukund]

Originally Posted by AZT

This was interesting to read. Though I still want to see it tested before calling it safe. Even with the current problem is it 4 Star, 3 Star ?

There's no point guessing and best to hold off on judgement till we know.

If this car would be worthy of 5 stars, I am sure Tata would have already got it tested. As of now, there is a huge possibility that it will score below 5, but should definitely be 3 or more.
Honestly, I sometimes feel that the “Land Rover pedigree” has been marketed a bit too much by Tata. Agreed that it is a Land Rover platform, but it is also a Ford and Volvo platform.
The Land Rover D8 architecture is actually a very heavily modified version of Fords EUCD platform, which is an abbreviation for “European Class D”. This platform used to underpin mid size cars like the Mondeo that used to sell at prices similar to the Harrier.
Also, the Harrier platform uses different materials as compared to the Land Rover version of the platform, in order to save costs. So just like how the Volvo and Land Rover platforms were derivatives of the Ford platform, I consider the Harrier platform also to be a derivative of the EUCD.

[nkrishnap]

While all the aspects of Safety is being discussed on most online platforms. A representative of Maruti (if the handle is to be believed) posting such a thing just shows the mentality of the manufacturer.



This is OT to this thread but relevant to the safety topic as such. Shows what is wrong at grass root levels.

[Sanidhya mukund]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

While all the aspects of Safety is being discussed on most online platforms. A representative of Maruti (if the handle is to be believed) posting such a thing just shows the mentality of the manufacturer.

When the Indian market was still putting up with archaic dinosaurs (Ambassador, Premier Padmini), Maruti was the company that gave us a taste of modern engineering. In the 90s, they were the ones who introduced modern cars like the Zen and the Esteem.
They have always been one of the first manufacturers to adopt any new trend in the market. But now that the market demands safety, I don’t know why they are being so stubborn. While they have upgraded their cars to meet the government regulations, they are still one of the least safe cars on our roads. Earlier, I used to believe that they don’t give safe cars just because there is no demand from consumers. But now, it is almost like they are hell bent against safety.
It started with lame arguments like “safety will make our cars unaffordable”, and when that didn’t work, they started questioning Global NCAP itself, calling it a “self proclaimed body”. Highly ironic, because in every other Market, Suzuki respects the NCAP ratings.
Now, they will further resort to lame statements that “A car is only as safe as the driver.”
I think it is because they know that they are still blindly trusted by most buyers, so they still don’t see the need to improve their occupant safety. I see so many people calling them tin cans, but when it comes to actually buying a car with their own money, people always go to the nearest Maruti dealership.

[shravansp24]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

While all the aspects of Safety is being discussed on most online platforms. A representative of Maruti (if the handle is to be believed) posting such a thing just shows the mentality of the manufacturer.

Even though I don't agree with him in the first 4 paragraphs, I agree with the last paragraph(not relating it with the subject) 100%. Most of the accidents can be avoided if only the drivers have some knowledge about road rules, no egoism, and drive defensively.

But reducing the safety of the car by pointing at the driver is stupid! The safety of the passengers not only depends on the driver of the Maruti car but also the driver of the other vehicle that's involved in the accident (or) the ones that have caused for the accident like natural calamities, sudden huge unexpected pothole in highway, tyre burst, animals jumping into our lane unexpectedly, anything. And when these happen, not everyone can drive like Lewis Hamilton and even then, not every one of those accidents is avoidable, hence the name 'accident'. During such times, the safety package of the car and its' body shell is the only element in between life and death. So, I say, no matter what, the safety of the car shouldn't be compromised.

Atleast Maruti can provide them as option. The price difference between variants ZXI and ZXI+ is high mostly due to all LEDs and machined alloys. They can introduce another variant like ZXI safety package along with ZXI+ with better structure, ESP, 6 airbags etc and let the customer choose between LED lights and airbags.

An interesting point to be noted is that most manufacturers understand this. But the customers - not so much.. Most customers have safety as their last priority as one will be using it in city 90% of the time with speeds <40kmph and mileage/features is more of a concern than safety as people assume it's not required for their usage. But they all forget the fact that even though the features and all benefit them every day and prove their money's worth, when/if they meet with that unfortunate event(which they most probably never will but if they!), like I said above "the safety package of the car and its' body shell is the only element in between life and death".

Hopefully people realize safety is more important than features and enquire about them more than the mileage. If they start doing them, then manufacturers will also have a exclusive tab for safety with all its safety tech in its first page of the brochure instead of 25kmpl mileage and all LEDs

[fiat_tarun]

I think GNCAP has accelerated the introduction of safety regulations in India and am excited with the recent news where they have said the #safercarsforindia project will continue till 2023 - Link

The test is going to get more stringent from 2022 where points for active safety features like ESP will also be given. We are on track for a ESP legislation in 2023 and hopefully the OEM's and the government don't push to delay this as is usually the case.

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

While all the aspects of Safety is being discussed on most online platforms. A representative of Maruti (if the handle is to be believed) posting such a thing just shows the mentality of the manufacturer.

Attachment 2088398

This is OT to this thread but relevant to the safety topic as such. Shows what is wrong at grass root levels.

This person is definitely not an official representative of Maruti and is airing his personal views on Quora. I wouldn't give it too much attention.

Having said that Maruti have made official statements on their position regarding this topic, so I think it is clear they will continue to follow only the Indian regulation and nothing beyond in terms of safety.

[Raghu M]

I am very sure that the GNCAP ratings have had the desired effect on customers if not the manufacturers fully. I think a car should not be allowed in the market unless it is not safety tested by an autonomous firm (like GNCAP). Also, I personally think reviews of cars (be it written or video) should first feature the safety ratings of the car before going ahead with the review. Just like the electricity consumption of various household items (refrigerator, AC, televisions) display their annual electricity consumption ratings, I believe all cars should have their respective safety ratings displayed somewhere on the body.

I had a near fatal accident while driving my Wagon R. The impact was so bad that when someone looked at the vehicle after collision, the first question asked was - how many people died? The accident itself was not a big one. A Bajaj Boxer CT rammed into the left side of my car at full speed (I was doing around 40 - 50 Kmph). The impact was so bad, the biker almost reached the passenger seat of the car. Entire engine cabinet was penetrated, radiator, half of the engine, dashboard, windshield suffered huge damage. Luckily, we came out unscathed (maybe because it was a smaller bike). The build quality of the car was so cheap, it was not worth to even be on the roads. Tin can is the best word that I can think of. The car was a total loss and I made myself clear on my next upgrade. Has to be a safe car with crash ratings out before I buy it. I did not consider the Ecosport, Venue and other vehicles and chose XUV300 for the safety features. Long story short, the crash ratings have definitely had an impact on buyers like me.

[AZT]

Originally Posted by Sanidhya mukund

If this car would be worthy of 5 stars, I am sure Tata would have already got it tested. As of now, there is a huge possibility that it will score below 5, but should definitely be 3 or more.

Agree. I have a strong feeling even if it was 4 Stars worthy, they would get it tested and plaster social media with the news 'India only GNCAP 4 Star SUV'. The Thar is a recent addition so the Harrier would have hogged the safe SUV limelight all by itself.

The design problem they mentioned probably makes the car 3 Star or less and so they are holding off on testing and doing what Kia did with the Seltos - Let people assume it's safe and not burst their bubble.

[kamilharis]

Excellent thread. Crisp and useful content to know the things without much of an effort.

It's interesting to see that the price increase which is acceptable considering the changes each of the cars had received in various updates.

Maybe the car was already selling at an inflated price and hence they had the margin to absorb the cost post the revisions!

[jetsetgo08]

Pardon if this has been discussed before.

It appears that after the Seltos results, multiple youtubers/media houses are seen questioning the authenticity of the GNCAP results and doubting the transparency in the way the GNCAP tests are conducted.

The same are ironically seen criticising the poor build quality on a recently launched CSUV. The comments area has almost turned into a virtual warzone.