[CEF_Beasts]

GNCAP to get a lot stricter than what it is right now

Global NCAP is all set to make its safety testing protocol for India far more stringent. Its #SaferCarsForIndia programme – launched in 2014 – currently awards cars up to a 5-star rating for adult and child occupant protection, via a single crash test only.
* GNCAP to include side impact test on all cars
* New testing protocols to also consider active safety measures.

However, there is a gap to the European standards and Global NCAP expects to close in on this at a faster pace, with Furas saying “In the years since, the industry has improved a lot, so we can put a little bit more pressure in the new protocol”.

Furas also stated that elements of the new protocol are as yet being finalised. “We have considered many things, not just ESC (expected). Something that will definitely come is the side impact system,” Furas said. Currently, the side impact test is carried out for only 5-star rated cars, or if a manufacturer voluntarily submits for it. With the change in protocol, all cars will be subjected to the test. Importantly, he also added that active safety elements like Electronic Stability Control, as well as seat belt reminders, will also figure in the new protocol and are set to be prerequisites for a car achieving a 5-star rating. This is good, because it will force manufacturers, especially those with a 5-star rating, to also look at putting in place active safety measures.

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...tougher-419312

[Aditya]

Global NCAP is working to introduce more stringent vehicle safety testing methods for India. The organisation will introduce side impact tests and new protocols which will also consider active safety measures. This step is being taken in an attempt to close the gap between the standards of Euro NCAP and Global NCAP.



Global NCAP was expecting a new protocol by January of 2020. However, the outbreak of the COVID-19 pandemic forced this protocol to be postponed to January 2022.



At present Global NCAP rates cars only after conducting a single crash test and awards stars for adult and child safety. This test is called the Offset-Deformable Barrier test and involves the car driven at 64 km/h and with a 40 percent overlap into a deformable barrier. The organisation has claimed that it is the equivalent of a crash between two cars of the same weight, travelling at a speed of 50 km/h. 5-star rated cars are put through more tests like the side impact test. Such tests can also be done at the behest of the manufacturer.



In comparison, Euro NCAP conducts tests on many more parameters such crash avoidance (active) and crash safety (passive). It even conducts post-crash safety tests like ease of passenger extraction.



Link to Team-BHP News Article


Source

[SuhairZain]

Originally Posted by Aditya

Global NCAP is working to introduce more stringent vehicle safety testing methods for India

Given that they haven't been testing a lot of vehicles (because of lack of funding, I guess), how realistic is that they'll be able to test more scenarios? It makes more sense that they'll be giving more focus to crash avoidance technologies.

[Venkatesh]

A Decade of Achievement



Ten years ago India had no crash test standards. By 2020 India is now applying the most important UN car crash tests and some of its leading domestic brands are competing to obtain five star scores in Global NCAP's

Link

[fhdowntheline]

This is all good, but until the government makes the Bharat Safety norms transparent and benchmarks against GNCAP/ENCAP, this will just cause more heartburn for the forum and introduce more epithets and memes. The public in general, is more concerned about petrol crossing and staying in 3 digits.

[iamahunter]

This will work perfectly(and in consumer favor) only when the some power bestowed organization(such as the government) enforces the car companies to send across their products for testing.

Ideally the rule should be that every car model and every variant should be tested for safety standards by NCAP, and it should be a mandate.

BTW, can't the government bear the cost of these test cars?
I don't understand financial that great but, will it be too much comparatively?


On a lighter note, with the tougher crash test, God save Suzuki and Hyundai...

[Venkatesh]

Global NCAP test protocol to include ESC, active safety tech.

Under its ‘Safer Cars for India’ campaign, GNCAP will add ESC to its test protocols in 2022, with a complete revision of the safety rating system, and inclusion of active safety tech, planned by 2026.



Vehicles will need ESC to score high ratings from 2022. Separate star ratings for adult and child safety to be replaced by a single rating by 2026. More active safety tech will be added to testing protocols in the next 4-5 years.

Stressing on the importance of the new safety system, Alejandro Furas, vice president, Technological Affairs and Secretary General, Global NCAP added, “The cost of an electronic stability control box is $60 (about Rs 4,400) or less. ESC saves almost as many lives (globally) as seatbelts.”

Source

[Duckdoc]

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

GNCAP to get a lot stricter than what it is right now

It is welcome that finally side impact is taken seriously in India as pelvic fractures are common in them as the following articles show. The last article gives the historical perspective as side impact testing was taken seriously elsewhere long back.
Pelvic fractures carry a significant morbidity and mortality and I often see smashed side impacted vehicles and wonder what happened to the occupants.


Schiff MA, Tencer AF, Mack CD. Risk factors for pelvic fractures in lateral impact motor vehicle crashes. Accid Anal Prev. 2008 Jan;40(1):387-91. doi: 10.1016/j.aap.2007.07.005. Epub 2007 Jul 26. PMID: 18215572.

Chipman ML. Side impact crashes--factors affecting incidence and severity: review of the literature. Traffic Inj Prev. 2004 Mar;5(1):67-75. doi: 10.1080/15389580490269218. PMID: 14754677.



Stein DM, O'Connor JV, Kufera JA, Ho SM, Dischinger PC, Copeland CE, Scalea TM. Risk factors associated with pelvic fractures sustained in motor vehicle collisions involving newer vehicles. J Trauma. 2006 Jul;61(1):21-30; discussion 30-1. doi: 10.1097/01.ta.0000222646.46868.cb. PMID: 16832246.



O'Neill B. Preventing passenger vehicle occupant injuries by vehicle design--a historical perspective from IIHS. Traffic Inj Prev. 2009 Apr;10(2):113-26. doi: 10.1080/15389580802486225. PMID: 19333823.

[amvj]

Global NCAP is definitely a saviour. The nation is plagued with a lot of crash related deaths than any other country. GNCAP is the last hope for our nation, but why we still don't have any crash testing in our country?

Also, how do we ensure that the vehicles sent for crash tests are same as the one customer gets? I see manufacturers voluntarily send vehicle for crash tests.

[Rigid Rotor]

Originally Posted by amvj

Global NCAP is definitely a saviour. The nation is plagued with a lot of crash related deaths than any other country. GNCAP is the last hope for our nation...

I beg to differ. I have good reasons to do so. Please let me explain – it’s a long-ish post.

Concept of crashworthiness on cars was adopted from military aviation, similar to how several technologies including ABS (introduced in aviation in the ‘50s by Dunlop as ‘Maxaret’ braking), etc have filtered down from aviation to automobiles.

Military aviation aircraft without crew escape systems (ejection seats, etc) resort to several design philosophies to enhance survivability in combat. Crashworthiness is the last in that chain. Towards this, the US had pioneered the process, using statistics of crashes in the Vietnam and other operations to derive a standard for “crash resistance” and associated methods of testing. The actual level of crash resistance parameters achieved against the standard defines the percentile survivability, with 95th percentile being somewhat analogous to “5- Stars” in vehicle crash rating.

Now do remember that the crash resistance standard is a sort of “templatised” form of solution to the problem. Similar to how Asian NCAP has different standards compared to Euro NCAP, etc, the civil aviation certification standards are also different and less stringent from the military. Now, is the civil aircraft designed to the “lesser” crashworthy standard less safe as compared to the military one? Definitely not, as actual crash statistics indicate. Also, an actual crash is such an occurrence with so many variables; the 95th percentile aircraft or the “5-Star” rated vehicle may or may not fare well.

Does the military always root for 95th percentile crash resistance? Well, if it always insists then some other design parameter invariably suffers (usually Basic Empty Weight, payload, high altitude performance, etc). So a carefully thought decision is usually made as an acceptable compromise. Similarly, some members here were reasoning why not increase the front Offset Deformable impact speed to 80 km/h since that is the speed limit on our highways. Excessive focus on one sole design parameter will result in a skewed design and a car design team needs to balance several design aspects. This brings me to the next point.

A designated country’s requirements are obviously studied by the automobile design team and that includes the homologation standards and the existing market forces. In our case, our vehicle crashworthy standards are lower as compared to Euro NCAP. Our market forces dictate severe emphasis on fuel economy (due to reasons already known) and the tax structure on vehicle pricing is ludicrous. Any design team in their due process will obviously align their car design to enable homologation as well as compete and excel the designated market requirements. This explains the “made-for-India” platform derivatives that we have seen from Hyundai, Kia and Skoda. Design teams work on defined processes and take inputs on established homologation rules, not on any NGO’s stated crash standards.

In this context, please do keep in mind that Global NCAP is an NGO based in the UK. It does not have any statutory authority. This also may explain as to why, say Kia did not consider Global NCAP standards for their India platform. Ethics, morals, etc do not come into this equation. Also, this is not a justification for any OEM cutting corners – it’s just an explanation of the outcome that we see.

It’s extremely unfortunate that this NGO appears to have usurped and moved the highlight away from our certification and testing processes. It is high time the Govt recognises and intervenes with corrective measures. This should include transparent information on existing standards and compliance.

Also, on that note please understand that no foreign NGO is ever a “saviour” to fix our system. There is a whole lot of publicity flashed across various media channels whenever some Indian vehicles are crash tested by Global NCAP. These guys appear to have taken over as a de-facto certification authority for crash testing and for declaring gold standard “5-Star” ratings. Their stated objective is to ensure safer cars for India and Africa – the modern version of the White Man’s burden, if you will.

This rather cynical approach stems from personal experience in the domestic military aviation sector and experience in dealing with foreign vendors! I am sure we all are aware that there is no Free Lunch. In this context there appears to be also some fine print worth reading in this wholly magnanimous NGO overseeing the safety of Indian cars – apparently they encourage OEMs to voluntarily send their vehicles. Also, the 5 Star rating requires additional information, etc from the OEM. So all this will obviously involve costs that need to be reimbursed to get the coveted maximum rating. So this NGO occupies a nice niche in the industry, displacing our regulatory authorities!

Whilst I am not implying anything (yet) on testing methods of Global NCAP and their chosen standards, what I am clearly stating is that having a foreign NGO take over what essentially is an internal regulatory role of a domestic authority, is an absolute no-no.

[fiat_tarun]

Originally Posted by Rigid Rotor

...
Whilst I am not implying anything (yet) on testing methods of Global NCAP and their chosen standards, what I am clearly stating is that having a foreign NGO take over what essentially is an internal regulatory role of a domestic authority, is an absolute no-no.

Don't agree with your argument. Foreign or not, the GNCAP 'SafercarsforIndia' program has benefited the end consumer the most.

Thanks to all the publicity that this program got when it started in 2014, our cars have gotten way safer than they would have been if we had waited for the 'regulatory authorities' to take a decision. The automobile lobby in very powerful and there is no way we would have had mandatory ABS, Airbags, 2wheeler ABS, etc. if not for this nudge from NCAP.

In fact after the first test results were published and all tested cars got '0' stars, the government announced that the Bharat NCAP would be set up and would give vehicles a safety star rating. 7 years later and Bharat NCAP is still in the cold storage.

We have come a long way since then and now OEM's are using safety as a USP and are voluntarily sending cars to NCAP to be tested .

I am so glad to see ESC coming in from 2022. ESC has huge life saving potential and is already on the government's legislation roadmap from 2023. This will provide that much needed boost to actually bring in the legislation. We are already seeing most new launches offering ESC on a wide range on models and even as a standard offering in some cases.

[Rigid Rotor]

Originally Posted by fiat_tarun

Don't agree with your argument. Foreign or not, the GNCAP 'SafercarsforIndia' program has benefited the end consumer the most..

We have come a long way since then and now OEM's are using safety as a USP and are voluntarily sending cars to NCAP to be tested

Well, each to his own opinion. In the short term perhaps there are benefits.

I would prefer to look at the larger picture, which I have attempted to give. In the long-term, the matters will get murkier, if we allow this NGO to continue occupy centre place and dictate standards. It’s naive to believe that any foreign(or for that matter local) NGO can replace a regulatory authority's space and that its a wholly magnanimous entity.

I'm sorry I find absolutely no reason to clap and cheer if Indian OEMs chose to send vehicles to this guy and his self-described standards. It just feeds the cycle I described. There has to be an Indian regulator doing this job. The Govt needs to step in.That really is the bottom line

I shudder to think if say,the domestic aviation sector had an NGO occupying centre-stage in such crucial matters. Luckily, we have strong and effective regulators for both civil and military domestic aviation.

[fiat_tarun]

Originally Posted by Rigid Rotor

... It’s naive to believe that any foreign(or for that matter local) NGO can replace a regulatory authority's space and that its a wholly magnanimous entity.
.
.
.There has to be an Indian regulator doing this job. The Govt needs to step in.That really is the bottom line

NCAP is not a regulatory authority and neither do I want them to become one. Rule making will always be with the government which it is.

Such tests are to bring about awareness of where we stand in an area that is an accepted standard globally. It is then for consumers, the government, the OEM's, etc. to either act on this information or ignore it like many OEM's have chosen to do.

India is a signatory to the 1998 UN World Forum For Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations (WP.29), so compliance to a standardized crash test is not a big ask. Indian crash legislations as of now meet the most basic UN requirements - crash at 56kmph.

Hats off to the government as well for taking tough stands and bringing in much needed safety legislations as I mentioned earlier.

I came across this very interesting fact recently - China doesn't have an ESC legislation, but thanks to NCAP, 85% of the OEM's came together to voluntarily make ESC standard

How do you see NCAP playing the regulator role as all Indian rules are still controlled by the government?

[Rigid Rotor]

Originally Posted by fiat_tarun

I came across this very interesting fact recently - China doesn't have an ESC legislation, but thanks to NCAP, 85% of the OEM's came together to voluntarily make ESC standard

How do you see NCAP playing the regulator role as all Indian rules are still controlled by the government?

Three quick points:

Chinese manufacturers coming together voluntarily to introduce ESC because of NCAP:
Well, well, well. It’s a nice thought to have. ESC requires introduction of additional sensors, associated cables, software, testing, etc. All that involves costs. A conclusion that it was a voluntary introduction may be a bit of a Utopian assessment, given the prevailing condition in our friendly neighbourhood country, its cut-throat competition and its (non) exemplary standards. For further discussions and eye-opening status reports on the same, I would recommend the forum Bharatrakshak.com ( a non-commercial forum) with its various threads on first-hand accounts of prevailing economic environment in that esteemed country. If however you are unshaken in your belief and experience, then well, it’s your opinion.

GNCAP cannot replace GoI as regulatory body:
I stated very clearly that GNCAP has stepped in as a self-appointed gatekeeper in a well publicised manner. It may soon come to a point where GNCAP ratings may have commercial benefits for car companies and then things are likely to get murkier. While there is benefit in the short term for consumers, there may be some who may believe starry-eyed, that wholly magnanimous and generous NGOs are there to fill such regulatory vacuums. Well then – Good Luck to them!

May I finally mention that I do not intend getting involved in a fur-ball of discussion and debate, since I have gone into adequate details on each aspect in my first post. But then, if you believe in Global NCAP to be The Saviour, then Dear Team Member, wishing you the very best!

[superguy282]

While this is all well and good, unless more manufacturers other than Tata and M & M send in their vehicles volutarily, this is all for nought.

Originally Posted by amvj

Also, how do we ensure that the vehicles sent for crash tests are same as the one customer gets? I see manufacturers voluntarily send vehicle for crash tests.

Please go through this thread for more info, NCAP tests: Things to keep in mind as a buyer / misconceptions about NCAP

Originally Posted by Rigid Rotor

Whilst I am not implying anything (yet) on testing methods of Global NCAP and their chosen standards, what I am clearly stating is that having a foreign NGO take over what essentially is an internal regulatory role of a domestic authority, is an absolute no-no.

I really agree with some of the points you've mentioned above, such as the excessive importance on 5-Star safety and rampant advertisement on what is essentially one aspect of road safety but I beg to disagree with a few things. First off, GNCAP is an NPO not an NGO, and no it doesn't wish to take over our role of regulation over our cars simply due to their "Test the popular/Voluntarily sent cars" policy. They can never test all cars, neither can they become a test for the OEMs to adhere to. In fact, BSNCAP whenever it is implemented will surely take over this authority and enforce it in a much stricter way. It has existed for more than a decade now and has only recently seen the limelight. And moreover it is due to this NPO that the idea of safety itself is being widely discussed along with Indian OEMs. Even then, I have yet to see a discussion being done on the safety of a particular car based of off GNCAP outside of TeamBHP. It is not the final word and in fact WILL not be the final word, hence I don't see it as a problem but a welcome change.