[Sarath_]

The original post was too long so I will try to explain in concise first and then go in detail in the second post to those who are interested

FIRST POST : SHORT VERSION:

Why drive a car?

Many of us have our reasons for driving a car and it is an essential part of our lives. Be it a short daily trip or a long journey having a car is indispensable in these times. But why do we insist on driving a car to places where there are other means of transportation, especially much safer ones?

Downplaying the risk?

• Are we unaware of the risks of the road travel or diminish the perils in our own mind?
  
  
• By taking a car to destination served by flight or train or bus are we not putting our and any other members, usually family at a great risk?
  
  
• Is it time to change our travel habits to booking off season flight tickets or train bookings whose service has greatly improved or try out the sleeper or coach buses and ditch the car?
  

An existential question : By promoting cars as a means of transport are we indirectly contributing to decrease in safety on our roads?

Sources

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrI...MiOjEwfQ%3D%3D

https://morth.nic.in/about-road-safety

https://morth.nic.in/sites/default/f...Management.pdf

https://www.bus.com/blog/safest-mode-of-transportation/

[Sarath_]

SECOND POST: LONG VERSION:

Why drive a car?

The question is simple. We have our reasons. It is for most of us an essential and justified tool in our life. But why drive a car over other means.
Cars have consistently been at the bottom end of the safety list for transportation. Each of us is aware of at least one distant friend or acquaintance who has suffered a serious accident and sometimes not living to tell the tale.

Despite this we shrug of such news as a part of our daily life. A necessary risk some would say. A calculated risk some others would say, having an arsenal of tools and charts for every journey.

Transportation is simply a means to go from A to B. Anyone who has recently received the keys to their first bike would vehemently deny that. It is the path between A to B that matter. Not the points A and B. Several backaches and kids later the A and the B come back into focus and the statement cements itself. The same path between A and B that represented adventure, life and memories now present a predicament, another hurdle or inconvenience best forgotten or diminished.

As of writing this in 2022, our transportation options are far greater than a few decades ago. No more gawking at the latest Maruti 800 or waving at airplanes or being sent off by your entire family tree at the train station or petitioning for a bus stop at your town or village or even hoping for the luxury of a cobbled road.

Driving a car represents a great risk and threat to one’s safety; more so in our country where the issues associated with moving in a metal box and several tonnes of force is compounded by the inherent flexibility of rules and driving discipline. Humans have simply not evolved to travel at such speeds or survive an untoward incident.

I have been swimming in words that are only conveying what can be established as common knowledge on this forum. So I will not go further at the risk of sounding like a tirade or rant on cars.

So I will present my question:

Why do people insist on driving their car to a destination that can be covered by air, train or bus in a much safer manner?

I do not generally like to present my personal experiences or stories to drive the point home as each one of us has one, but I would like to present my story in this case for context in two parts:

Part A : Bikes

I have realised that bikes are the most expensive modes of transport. I say this not from a financial standpoint but a social one. The person riding a bike is usually a younger male/ female who is a productive member of the society or one who will. An accident involving a bike is usually serious, leading to a lot of morbidity (affecting their work) or mortality. A loss of such member is a huge burden, first on the family who has lost a pillar of foundation holding up the daily needs of it members emotionally and financially; also society that has one less member contributing to the overall development and upliftment of their people.

It was one fateful day I saw a young man being brought into the emergency department, one could tell two things about the situation. The person had been in an accident either road or construction related. Second, it was too late. A lot of thoughts rush into your mind at the same time and you have run through the motions of emotions quickly and be in the present. Everyone had an opinion. Before anyone could make any insensitive retorts such as “He is a young college bike rider, must be riding rash and should have worn a helmet”, a bystander interrupted our thoughts and showed us an object which a few of us rightly guessed to a helmet. It was completely crushed beyond recognition for many. This person had done everything right. A college going kid with a helmet on was a rare sight in those days especially on the city roads so this showed that this person was concerned about his safety. Someone quipped that the helmet must have been attached to the seat but that was quickly rebuked. A young life lost, although the first I witness was not the last. Within a week of that I had put my bike to rest and refrained my brother from using it, unless it is to learn to ride. But I quickly encouraged him to not pursue it and played into his already apparent disinterest in bikes.

That ended my journey with bikes. Beautiful machines that are both mythical dragons and sirens.

Part B: Cars

This experience doesn’t specifically pertain to cars but any small vehicle which doesn’t need balancing. I will stick to cars for ease of explanation.
Well I found myself in a situation where I would see a mangled limb or two, a crushed head and many similar atrocities on a daily basis. They were all travelling on the decently lit highway that connected some major cities and/or religious destinations. None of them had simple injuries baring a rare few. I do not want to go into each case but there were wedding parties travelling in a group, families on way to pilgrimage, daily wage workers in transit to work etc

Most of them required a long stay in the hospital and an even longer rehabilitation. Watching young strong men holding back their tears in some cases and in other wailing in unimaginable pain daily was a harrowing experience. I specifically mention them as they hold out the longest without expressing their true pain and you can watch the pain in their eyes and the diminishing mental health soon follows. All of this could have been avoided if they had taken public transportation, instead of deciding to go in the comfort of one’s own vehicle, on what can only be described as a perilous journey.
This slowly caused a very gradual shift in my own driving behaviour where I would be reluctant to go on short or long road trips that were otherwise well connected. This also filled me with a morbid fear for road travel.

I can completely justify my shift from bikes to cars. I am not saying I am right or being preachy. I am only expressing that I do not think I can live with two wheelers anymore. But am I justified in painting cars with the same brush in colours of fear, paranoia and doubt?

There are ofcourse limitations to to car use. For short distances which are 2 mins by walk and 10mins by car, we tend to ditch the car. For long distances, trips abroad taking your car there doesn’t even picture in mind (I know middle eastern kings tend to take their rides of private jets but this post is not directed at them). Also for very long journeys from one end to the country to other, cars tend to become too cumbersome.

There is a narrow band of distance within cities and across a few states where driving a car makes sense in the head but statistically still puts you at great risk of injury.

Is it time to ditch our car?

Change our travel habits - booking offseason flight tickets or AC / Executive class train seats (on par with flights in comfort) or try out the sleeper or coach buses?

Any points or counterpoints are greatly welcome.

[sen2693]

I totally understand the paranoia that might have led to this post, but let me ask you this - where isn't the risk? Few days back, I read a news on how a recently built apartment collapsed in a city. Staying home killed people in that case. Buses, trains, flights, choppers all are prone to accidents as well. Agreed, the probability might be much less than car/bike accidents but if it is your day it is your day. A human can be perfectly healthy one day and catch a terminal disease out of nowhere. Every moment since you are born you are at a risk of getting hurt one way of another. There is a greater philosophical point to be made here on 'Live a little' but I do not have enough wisdom to explain that statement.

Now why I bought a car - I live in Bangalore and my hometown is a remote village in TN and although there is connectivity, it is not very convenient. I will have to take multiple buses. Closest train station is 45KMs away. I sometimes need to carry lot of stuff to and fro, which would not at all be practical via public transport. I have also made a couple of road trips instead of taking flight/train because I like the luxury of moving around inside the travel destination freely without any dependence on public transport. I understand that the risk of life outweighs the convenience I am calling out, but the point is where do I stop? Maybe not travel at all to reduce further risk? Move to a rural place to reduce risk of health hazards in city? Stop eating some stuff that might be not good for health?

Driving in this country sometimes is a nightmare. I try to be as defensive as I can on highways. Give way to faster moving cars. Don't undertake unless a very clear view of road ahead and back is visible. All we can do is take as much safety precautions as possible while driving just like you do with other stuff like wearing a mask while stepping out.

[wildsdi5530]

While I agree with you on motorbikes, I stopped riding when I became an orthopedic surgeon. My hands are too precious to risk even a small injury.

Cars are preferred mode of transport for me for distances upto 1000 kms/ day. Buses are too expensive, especially if there are 2+ passengers. Trains require a lot of planning and pre-booking. No flexibility. And Air travel usually involves additional car travel at both ends, and again too expensive.

Routine trips to Tirunelveli by car takes about 8 hrs. Fuel + toll costs about 4K one way. Private bus tickets are 3K in some seasons. Govt bus has no direct route.
Train is excellent but needs to be booked well in advance, esp if you want 2nd or 3rd class. Sleeper generally fills up a month ahead.
Flights are good, but there is only 1 flight. And there is a 30 km car drive in Bangalore and a 60 km car ride in Tirunelveli. Other options are Madurai with a 200 kms and Trivandram with a 150 km drive. So beats the whole purpose.

Plus all the luggage needs to be moved at every point. By car, I load at home and unload at destination. No looking for trolley, checkin, hauling along platforms, Loading in bus belly, etc.

Of course if I'm travelling alone, I don't mind public transport, but again depends.

[porsche_guy]

I would actually like to argue that a personal car is possibly the safest way to travel long distances in these times from the perspective of catching covid. No need to stop, no interaction with strangers, no shared spaces or dirty surfaces.

[Sarath_]

Originally Posted by sen2693

I totally understand the paranoia that might have led to this post, but let me ask you this - where isn't the risk? Few days back, I read a news on how a recently built apartment collapsed in a city. Staying home killed people in that case. Buses, trains, flights, choppers all are prone to accidents as well. Agreed, the probability might be much less than car/bike accidents but if it is your day it is your day. A human can be perfectly healthy one day and catch a terminal disease out of nowhere. Every moment since you are born you are at a risk of getting hurt one way of another. There is a greater philosophical point to be made here on 'Live a little' but I do not have enough wisdom to explain that statement.

<snip>

I understand your counterpoint. I myself would say that you could die just by crossing the road or as it is called jaywalking I later realised. My point is not black and white, against or for the use of cars.

My specific reason for excesses in car usage would be, let's say a holiday. Trips that are not work related or trips to our remote ancestral homes only accessible by road. Does't a road trip present a very risky proposition; it will be an adventure of course and it is important to live life with a little risk but choosing to drive in such scenarios present a heightened risk of travel.

Originally Posted by wildsdi5530

While I agree with you on motorbikes, I stopped riding when I became an orthopedic surgeon. My hands are too precious to risk even a small injury.

Cars are preferred mode of transport for me for distances upto 1000 kms/ day. Buses are too expensive, especially if there are 2+ passengers. Trains require a lot of planning and pre-booking. No flexibility. And Air travel usually involves additional car travel at both ends, and again too expensive.

<snip>

As an Orthopaedic surgeon myself, I can share your concern for our hands. Also the source of the injuries I described.

In fact I think you are better positioned to understand that we are trained to treat the how of accidents. How to treat compound injuries, course and chart the treatment plan etc. We seldom look at the why?

Why did this injury occur ?

This is why I was left to wonder if our roads give us a sense of security where it should not.

I am not a paranoid person. I too use cars like most of the populace, never however using it for trips extensively as such.

I remember during the course of the residency there would be an injury at a particular stretch and a speed breaker or a barricade would come up. They would focus more on illumination at other pain points. All of these steps were taken as a reaction to some injury or worse.

It never made me averse to driving or made me give up my car completely. Freedom of mobility is one of the greatest asses we have, that our ancestors did not, in such excess. However all of these experiences made me respect the dangers of road travel.

[BlackPearl]

I feel much more safe and comfortable driving a car over any other mode of transport. I hate flights and drive thousands of Kilometers/Miles to avoid air-travel. Statistics might show that air-travel is the safest mode of transport, but there is a saying "Lies, damn lies and then statistics". I definitely agree to this when it comes to driving, I feel it is the safest for me and I am the happiest when driving. No amount of data and statistics can take that away from me.

[ABHI_1512]

Dangers are everywhere my friend, you don’t stop living just because you are going to die one day. I know a person who was walking in his drawing room, managed to somehow slip and flicked his head against the center table and died . Accidents can happen anywhere and it has nothing specifically to do with road travel. Just my two cents !

[nibedk]

Originally Posted by Sarath_

The original post was too long so I will try to explain in concise first and then go in detail in the second post to those who are interested

FIRST POST : SHORT VERSION:

Why drive a car?
[/list]
An existential question : By promoting cars as a means of transport are we indirectly contributing to decrease in safety on our roads?

At least this one is pretty clear to me. Some may not agree completely but my theory is backed by logic.

Reason 1 - I am an IT professional and just love the feeling of motion. Riding a bike or a bicycle or driving a car or even running/walking. If I have to list down the top 3 things in life which I love to do - Driving/Riding would be always be on top. I love this feeling of motion only if I am driver. I consider myself a very good and considerate driver. I willingly take this particular risk as nothing else keeps me happier/saner.

Reason 2 - Driving on roads I trust very few individuals(self, wife and couple more family members). I have friends who are extremely competent driver but never got a chance to really have trips long enough with them. Anyone and everyone else on the road is a stupid/moron for me. Bus and cab drivers are last folks who I would trust to drive me safely to my destination. I would rather not travel at all than to use these modes of transport. We would have barely used Ola/Uber unless there is no other option left. We either drive ourselves and tend to pick/get picked up. Then there is an element of safety while using cabs in unknown places/cities etc. I prefer my own car especially when the place/terrain is unknown to me. I can very well use it as an weapon if the need be. Mechanical failure probability is equal in a car (either personal or public) and for other modes it may represent a higher danger to life.

95% of our travel is using personal car. Rest 5% we use flights or trains usually if there is specific need/urgency. In these cases either we are travelling to visit people known to us and we rely on them for transport. Cant remember the last time when I had to take a cab/public transport.

In this age I trust myself, family, friends and relatives. I would like to keep it that way. Even with trains and planes we still have to use cabs/public transports to reach these terminals or destinations which implies equal risks of accidents/deaths etc. and safety related risks as well especially if your are visiting a new place.

Reason 3 - Last couple of years lot of us are holed up in our homes due to fear of COVID. After evading it for 18 months all in the family got it and spent s stressful 6 weeks. Still reeling with the after effects though we all tested -ve now. Even otherwise being at home has taken a toll on the mental aspect of life as well. So the point is we need to balance all things in life while doing the best to be as safe as possible. Somethings are just not in our control so no point fretting over it. The probability of injury or death remains same for all modes of road transport. The probability is much higher if you are not in control of the vehicle. Air travel the risk has comedown a lot now but in case of any eventuality the result mostly is death. Besides it also involves travel on road thus again increasing the overall probability of injury and death. Besides any other mode of road transport involves safety aspect.

Trains are the safest bet but in today's world good cars can help you reach your destinations faster while being slightly costlier. Its easier reaching a remote place in car than by a train.

Each to his own but I would prefer and continue travelling by car till I am physically and mentally capable. In case of urgencies I am will take a flight and train travel will be done in very specific cases. Any other mode of road transport will continue to be avoided by me

[Samba]

If you love to drive/ride then the risk is worth it, if not you already have options!

[anthusiast]

These thoughts were running in my mind for few months now. Thanks for articulating and putting in a thread. Trying to share some thoughts to see if it resonates:

The fascination for Cars/automobiles started since childhood since the days one started recognizing them. These appealing vehicles take us to places which creates memories, to our dear ones more often, explore, fulfill and more.

However the traffic density had drastically changed since last two decades. What was a thought provoking drive on less dense roads has now changed into a vigilance exercise. More so around the cities. A human's reaction time doesn't reduce beyond an extent but the complexities on road keeps increasing.

Well designed expressways offer a level of discipline among the drivers and reduce uncertainties. But those are not everywhere. Many state highways are still undivided lanes.

Automobiles have gotten more powerful and faster. They have also gotten more affordable (Compare the real estate prices, a Swift price of today vs 15 years ago. The ratio is lesser now) There are people of roads who over years of driving have transitioned as Defensive drivers and there are some newbies still on exploratory mode.

With the city traffic ever increasing, manual transmissions are a nightmare, smaller the car better to drive. This pushes towards thinking a small AT + more safe manual/fast AT car for highways. A single car can't suit all needs.

Have already reduced 2 wheeler usage to bare minimum. Are cars to heading the same way?

Are highway drives to be replaced with public transport usage ? Should residences be closer to workplaces ?

That vehicle which once solved a commute problem now turns into a safety hazard. Where to draw a line?

[Sarath_]

I hope no one is offended when I make some observations. If you do then I apologize in advance.

To start with, this thread is borne out of curiosity. It is not to change my own driving habits and definitely not anyone else's.

Also I am aware that this forum has some of the finest law abiding drivers in the country. At the same time that doesn't protect us from outside factors like coming face to face with a lunatic on four wheeler blasting pedal to the metal songs.

Some of the comments regarding safety in driving hark back to many years ago when helmets were first introduced. It was a great inconvenience for the public which for decades has been riding helmet less and such is the case even today in villages. The helmet also took away the joys of riding and made the expression "feel the wind in your air" moot.
Dial back a few years and seat belts were welcomed with ridicule and outrage. Being strapped to your own car seemed like an abomination.
At every step driving was thought of as an emotion and every safety measure was described as an inconvenience at most taking the fun out of a very visceral experience.
There were a few studies published by the developers for autonomous vehicle technology that the main reason for fatalities in road accidents was the human factor. You take away the human from the machine and focus your efforts on minimizing mistakes you could in theory have zero vehicular collisions. And if it did it would never be repeated since that data set is now in the system, it only keeps getting better.

This leads us to a future where we will not have the option of driving a car anymore. I assume it will eventually be outlawed to drive a powered vehicle by humans. Maybe 30 years in the future. I am not wizard.

"I love driving and it's worth the risk" could be a statement that could be banned in the future for the safety of everyone.

Are we ready for that?

You would still own a car, you just can't drive it.

I know it seems offtopic to suddenly talk about future driverless cars, but a lot of it would first come from the general motivation for increased safety from present day drivers and it is the small incremental improvements which will take us to a day we talk about accidents like we talk about polio.

With only 1 per cent of the world's vehicles, India accounts for 11 per cent of the global death in road accidents, the highest in the world, according to a report by the World Bank.

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com...le33834556.ece

[deep_bang]

The primary motivation for this thread is the number of people the OP has seen being injured in cars. This is probably an occupational hazard for you as you are in that field - i am seeing that you are a doctor and may be more towards ortho/trauma care etc. So I think this motivation which you have is not present for most of us.

Secondly, talking about statistics, while it may appear that more car travellers are injured than bus travellers, some simple actions may drastically alter that probability. For example, as i grow older, my preference is to drive only during daylight and minimize night drives. Perhaps, if you start looking at each metric, you will realise that each of us have a different threshold for what we consider as 'safe'. And we subconsciously choose transport based on that. Another example is, using a car where nice 4 lane roads are available rather than 2 lane ones without a road divider. So, my point is, each of us already make choices, and for those of us who still drive cars across cities, we have found some sort of compromise between the risk and the convinience cars offer. Secure cars like with airbags etc also help tilt the balance in the favor of using cars.

[Sarath_]

Originally Posted by anthusiast

<snip>

Have already reduced 2 wheeler usage to bare minimum. Are cars to heading the same way?

Are highway drives to be replaced with public transport usage ? Should residences be closer to workplaces ?

That vehicle which once solved a commute problem now turns into a safety hazard. Where to draw a line?

I feel like this problem is bigger than I anticipated. Commuting is a necessity and a lot of the risks associated with it are also related to city and state level planning. I hadn't looked at that aspect in much detail. Thanks for bringing it up.

Originally Posted by deep_bang

The primary motivation for this thread is the number of people the OP has seen being injured in cars. This is probably an occupational hazard for you as you are in that field - i am seeing that you are a doctor and may be more towards ortho/trauma care etc. So I think this motivation which you have is not present for most of us.

I was actually thinking the same. Am I ignoring my own cognitive bias with regards to this topic. At the very least, seeing some of the comments has shifted my bias away from my earlier hard stand.

I will try to read my own original post in a few days to see if my views seem too extreme. Thanks for putting it in a way I could reflect at my own fallacies.
Some of the earlier statements about paranoia and risk made me defensive, as I am not a paranoid person in general and I wished to express completely missing the point that this might not be a shared experience.

Originally Posted by deep_bang

Secondly, talking about statistics, while it may appear that more car travellers are injured than bus travellers, some simple actions may drastically alter that probability. For example, as i grow older, my preference is to drive only during daylight and minimize night drives. Perhaps, if you start looking at each metric, you will realise that each of us have a different threshold for what we consider as 'safe'. And we subconsciously choose transport based on that. Another example is, using a car where nice 4 lane roads are available rather than 2 lane ones without a road divider. So, my point is, each of us already make choices, and for those of us who still drive cars across cities, we have found some sort of compromise between the risk and the convinience cars offer. Secure cars like with airbags etc also help tilt the balance in the favor of using cars.

There are many intrinsic factors, like being a good driver etc that do add to our personal safety and society at large.

I am more focused on the extrinsic factors that are beyond our control. The state of our roads, the poor illumination and guidance, the disregard for the law, bad drivers etc who each add a component affecting safety and making a every drive a risky endeavor.

More than 40% of these casualties are associated with motorcycles and trucks. The most collision-prone time on Indian roads is during the peak hour at afternoon and evening

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffi...sions_in_India

https://morth.nic.in/sites/default/f..._Uploading.pdf

[fhdowntheline]

Keeping the pandemic aside, the basic question is: whether you buy cars because you go from A to B or whether you like driving an automobile.
Quoting from @nibedk in post #9, reason 1, some of us love to drive a vehicle, period. Its almost an evolutionary thing where humans have desired to control animals (horses, bullocks) and then machines. The feeling of propelling and controlling a 1 tonne plus machine on road (or even off it) cannot be explained in words. Especially if you can afford a high powered machine. Its "Top Gun" stuff, that's all I can say. Of course, no one is allowed to be a true Maverick (even in the movie). But most of us live our pilot dreams in a car, with a nice tight steering wheel and an aesthetically designed instrument console (in some cases).Case in point - Linea T-Jet from my personal experience. It is the best affordable car that you would want to drive, come hell or high water.
With respect to public transport, lets put it this way. I would take a public transport like bus/train if I had to commute directly from my place of stay to my place of work with minimum additional last mile requirements. Or if I had to commute say, between Pune and Mumbai twice a week for work purposes.
For everything else, a personal vehicle is a better option in my opinion.