[amol4184]

This is an observation slash rant that I have about T-junctions (TJ henceforth) in our towns. While it may not be so apparent in bigger cities with slightly better civic sense and driving etiquettes, in smaller towns like mine this is a menace and I have not found a solution to tackle these without getting into a honking competition and angry stares.

The area I live has TJs in abundance. Call it lack of infrastructure, poor town planning and in many cases encroachment by land owners on corners, many of the roads leading to TJs do not have dividers (not the painted lines, actual barriers). There is simply no space left to put any dividers and this is where the confusion occurs. I have not seen concept of "STOP" signs either.

I will explain with some diagrams below.

Scenario 1.

Pink Jeep wants to turn right at TJ. Green car wants to turn left (or right, doesn't matter). But the Jeep starts turning way ahead of TJ and ends up right in of front green car because of the trajectory Jeep took early on. Green car has to wait until Jeep finishes its turn end ends up correct lane.

Scenario 2.

Green car wants to turn right and per usual drifts slowly towards right side of the road and repeats the scenario #1 except from other side. The pink Jeep wants to turn right and stops middle of the turn because green car is in their lane.

I end up in both scenarios almost daily. Its frustrating.

• If incoming vehicle is a two wheeler many times the riders just prefer to squeeze on the wrong side (left of my car) than correcting their course.

• If incoming vehicle is a car and I am on a bike, car drivers honk and push me off the road even if I am on the freaking right side of the road. Because hey, bigger = king of road even if it is an Alto.

• If incoming vehicle is a car and I am also in a car: panic maneuvers and surprised faces.

Imagine this on a busy narrow road and chaos it creates. One of the major reasons we used to have traffic jams in our calm locality otherwise. So much so that corporation installed dividers there. Roads now have even less space left than there originally was but I think it is a better trade-off.

However that has given birth to a new problem. Bikers and scooterers visiting the shops on the streets and deciding to fight wrong side traffic than doing the right thing. They blatantly prefer turning on the spot to go back than following the road and taking U turn at right spot.

It feels like there is no way you can win this idiotic TJ battle.

P.S> Is the T-Junction right term? Here is my experience with Zomato/Amazon:

Zomato guy: "Sir kidhar aana hai? I'm here at xxxx" (Sir, where should I come?)
Me: "Haa, wahaan se straight aao and T-Junction se right" (Yes, come straight from there and at the T-Junction, take a right)
Zomato guy (at the TJ): "Sir idhar ek road left jata hai and ek right" (Sir, from here, one road goes left and one goes right)

[adisan]

Originally Posted by amol4184

While it may not be so apparent in bigger cities with slightly better civic sense and driving etiquettes

P.S> Is the T-Junction right term? Here is my experience with Zomato/Amazon:

On undivided roads, people taking a right turn go to the extreme right of the road, straight into the path of vehicles coming in the opposite direction from the perpendicular road. This behaviour is seen even in Bangalore; it is not limited to smaller towns. They do not seem to know that they should take the extreme right of their lane, and join the perpendicular road on the left lane.

For giving directions, using the below terminology might help:
With your pictures as reference, for the green car it is a left or right at the junction. For the pink jeep, it is a right after landmark <xyz>.

[denzdm]

This is where circles are a great help. The cars when arriving at such a junction can take a round the circle before entering the lane / road they wish to take. However, this solution is only feasible if the road width is sufficient enough.

[amol4184]

Originally Posted by adisan

They do not seem to know that they should take the extreme right of their lane, and join the perpendicular road on the left lane.

Exactly. If there are 3-4 vehicles there it instantly results in a jam. Such a simple thing to follow but hardly anyone does it.

Originally Posted by denzdm

This is where circles are a great help. The cars when arriving at such a junction can take a round the circle before entering the lane / road they wish to take. However, this solution is only feasible if the road width is sufficient enough.

The circles are another mess. We do have circles...here and there, and bikers do exactly what you don't expect them to do - instead of going around the circle they slash a cut from under the circle
And then the width of the road. Forget circles, there isn't any space to put dividers where this happens.

[Spinnerr]

Originally Posted by amol4184

....
And then the width of the road. Forget circles, there isn't any space to put dividers where this happens.

One place where I have seen such small circle work wonders is at Kannur, Kerala, Plaza junction, where Fort road meets station road. Even on the busiest times, traffic just seems to flow, smaller vehicles weave in and out, private buses plying in that route are notorious for speed, yet no choco-block traffic jams like the ones we see in Bangalore, nor any major frequent accidents or fender benders.

The roads aren't really narrow, neither is it comfortably wide, but they have a circle as big as a barrel and a huge street light in that. These are the towering large format street lamps, that has multiple lights for 360° illumination. The foot print of the entire set-up is as wide as an oil barrel, may be a little bit more.



Ps: I haven't been to Kannur recently, but if I remember right, it was a small circle doing the job.

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by amol4184

This is an observation slash rant that I have about T-junctions (TJ henceforth) in our towns. While it may not be so apparent in bigger cities with slightly better civic sense and driving etiquettes, in smaller towns like mine this is a menace and I have not found a solution to tackle these without getting into a honking competition and angry stares.

It feels like there is no way you can win this idiotic TJ battle.

Thanks for bringing up this point. This is very common in Bangalore as well. And not just in T junctions, this happens in any junction, be it small by-lanes or major roads like the Outer Ring Road. Even the so-called educated folks do not have this basic traffic sense and if you honk they stare at you like you have committed an offense

In the case of two-wheelers, it doesn't have to be even a junction. Even if they want to visit a shop on the right side, they start drifting to the wrong side much earlier and end up driving towards oncoming traffic.

I often wonder if it is a lack of civic sense or lack of awareness that causes this behavior. We don't have proper driver training and most driving schools don't teach this. The minority of us have learned by observing good drivers, or due to our travels abroad. So can we do something to educate the people on traffic rules? Maybe a team-bhp youtube channel with videos demonstrating proper driving etiquette?

[Romeo_Mike]

IMHO, the OP would be a non issue if majority of people on the road observed or more accurately, even were aware of lane discipline and right of way. The only rule that exists on Indian roads is avoid whatever is in your way. Oh and stop at red light if you see a Hawaldar

I'm afraid no amout of divider building is going to improve this situaltion. This is simply due to lack of training. The driving tests in India at present are a joke and changing this will be the most significant step in the right direction.

I can think of a few steps that the authorities can take -

1. Make the driving test for DLs a lot more rigorous.

2. Waiting period of 2 yrs before a retest if one fails a driving test. I think quite a few people are still scared of driving if they don't have a DL. This will make them try harder the first time

3. Make DL renewal mandatory every 3 yrs for everyone.

[tharian]

Just reading the opening post made me annoyed, because that is something that happens every time I step out.
Everyone thinks they are right, and there is no point explaining that cutting a straight line while joining a road is not the right way to do it, because as per them, they just took a normal turn and joined a road.

I have seen educated people in expensive cars do this in my locality, and I stop my car as close to their turning car as possible so they are forced to go wide.
Forget cabs and autorickshaws, because they don't know most of the road etiquettes or rules.

As with everything else, the shortest way is the right way mentality rules.

[RGK]

Please visit Chennai and you will be amazed to observe all drivers come to the right lane of their road to make a right turn. It's awful that even new drivers engage in this behaviour with their instructors. I once came to a halt and instructed the teacher to bring the vehicle on the left before making the right turn.

The biggest issue is that no one comes to a complete stop at any intersection, so we tend to shift into lower gears and adjust as we go. Accidents will be reduced if we adhere to a complete stop protocol.

[fordday]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

This is very common in Bangalore as well. And not just in T junctions, this happens in any junction, be it small by-lanes or major roads like the Outer Ring Road.

In the case of two-wheelers, it doesn't have to be even a junction. Even if they want to visit a shop on the right side, they start drifting to the wrong side much earlier and end up driving towards oncoming traffic.

Couldn't agree more on this. This is an everyday affair in all the lanes.

And for some curious reason a T junction is called dead-end here in Bangalore. People give directions like "go straight, dead-end, take right.."

[ambarkhan]

In Bhopal a lot of the left turns (or straight on T junction) are splitte using barricades. So normally the lefts/straigts are always moving and traffic lights are applicable only for the right turns.
I have observed this setup works a lot better in reducing deadlocks

[raktim]

Originally Posted by RGK

Please visit Chennai and you will be amazed to observe all drivers come to the right lane of their road to make a right turn. It's awful that even new drivers engage in this behaviour with their instructors.

Absolutely. We surely lack the culture of teaching and pursuing good driving manners from the very beginning.

[clementw]

Originally Posted by amol4184

This is an observation slash rant that I have about T-junctions (TJ henceforth) in our towns. While it may not be so apparent in bigger cities with slightly better civic sense and driving etiquettes

My sympathies, I think you must get used to the great nod on Indian roads. If you do not know it, its simple in the T junction if you are in Pink and the other is making a turn into you, then in most cases the driver will nod his head down and up one or more times. This simple act speaks volumes, it means:

1. Dude I am turning
2. If you value your vehicle you will wait
3. No thanks to you for waiting, this is my dad's road and this is my big entry

So when you get the famous nod, you wait...

Oh btw this works in T Junctions and all other types also where there are no medians & / signals.

[amol4184]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

I often wonder if it is a lack of civic sense or lack of awareness that causes this behavior. We don't have proper driver training and most driving schools don't teach this. The minority of us have learned by observing good drivers, or due to our travels abroad. So can we do something to educate the people on traffic rules? Maybe a team-bhp Youtube channel with videos demonstrating proper driving etiquette?

All that plus "Sab chalta hai" ("Everything goes") attitude that we as a community have. Where is the accountability if something goes wrong? Chances are someone will beat you up for doing the right thing. Peer pressure for breaking the rules is higher than for following the rules.

Originally Posted by Romeo_Mike

I can think of a few steps that the authorities can take -

1. Make the driving test for DLs a lot more rigorous.

2. Waiting period of 2 yrs before a retest if one fails a driving test. I think quite a few people are still scared of driving if they don't have a DL. This will make them try harder the first time

3. Make DL renewal mandatory every 3 yrs for everyone.

Possibly will work in metros like Mumbai. This enforcement by authorities is taken extremely lightly by most and people WILL find a loophole. I still see agents at RTO offices doing merry business despite everything being online and easy.

Originally Posted by tharian

Just reading the opening post made me annoyed, because that is something that happens every time I step out.
Everyone thinks they are right, and there is no point explaining that cutting a straight line while joining a road is not the right way to do it, because as per them, they just took a normal turn and joined a road.

I have seen educated people in expensive cars do this in my locality, and I stop my car as close to their turning car as possible so they are forced to go wide.
Forget cabs and autorickshaws, because they don't know most of the road etiquettes or rules.

As with everything else, the shortest way is the right way mentality rules.

Same. Ours is a smallish town but plenty fancy cars who don't give two hoots about such things. Also fancy/expensive car = they are right. If matters escalate, be sure people will call their "connections" for such petty reasons. Who has time to fight goons on a daily basis?

Originally Posted by RGK

I once came to a halt and instructed the teacher to bring the vehicle on the left before making the right turn.

The biggest issue is that no one comes to a complete stop at any intersection, so we tend to shift into lower gears and adjust as we go. Accidents will be reduced if we adhere to a complete stop protocol.

True. But do you even have STOP signs? We don't. I remember an old society in Pune where I used to live years ago had their own STOP signs for internal roads and no one followed it or rather no one knew why they should be there in the first place. My sister still lives there but they removed those futile signs and installed horrible speed breakers
Anything that doesn't physically make your life uncomfortable does not work. Put speed breakers (car breakers) and people will slowdown.

Originally Posted by fordday

And for some curious reason a T junction is called dead-end here in Bangalore. People give directions like "go straight, dead-end, take right.."

I am going to try this now

Originally Posted by ambarkhan

In Bhopal a lot of the left turns (or straight on T junction) are splitte using barricades. So normally the lefts/straigts are always moving and traffic lights are applicable only for the right turns.
I have observed this setup works a lot better in reducing deadlocks

Right, the barricades or dividers surely work IF there is space left, like on main roads.

Originally Posted by clementw

most cases the driver will nod his head down and up one or more times. This simple act speaks volumes, it means:

1. Dude I am turning
2. If you value your vehicle you will wait
3. No thanks to you for waiting, this is my dad's road and this is my big entry

So when you get the famous nod, you wait...

Haha good one. Trust me I have tried this, and it works sometimes, not going to lie. Doesn't reduce the frustration though.
Another solution, be in a big SUV or a Jeep. My experience improves multi fold when I am driving Thar.

[RGK]

Originally Posted by amol4184

Put speed breakers (car breakers) and people will slowdown.

If we had heeded the sign board warnings, the speed breakers would not have arrived.