[Sankar]

To all who stops questioning when they hear the words "government body" and "rigorously tested" let me remind that the worlds largest bamboo producing country is not India. Makes one wonder then why it is not used as a road barrier in the county(s) that produce more bamboo than India. And in India most bamboo production happens in the north eastern states.

Natural rubber and vulcanized rubber is a poor analogy. HDPE coating does not alter the molecular structure of the bamboo, and neither does creosote oil; which is a pesti/fungicide and offer weather protection. Its a petroleum by product.

[jalsa777]

As someone who believes he has a scientific temperament, i refrain to make negative or positive comments about the technology being used here until i go through some scientific material about this technology.
I would like to ask all the commentors above who have bashed this technology to point me to the material they referred to to come to their conclusions that this is crap tech. Thank you.

And if you have not read any material but still proceeded to bash it, let me give you an example.
A good friend of mine earned his doctorate degree by researching about bricks made of cow dung at one of the top technical universities in the world (as per QS rankings)*. While that western (rich) country loved the idea and the research was extremely rigorous, imagine if this was done in India! Most people would bash it without batting an eyelid and come up with all sorts of religious comments even. There would probably be TV debates on it. The poor guy who poured years of his life to actually conduct genuine scientific work would be ridiculed to no end without even getting a chance to highlight his work properly and having a genuine scientific review of his work.

This is the kind of attitude which tempers or even kills research-oriented work in India and we continue to see brain drain in higher research.

* Yours truly also graduated from the same university, so better not bash it

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by jalsa777

I would like to ask all the commentors above who have bashed this technology to point me to the material they referred to to come to their conclusions that this is crap tech. Thank you.

If the proponents of the bamboo barriers have material they have in support of the bamboo barrier please do enlighten us. Apart from



A road barrier test in India. Was the bamboo barrier tested similarly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bt497RWOnc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRTstctWNvQ

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by one-77

... How long will it last under the sun and rains when compared to steel?

It won't rust. That might be a big plus point.

Originally Posted by elishae

This is crazy, as bamboos are know to split with slightest longitudinal stress. Imagine, if that happens in case of an impact.

Originally Posted by Sankar

... wood and bamboo makes for a poor material to crash into is that they splinter into smaller sharp pieces and bamboo being strong will do more harm than good.

This is what worries me.

(and we are all entitled to have and express our worries, thoughts, etc.)

There are some lethally bad (or wrongly installed) steel barriers on some roads.

I'm wondering about a bamboo weave as a possibility?

I'm also wondering about the coir component. We do not know how it will be used, and haven't been able to comment on it.

[prajwalmr62]

Here's just my opinion, based on whatever little knowledge I have on these stuff.

Originally Posted by one-77

Looks like a pointless “first in the world” to me.
I’m quite sure several crores of “research” would have gone into it.
What is the purpose of this “crash barrier”?

It can be environmentally friendly alternative to steel. This would be producing least amount of carbon in production and transport state (because it weighs less = less fuel). It could even be a carbon negative alternative. I'm not sure whether cost would be any different (bamboos might be more costlier). But in the future when the fuel cost is too much, it can be profitable.

Also, we don't have to import bamboo. Lots of Forest Department land is either becoming a wasteland or getting stolen inch by inch. These lands (and forest department) can be utilized to grow this specific bamboo. Bamboos are good for soil retention compared to Acacia (which is grown by our forest department) which is basically useless except making papers and cheaper wooden items.

How safe/ strong is it when compared to standard steel barriers? Can it absorb the impact of any vehicle heavier/ faster than a bicycle crashing into it? How long will it last under the sun and rains when compared to steel?

You are trying to compare a plain metal against a composite. It cannot be compared directly. Carbon fiber can take huge load, more than steel, but can be cut with scissors. Same with bamboos, depending on how you design them. Here's a technical document on bamboo I found on Google Search link, looks like it is doable.

Also, these bamboo can probably retain their properties longer than steel out in the open since steel is very prone to corrosion, whereas bamboos aren't. Also, I'm sure the coat they are talking about is to reduce sun damage and termite infestation. So, these can probably even be out there longer than steel barrier.

I understand the purpose of steel barriers is to absorb and diffuse the impact and get deformed in the process.

This is something I'm not sure, but it can probably designed in such a way that it does catch and release. But if someone is doing a viability testing, I'm sure they have considered this in their problem statement.

[Sankar]

Bamboo barrier crash test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b63SP3Oe-W8

I don't see any conformance standard mentioned for the bamboo barrier in the test, like there was for the metal barrier test posted above. The damage inflicted on the car by the bamboo barrier was more severe than what the metal barrier did. The bamboo railings broke at a few places, unlike the steel barrier. Broken barrier railings are dangerous. Steel barrier predictable by design and manufacturing process, bamboo barrier less predictable since natural material will have variation.

Bamboo has many uses, but road crash barrier is not the best use of bamboo.

Btw if the thinking is like since bamboo is cheaper than steel and people won't nick it then bamboo barrier must be a good idea

[maddy42]

Originally Posted by kosjam

To all the people who are giving expert comments regarding the bamboo splintering and getting crushed, I bring to notice this one sentence from TusharK's post.
If a nationally accredited government body has "rigorously tested" the product, then shouldn't it be acceptable to us?

Just reading the word "bamboo" and everybody is commenting on the cons of the input material, without considering that a lot of additional materials are added to make the final product capable of withstanding the rigors of the road conditions in India.

Discussion and debate is the objective of a forum. But shouldn't the debate points be valid?

Thank you! Bamboo is widely used in construction and is recently being used as a alternative for steel in some construction practices. The govt is also promoting the cultivation of bamboo in land which is unused with the poles earning an alternative revenue sources for farmers or land holders. In karnataka the forest dept provides a subsidy for the plant costs as well as the two year maintenance costs per plant. I am one of the beneficiary of the same.

Treated bamboo is different from a normal bamboo pole, in that it can last longer and is stronger and be exposed to the elements of nature and deal with abuse. Its got some characteristics which are currently being tested in india and this crash barrier is a good start. Let these tests happen and God a 200 meter crash barrier is making people jump through loops with comments and no wonder no research occurs here as the home grown critics are enough to shut it down.

Originally Posted by jalsa777

As someone who believes he has a scientific temperament, i refrain to make negative or positive comments about the technology being used here until i go through some scientific material about this technology.
I would like to ask all the commentors above who have bashed this technology to point me to the material they referred to to come to their conclusions that this is crap tech. Thank you.

And if you have not read any material but still proceeded to bash it, let me give you an example.
A good friend of mine earned his doctorate degree by researching about bricks made of cow dung at one of the top technical universities in the world (as per QS rankings)*. While that western (rich) country loved the idea and the research was extremely rigorous, imagine if this was done in India! Most people would bash it without batting an eyelid and come up with all sorts of religious comments even. There would probably be TV debates on it. The poor guy who poured years of his life to actually conduct genuine scientific work would be ridiculed to no end without even getting a chance to highlight his work properly and having a genuine scientific review of his work.

This is the kind of attitude which tempers or even kills research-oriented work in India and we continue to see brain drain in higher research.

* Yours truly also graduated from the same university, so better not bash it

Thank you!

PS: Please research the national bamboo mission. There are more then a 100 varieties of bamboo in our country itself, and lots a players promoting it in our market. No wonder you are getting to see bamboo fabric, bamboo pillow, bamboo tissues etc in the market.

Bamboo tooth brushes are good and you all should give it a try.

[nishsingh]

Here is some data on bamboo vs steel in terms of tensile strength, which I believe will be the most important property determining the efficacy of the barrier:

The tensile strength of bamboo varies depending on the species, age, and treatment of the bamboo. However, in general, bamboo can be as strong as steel in terms of tensile strength. The tensile strength of bamboo ranges from 70 to 150 N/mm² (10,000 to 22,000 psi), with some species capable of reaching up to 275 N/mm² (40,000 psi).

On the other hand, steel has a tensile strength of around 250 to 700 N/mm² (36,000 to 100,000 psi), depending on the grade and type of steel. This means that steel is generally stronger than bamboo in terms of tensile strength.

However, it's important to note that bamboo has other advantages over steel in certain applications, such as its light weight, flexibility, and sustainability. Additionally, bamboo can be used in composite materials that combine its strength with other materials to create a material with properties that are superior to either material on its own.


So, looks like this situation called for a test and certification to prove the efficacy of bamboo, which is what the government has done.



We shouldn't be panning the move just because it is bamboo (and in our minds a regressive material).

Remember how Coalgate used to chide us for using Charcoal for brushing our teeth in the 80s? (People might remember the punchline "Badan ke liye itna kuch, aur daaton ke liye Koyla?")

Well, guess what, the same company has after 30 or so years decided that charcoal is a good way to clean up teeth and now actively advertise their charcoal infused toothbrush and toothpaste!

[Thad E Ginathom]

Bamboo towels are said to be good too: softer than microfibre!

It wouldn't surprise me if bamboo has been used for scaffolding for much longer, maybe centuries, than steel. Bamboo sticks support plants in the garden for years without rotting.

It is not as if discussing it here, including doubts, is going to cancel the whole project. So let's carry on

[stewie]

Originally Posted by Sankar

I don't see any conformance standard mentioned for the bamboo barrier in the test, like there was for the metal barrier test posted above.

Their product page mentions the conformance standard.
https://bsuindia.com/kooch-kavach-wo...crash-barrier/



Weirdly, Bahu Balli seems to be their fencing product while the crash barrier is named Kooch Kavach.
I'm giving them a pass on the cringe naming just because their renewable,eco-friendly product can pass safety standards.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by stewie

Their product page mentions the conformance standard.
https://bsuindia.com/kooch-kavach-wo...crash-barrier/

Attachment 2425928

Good to know that. The site says they conform to EN1317-2 H2 containment. But as per the video the test seems to be for H1 containment i.e., TB42 (10000kg, 70kph, 15deg) and TB11 (900kg, 100kph, 20deg). H2 containment is TB51 (13000kg, 70kph, 15 deg) for heavy vehicles and the same TB11 for smaller vehicles.





Saying the barrier qualifies all norms of EN1317-2 is an impossibility since EN1317-2 norms have several containment levels.

What is the impact severity level of the bamboo barrier?
W profile deformable barriers are level A. Most common steel barriers are W profile.





The level of destruction of the car was a lot less when it impacted with the steel barrier, compared to the bamboo barrier. The main purposes of barriers is to save lives and nothing else, everything else should be secondary.

Src:EN1317-2

Maybe, they should look at developing a hybrid barrier. Bamboo pillar footings with W profile barrier.

[LoneRidder]

Originally Posted by Sankar

Attachment 2425995

The level of destruction of the car was a lot less when it impacted with the steel barrier, compared to the bamboo barrier. The main purposes of barriers is to save lives and nothing else, everything else should be secondary.

Maybe, they should look at developing a hybrid barrier. Bamboo pillar footings with W profile barrier.

Sir, chill. Now that they have disclosed the location of the barrier let us avoid going there to be killed. I am guessing you might not be using a vehicle to commute, who knows, the tire may blast, the engine might rip off or the fuel tank might explode.

As your profile picture says, critics are more and doers are less, let us give a chance to every technology, it evolves.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by LoneRidder

Sir, chill. Now that they have disclosed the location of the barrier let us avoid going there to be killed. I am guessing you might not be using a vehicle to commute, who knows, the tire may blast, the engine might rip off or the fuel tank might explode.

Sure sir a lot can happen when if one leaves the bed.
But staying in bed also could be dangerous what if a ceiling fan drops on you since using a safety cable to tie it to the ceiling hook is an exception rather than the norm in India.

Originally Posted by LoneRidder

As your profile picture says, critics are more and doers are less, let us give a chance to every technology, it evolves.

Ok sir, but not at the expense of public $ and safety. Safer barriers exist.

[ike]

Originally Posted by prajwalmr62

It can be environmentally friendly alternative to steel. This would be producing least amount of carbon in production and transport state (because it weighs less = less fuel). It could even be a carbon negative alternative. I'm not sure whether cost would be any different (bamboos might be more costlier). But in the future when the fuel cost is too much, it can be profitable.

Also, we don't have to import bamboo. Lots of Forest Department land is either becoming a wasteland or getting stolen inch by inch. These lands (and forest department) can be utilized to grow this specific bamboo. Bamboos are good for soil retention compared to Acacia (which is grown by our forest department) which is basically useless except making papers and cheaper wooden items.

It can lower the carbon footprint but not sure how it could be carbon negative.

We don't have to import steel either, India is a steel producer and exporter.

[prajwalmr62]

Originally Posted by ike

It can lower the carbon footprint but not sure how it could be carbon negative.

Technically any tree that we grow is carbon negative. They absorb atmospheric carbon and convert them to biomass, acting as a Carbon sink. What sets bamboos apart is, that they can absorb and store carbon much better than hardwood trees. Their growth rate is also substantially higher. You can start harvesting bamboos from 5/6th year compared to 10+ years for hardwoods. It does not require too fertile land and can aid in reforestation.

If the entire process of harvesting, production, and transportation produces less carbon than the absorbed, then it can be carbon negative.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nindia.2021.46

Interesting fact, bamboos also produce rice. It takes 30-40 years, but they do. Which you can consume more or less like usual rice. Also, bamboo shoots are a delicacy. So, some bonus point for food security?

https://food.ndtv.com/food-drinks/ba...savory-1688120