[deky]

I know there are quite a few threads running on the same but I am starting a new thread as not to mix up with already existing threads.

Following is the itinerary that I have chalked out with the questions I have under each sector.

My journey would start from Jammu as my wife and kid 2.5 yrs old will already be in Jammu visiting her Mom. I will join my MIL, wife & kid in Jammu just before departing to Leh

Total days in hand 23rd July to 31st July (9 days)

Jammu to Leh : Fly 23rd July reach 23rd July by 1020 hrs

23rd July: Rest/ acclimatise in Leh. Accommodation + vehicle + permits in/around leh already taken care of

24th + 25th + 26th + 27th July: 4 full days in Leh

- what to do for 4 days?
- places to visit that are a must
- places that can me given a miss but would be nice if we go there?
- time taken to visit these places ( for eg, is it possible to do Pangong tso, khardungla and back in one-one day?
- nice places to eat in Leh ( we all love non-veg and Tibetan food)

28th July- Drive from Leh to Kargil. We are hoping to hire a taxi from Leh till Srinagar as no taxi's go till Jammu. Accommodation in kargil is taken care of.

- Driving time between Leh to Kargil?
- places to see en route?
- any places which is off the route (not much of a detour) but can be managed?

29th July- drive from Kargil to Srinagar in the same taxi. Stay at some relatives in Srinagar.

- driving time between Kargil to Srinagar?
- Places to see en route
- places to see off the route ( again small detour)

30th July - drive from Srinagar to Jammu (home) by another vehicle (will be organised by relatives) I do not want to spend time in Srinagar as I want to go to Srinagar in winters and spend 3-4 days there.

- realistic driving time?

31st July - Jammu to Jaipur by train

1st August - Morning arrive Jaipur


Please note:-

1. Cannot drive all the way from Jammu- leh - Jammu as I will be wasting 6 days on driving + with my 2.5 yr old girl we would like to go easy on long drives.
2. Arriving dates to Leh are not flexible as tickets to Leh from Jammu are already booked.
3. I have to include Jammu as wife would in Jammu and have to come back via Jammu as have to drop MIL back.
4. Just hoping my 2.5 yr would be fine with high altitude, fingers crossed.


Thanks & regards

[hvkumar]

Originally Posted by deky

24th + 25th + 26th + 27th July: 4 full days in Leh

- what to do for 4 days?
- places to visit that are a must
- places that can me given a miss but would be nice if we go there?
- time taken to visit these places ( for eg, is it possible to do Pangong tso, khardungla and back in one-one day?
- nice places to eat in Leh ( we all love non-veg and Tibetan food)

D1: Permits & local sightseeing - Leh Palace, Shanti Stupa, shopping, Spituk Gompa

D2: Pangong Tso & back - very early morning start (5 am), and very late night return (after 8 pm), quite a long day indeed, will allow you to spend 2-3 hours at Pangong. Alternatively, you will have to stay back at Tangtse on way back from Pangong and return to Leh the next day by noon.

D3: Leh to Khardung la & back, half a day drive

D4: Leh to Thikshey, Stok Palace & Hemis Palace

28th July- Drive from Leh to Kargil.

- Driving time between Leh to Kargil?
- places to see en route?
- any places which is off the route (not much of a detour) but can be managed?

All day drive.
Stop over at Magnetic Hill, Lamayuru & MUlbek, all on the way. Magnet Hill - 15 mts, Lamayuru: 2 hours, Mulbek - 15 mts.
All on the way.

29th July- drive from Kargil to Srinagar in the same taxi. Stay at some relatives in Srinagar.

- driving time between Kargil to Srinagar?
- Places to see en route
- places to see off the route ( again small detour)

Driving time can vary from 8-12 hours.
Road is in a bad condition in Zoji la and near Sonmarg.
Dras is on teh way, check out War memorial, views of Tiger Hill.
Sonmarg is after descending Zoji la.
Since you are religious, off Ganderbal (5 kms off the road), you must visit Khir Bhavani temple, she is Vaishno Devi's sister and one of the 5 Devis (includes Jwalamukhi, etc).

30th July - drive from Srinagar to Jammu (home) by another vehicle (will be organised by relatives) I do not want to spend time in Srinagar as I want to go to Srinagar in winters and spend 3-4 days there.

- realistic driving time?

All day.

[deky]

HVK Sir!!!

Thanks a lot, you have made my complete itenary and I will stick to what you ave suggested as your suggestions are tried and tested and they never go wrong.

Few more questions if you dont mind.

1. How crowded is July end in Leh?
2. How long a drive is Tangtse to Leh. My next question is based depending on the answer to this question.
3. If Tangtse is about 3-4 hrs drive, do you think we can go to Tangtse on the day we arrive. (we arrive at 1030 hrs at Leh) Say we start at 1500 hrs and reach Tangtse by 1900hrs. Rest there for the night. Go to Pangong Tso the next day and return to Leh by evening. Is that doable?
4. If the above is not doable. On Day 3 as an alternate suggested by you, we return from Tangtse to leh have lunch and go to Khardung La after Lunch. Is that possible?

Thanks again for all the help!!!

[hvkumar]

Originally Posted by deky

1. How crowded is July end in Leh?
2. How long a drive is Tangtse to Leh. My next question is based depending on the answer to this question.
3. If Tangtse is about 3-4 hrs drive, do you think we can go to Tangtse on the day we arrive. (we arrive at 1030 hrs at Leh) Say we start at 1500 hrs and reach Tangtse by 1900hrs. Rest there for the night. Go to Pangong Tso the next day and return to Leh by evening. Is that doable?
4. If the above is not doable. On Day 3 as an alternate suggested by you, we return from Tangtse to leh have lunch and go to Khardung La after Lunch. Is that possible?

Thanks again for all the help!!!

July is peak hour for Ladakh. Yes, you will have foreigners milling all over.
Leh-Tangtse is 115 kms, but that will take 4-5 hours with non-stop driving and good roads. I would suggest you add another 2 hours for bad roads, which means a revise estimate of 6-7 hours would be appropriate.
I think you should avoid any travel the day you arrive since you will go from 0 MSL (Delhi) to 3500 MSL (Leh) through Chang la 5300 MSL to Tangtse ~ 4000 MSL, you may get badly hit by AMS. IN any case, you can't leave the same day because you have to shop for permits, which will not be possible the day you arrive. I have left Leh at 130 pm and reached Tangtse in difficult conditions (snowfall) at 730 pm. In good conditions,I have taken just 3 hours from Tangtse to Karu.


Going to Khardung la - logistically what you say is possible, but bear in mind that to Khardung la, they have time restrictions, not sure if they allow traffic towards K La in the afternoon. The journey from Tangtse is tiring , better to rest at Leh before going on to K La.

[deky]

Thanks again!!

You are right, going to 4000MSL on day 1 is never a good idea. So Ill drop the idea of going to Tangtse on Day 1

Ive sent you a pm regarding another querry

Thanks again.

[wanderernomad]

Last tcp at South pullu will allow up traffic to Ktop by 1400/1500 hrs if i remember correctly.
Hitting Tangtse the same day is not advisable due to reasons mentioned by HV, but in case you are pressed for time you can do with some medication or clove of garlic, the only hitch that I can see is the unpredictable Changla. If it gets snowed in and you are caught then you would be in a soup, otherwise a quick climb up and then down towards tangste should not pose much of a problem.
If you are going to Ktop suggest a visit to Hunder, a definite must. You can go via Ktop and return via warila or vice versa. Incase the route through Ktop is not allowed through South Pullu do try the warila route, they are less strict about timings.
July end would be crowded in Leh as it would be the peak season. Also a lot of important festivals happen during July end and Aug start.
Since you are there for a limited time I would recommend the following places as must see:-
1. Shanti Stupa any day in the evening when you are in Leh.
2. Shey Palace Enroute to Hemis/Karu
3. Hemis Gompa, if you have time do visit another small Gompa about 2 kms from Hemis. A walk through a lush forest up a small gorge. People say the monks there have levitated through meditation, though you are not allowed to go and see them.
4. Pangongtso.
5. Hunder and Panamik sulpher springs (only if you have time).
6. Gurudwara Sh Pathar Sahib, Magnetic Hill, Dha all enroute to Kargill. Lamayuru monastry can be given a go by if pressed for time.
7. A few peaceful moments by the banks of Indus at Sindhu darshan complex. Nothing to see but the ambience is very peaceful and refreshing.

[deky]

Originally Posted by wanderernomad

Last tcp at South pullu will allow up traffic to Ktop by 1400/1500 hrs if i remember correctly.

As hinted in the first post, TCP will not be a problem, rather hopefully not.

Hitting Tangtse the same day is not advisable due to reasons mentioned by HV, but in case you are pressed for time you can do with some medication or clove of garlic, the only hitch that I can see is the unpredictable Changla. If it gets snowed in and you are caught then you would be in a soup, otherwise a quick climb up and then down towards tangste should not pose much of a problem.

This is a good suggestion, but as suggested by you and Hvk Sir, I would rather take it easy on the first day as I have my 2.5 yrs old daughter with me. And just for my greed for nature and beautifull landsacpes, I dont think it will be right to put her under pressure.

If you are going to Ktop suggest a visit to Hunder, a definite must. You can go via Ktop and return via warila or vice versa. Incase the route through Ktop is not allowed through South Pullu do try the warila route, they are less strict about timings.

If we start Leh in the morning say around 8'ish, will this all be possible in one day, can we return back to leh the same evening?

July end would be crowded in Leh as it would be the peak season. Also a lot of important festivals happen during July end and Aug start.

Will be nice to see some festivals, i.e if we have some time left.

Since you are there for a limited time I would recommend the following places as must see:-
1. Shanti Stupa any day in the evening when you are in Leh.
Think we will do exactly the same, finish Shanti stupa in the evening the day we arrive.

2. Shey Palace Enroute to Hemis/Karu
You mean the day we returning from/ going to PangongTso, it will be on our way, right? (detailed pangong tso route planning after HVK Sirs quote)

3. Hemis Gompa, if you have time do visit another small Gompa about 2 kms from Hemis. A walk through a lush forest up a small gorge. People say the monks there have levitated through meditation, though you are not allowed to go and see them.
4. Pangongtso.
5. Hunder and Panamik sulpher springs (only if you have time).
6. Gurudwara Sh Pathar Sahib, Magnetic Hill, Dha all enroute to Kargill. Lamayuru monastry can be given a go by if pressed for time.

On the map I see 2 routes to Kargil via Leh. First is Khaltse-Lamayuru-Mulbekh- Kargil and the other is Khaltse - Dha- Batalic- Kargil. Which one is the correct route, which one should I take? I remeber seeing moon craters on my visit to leh when I was a kid (20yrs back) on which route do they fall?

7. A few peaceful moments by the banks of Indus at Sindhu darshan complex. Nothing to see but the ambience is very peaceful and refreshing.

And also take my angling rod and catch some fresh water trout. I know the Budhhist Monks would kill me for this.

Originally Posted by hvkumar

July is peak hour for Ladakh. Yes, you will have foreigners milling all over.
Leh-Tangtse is 115 kms, but that will take 4-5 hours with non-stop driving and good roads. I would suggest you add another 2 hours for bad roads, which means a revise estimate of 6-7 hours would be appropriate.
I think you should avoid any travel the day you arrive since you will go from 0 MSL (Delhi) to 3500 MSL (Leh) through Chang la 5300 MSL to Tangtse ~ 4000 MSL, you may get badly hit by AMS. IN any case, you can't leave the same day because you have to shop for permits, which will not be possible the day you arrive. I have left Leh at 130 pm and reached Tangtse in difficult conditions (snowfall) at 730 pm. In good conditions,I have taken just 3 hours from Tangtse to Karu.

This is specifically regarding the trip to Pangong Tso. After reading your posts and the discussion we had on PM, tell me if this is doable. Please keep in mind I have a baby travelling with us.

I shall put forth the plan for full 4+1(acclimatisation) days in Leh after confirming these things.

Day 1: Leh- Lukung/ Lukung ( night halt at Lukung or phobrrang) Start leh 8am

• En Route see Thiksey and Stock. Not sure if we can add Hemis also on this day itself.
• Doable??

Day2 : Lukung- leh (via Karu) starting by noon from Lukung

• Try attempting Marsimik la early morning and then stop by Pangong tso after that till noon and start back for Leh latest by 1300hrs. Doable?
• Sir, how long does the route suggested by you i.e Lukung- Spangimik - Chushul- Nyoma - Mahe- Upshi - Leh would take? Possible to reach back Leh by 2100hrs if we start at 1300 hrs from Pangong?

Thanks and regards

[hvkumar]

If we start Leh in the morning say around 8'ish, will this all be possible in one day, can we return back to leh the same evening?

Yes, you can go and return from Nubra Valley to Leh the same day. However, weather conditions can deteriorate in the latter part of the day, hence driving up K La either way in the first part of the day is advisable.

You mean the day we returning from/ going to PangongTso, it will be on our way, right? (detailed pangong tso route planning after HVK Sirs quote)

Yes, Stok Palace and Thikshey are on the way from Pangin back to Leh. However, for Hemis, you will have to go a little further (10-20 kms) from Karu. If you leave from Pangong in the morning, you can cover all 3 places on the way back to Leh.

On the map I see 2 routes to Kargil via Leh. First is Khaltse-Lamayuru-Mulbekh- Kargil and the other is Khaltse - Dha- Batalic- Kargil. Which one is the correct route, which one should I take? I remeber seeing moon craters on my visit to leh when I was a kid (20yrs back) on which route do they fall?

The preferred route is Kargil-Mulbek-Lamayuru-Khaltse-Leh. You can stop over at the Maitreya Buddha Statue at Mulbek, the monastery at Lamayuru on the way. The lunar landscape is at Lamayuru.

Doing M La as early as possible is advisable.

how long does the route suggested by you i.e Lukung- Spangimik - Chushul- Nyoma - Mahe- Upshi - Leh would take? Possible to reach back Leh by 2100hrs if we start at 1300 hrs from Pangong?

I have not been on the Pangong-Chushul-Nyoma-Mahe route (restricted to civilians), but I believe that road is very bad. You can also go to Chushul directly from Tangtse.
No, it is not possible to reach Leh so fast, I expect the drive to Chushul itself to take at least 5 hours from Lukung and from Mahe to Leh itself should take you 4-5 hours. Add the time for Chushul to Mahe, and you will see that it makes for a very very long drive. Better to stay at either Chushul (the border) or Nyoma/Mahe army camps.

[deky]

The itinerary has been more or less finalised and all tickets have been done. I would like to thank HVK & wanderernomad for the invaluable inputs.

The Itinerary looks like this:-

• 23rd July :- Fly from Jammu to Leh (rest day In Leh)

• 24th July:- Leh Palace, Shanti stupa, shopping, Spituk Gompa

• 25th July:- Drive to Pangong Tso, see pangong tso, night halt at Phobrang

• 26th July:- Early morning try attempt Marsimik La, later return to Leh seeing Stock, Thiksey and Hemis.

• 27th July : Leave for Khardungla and return to Leh via Nubra valley by the evening

• 28th July:- Taxi from Leh to Kargil (night halt in kargil) enroute see Lamayuru, Mulbek, Magnetic Hill, Pather Saheb

• 29th July:- Taxi from Kargil To Srinagar (night halt in Srinagar) enroute see Dras, war memorial

• 30th July:- Srinagar and around

• 31st July:- Srinagar and around

• 1st August:- Fly from Srinagar to Jammu

Thanks and regards

[hvkumar]

Good plan. Weather conditions should be stable when you travel. Be mindful of check post timings at North Pullu Check Post on returning from Nubra Valley in the late afternoon. Further, currently timings for traffic across Zojila are regulated with traffic from Kargil side being allowed only in the morning hours, maybe they will revert to allowing cars during other hours also as roads improve.

[deky]

Originally Posted by hvkumar

Good plan. Weather conditions should be stable when you travel. Be mindful of check post timings at North Pullu Check Post on returning from Nubra Valley in the late afternoon. Further, currently timings for traffic across Zojila are regulated with traffic from Kargil side being allowed only in the morning hours, maybe they will revert to allowing cars during other hours also as roads improve.

Thank you Sir, will keep in mind both the points you have suggested

Regards
Dhiraj

[rkbharat]

Plan looks fine

Originally Posted by hvkumar

Weather conditions should be stable when you travel. Be mindful of check post timings at North Pullu Check Post on returning from Nubra Valley in the late afternoon.

Timing is no issue to small private vehicles(even alternate days ), unless conditions are really bad.

Originally Posted by hvkumar

Further, currently timings for traffic across Zojila are regulated with traffic from Kargil side being allowed only in the morning hours, maybe they will revert to allowing cars during other hours also as roads improve.

As of now, 6Am - 10Am, from Kargil to Sonmarg, from 11Am - 3PM Sonmarg to Kargil, rest all time for clearing the road, though they do let small vehicles go on between, but you might have to wait for some time at Ghumri checkpost

[hvkumar]

rkbharat, thanks for this useful info. What about Jawahar Tunnel - does it close at midnight? Any idea?

[TaureanBull]

No the Jawahar Tunnel is open 24hrs now save the landslides/snowfall. It used to be closed during night few years earlier.

I dont know about Leh never been there. But I am pretty sure this side of Jawahar Tunnel that it rains pretty heavily during your time of travel. (ie July & August). There used to be landslides at Ramban and Banihal specially at Khooni Nala area. Normally its cleared within a day. Anyone else on this?

[deky]

Originally Posted by rkbharat

Plan looks fine


Timing is no issue to small private vehicles(even alternate days ), unless conditions are really bad.


As of now, 6Am - 10Am, from Kargil to Sonmarg, from 11Am - 3PM Sonmarg to Kargil, rest all time for clearing the road, though they do let small vehicles go on between, but you might have to wait for some time at Ghumri checkpost

Does 6AM -10AM mean that we will have to cross Zozi La in between those 4 hours or can we start from Kargil any time in between 6-10am? I think the first seems a more practical thing, but I thought I will still confirm.

Whats the ideal time taken from Kargil to Sonamarg?? I know I did it 20 years back but I do not remember it at all now.

Thanks