[rajushank84]

Hey folks!

I'm looking at midsize sedans in the 3-4L range. Personally don't like CVTs, and filtering out AMTs too. Going for either a torque-converter or dual-clutch. Just in terms of driving feel.

Also from personal bias, narrowing down to three brands:

• Honda
• Ford
• Volkswagen

So this means my shortlist is between

• Honda Amaze
• Honda City
• Honda Civic
• VW Vento
• VW Jetta
• Ford Fiesta
• Ford Aspire

Let's forget Civic and Jetta for now, since finding them in good nick at 3L-4L while not impossible, is not a small or quick task. Takes patience. So setting them aside for now.

Also setting aside the Amaze as it is a size down from the others. (I should set the Aspire aside tooo, but have questions about it).

So between 1st-gen Fiesta, 1st-gen Vento, first-gen Aspire and 3rd-gen City ("ANHC" as we remember it). Automatic cars.
My questions are:

• Which of these has proven most reliable?
• Is the Vento's AT a torque-converter or DSG? If I'm not mistakn, the "GT Tsi" and "GT Tdi" versions get the DSG but the regular Vento gets a 6-speed torque converter.
• Follow-up to the previous question, which is better reliability wise VW's TC or VW's DSG?
• How is the automatic on 2011+ Fiesta DCTs?
• How is the automatic on Figos and Aspires? Are they reliable relative to Honda/VW, also are they any more reliable than the AT used on Fiestas and Ecosports?

Any other thoughts/suggestions around this?

[AnandB]

A year or two back Vento had DSG while Rapid didn't. Not sure about older models.

I suggest also have a look at SX4 automatic (TC). Its nothing great but you can get it cheaper and maintaining it will also be cheaper. Even though it flopped it has a good stance and practical for our roads and build quality is solid compared to current Maruti's.

[Kosfactor]

After 10 years of use , you are more likely to find a Honda City in good nick than the rest of them, good luck.

In my opinion, that is not a budget you should be thinking of while buying a vehicle of this size, it is too less. The likelihood of ending up with an absolute basket case is very real.

[rajushank84]

Originally Posted by AnandB

I suggest also have a look at SX4 automatic (TC).

That makes sense! Thank you.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

In my opinion, that is not a budget you should be thinking of while buying a vehicle of this size, it is too less.

That's a useful angle, thanks. Maybe the Amaze - maybe Aspire - is a better choice in this budget range after all.

I'm eyeballing a couple of 2011-2012 Citys online though.

Just not sure if I should dare eyeballing Fiestas and Ventos, particularly their gearboxes..

[Tapish]

Fast and cheap will not be reliable.

What will help is if you can put down 1. your intended use and 2. the maintenance cost you are ready to plonk in per year. That will help others suggest better.

T

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

• Which of these has proven most reliable?
• Is the Vento's AT a torque-converter or DSG? If I'm not mistakn, the "GT Tsi" and "GT Tdi" versions get the DSG but the regular Vento gets a 6-speed torque converter.
• Follow-up to the previous question, which is better reliability wise VW's TC or VW's DSG?
• How is the automatic on 2011+ Fiesta DCTs?
• How is the automatic on Figos and Aspires? Are they reliable relative to Honda/VW, also are they any more reliable than the AT used on Fiestas and Ecosports?

Any other thoughts/suggestions around this?

The Honda City CVTs are by far the most reliable from this lot.

The Vento Automatic (1.2 TSI) came with a DSG. Not Torque Convertor.
They are infamous for their problems!

VW had introduced Torque convertor only a year back with the Polo/Vento 1.0 TSI.
The reliability of these boxes are yet to be proven.

Fiesta DCTs were not known to be great either.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...rbox-woes.html (Ford Fiesta DCT Automatic: Gearbox woes)

[Shreyfiesta]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

How is the automatic on 2011+ Fiesta DCTs?

For the truth to be said, Ford's dual-clutch ATs aren't really trouble-free, it was always known for shuddering issues and all. Fiesta's dual-clutch transmission was made by a JV between Ford & Getrag, and the same unit was also used on EcoSport and Aspire. The transmission was sealed and warrantied for 10 years or 2,40,000 kms if I remember correctly. On the other side, this particular transmission is decently reliable when compared to that of Vento's DSG DQ200.

If you're ready to live with Ford's troublesome DCT, I strongly recommend you to choose Fiesta over City, Vento, Amaze and Aspire. Believe me, no other car in the mid-size sedan category can offer fun like a Fiesta

[Researcher]

I have added my replies below:

Originally Posted by rajushank84

So between1st-gen Fiesta, 1st-gen Vento, first-gen Aspire and 3rd-gen City ("ANHC" as we remember it). Automaticcars.
My questions are:

• Which of these has proven most reliable? - City (and SX4)
• Is the Vento's AT a torque-converter or DSG? If I'm not mistakn, the "GT Tsi" and "GT Tdi" versions get the DSG but the regular Vento gets a 6-speed torque converter. - Only 1.6 MPI was torque convertor (TC), rest DSG
• Follow-up to the previous question, which is better reliability wise VW's TC or VW's DSG? - The TC was sourced from Aisin which is owned by Toyota, so more reliable. Same is being used in 1.0 TSI.
• How is the automatic on 2011+ Fiesta DCTs? - Not reliable and also sold less than VW DSG.
• How is the automatic on Figos and Aspires? Are they reliable relative to Honda/VW, also are they any more reliable than the AT used on Fiestas and Ecosports? - The 3 cylinder 1.5 Figo/Aspire/Ecosport have a TC whereas the older 4 cylinder ones have a dual clutch which is prone to failure. A Honda/VW TC will be more reliable.

Any other thoughts/suggestions around this?

If I were to choose in that price bracket, I will try getting the following in decreasing order of priority:

1. SX4
2. Corolla/Altis
3. Honda City
4. Honda Civic

For old cars on a tight budget, I will prefer a Maruti, then Toyota and Honda. I will stay away from DSG Germans as an old 3-4 lac German can quickly become a 5-6 lac German if part replacement is needed. Same is the case with automatic Fords with the DCT.

Originally Posted by AnandB

I suggest also have a look at SX4 automatic (TC). Its nothing great but you can get it cheaper and maintaining it will also be cheaper. Even though it flopped it has a good stance and practical for our roads and build quality is solid compared to current Maruti's.

This is actually a great suggestion, coming from an owner himself.
I will actually rate the SX4 higher than the rest due to its ground clearance, affordable upkeep and a fairly reliable TC (again an Aisin unit) which is probably still in use in the Ertiga/XL6/Ciaz/Brezza/SCross petrols. I drove a cousin's SX4 AT a few months back and it can be termed as adequate both in the city as well as highway. I myself own a manual ZXi, so can say that the visibility from inside, handling and ground clearance are slightly better than my friend's 4th Gen City and cousin's Ciaz, probably due to the SX4's European roots. With Maruti's backing, you can have peace of mind for years to come.

[TrackDay]

Not sure, but I don't think the first generation Fiesta (India) came with an automatic option. Never seen one. Also the Honda Amaze was launched in 2013, so not yet a decade there.

My options for a decade old automatic would be the Civic and Corolla. Find one that has been maintained in top shape. Of the lot, I feel that the civic hasn't aged a day. The car still looks relevant after all these years. And so does the Corolla. Those two would be my top priority if I were to retain the purchase for the next 5 years.

At 3-4 lakhs INR and decade old cars, the above examples are hard to come by in good shape. Maybe you can find a City or SX4. Try increasing the budget or the age of the car to work in your favor. For cars older than a decade the Corolla will still run like a charm provided it has been taken care of reasonably.

[libranof1987]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

I'm looking at midsize sedans in the 3-4L range.

An AT sedan in the 3-4 lakh budget - you're looking at cars that are at least a decade old. Do factor in all the consequences that brings about: higher chances of repairs/replacements and possibility of a longer wait time for spares, esp. given that these brands aren't exactly fast moving. Also, if you plan on keeping the car for a while, re-registeration. Also, the AT from a decade back isn't going to be much fun to drive, could require work (which won't be cheap or quick) and if Ford/VW, isn't going to be very fuel efficient.

Will this be your primary vehicle? If so, highly recommend that you increase your budget and get a newer vintage vehicle.

If I absolutely had to, I'd choose the City VAT ('08 - '12) just for the reliability - this gen of the City was particularly spectacular with regards to reliability and part quality.

[rajushank84]

A lot of good insights here. Yes, this will be my primary vehicle other than the bike of course.

It sounds like something has to give. One of:

• Probable reliability
• Boot space
• Transmission
• Budget

I am not inclined to increase the budget.
I think I will compromise on the boot space and go for a Brio.

(What I should be doing is go for an Amaze, but god that shape!)

What I was hoping to see on this thread - wishful thinking - is that Ford and VW autos have been reliable after all. But, much the opposite I guess.

So... Honda it is because

• Torque converter
• Reliability

SX4 is a great suggestion but for some reason it seems to be super overpriced in my city.

Thanks, gentlemen!

[RavSam]

The only cars you'll find in that range and relatively new are:

1. Honda Brio AT
2. Nissan Micra CVT (or Sunny CVT if you are lucky)
3. MS SX4 AT (not so new)
4. 1st Gen Vento/Rapid TC ATs

Not including DCTs here as it's usually a gamble

Before entirely filtering out the AMT's do take a TD of them and decide.

[Turbohead]

The Vento and Rapid prior to 2013 had the 1.6 MPI NA engine with torque converter gearbox.

It's a rare find. I believe Hayek and Noopster had one.

You'll have higher chances of finding an automatic City though.

[rajushank84]

Originally Posted by Turbohead

The Vento and Rapid prior to 2013 had the 1.6 MPI NA engine with torque converter gearbox.

But is that VW TC a reliable one?

[CarKid@40]

[quote=rajushank84;5101347]Hey folks!

Personally don't like CVTs, and filtering out AMTs too. Going for either a torque-converter or dual-clutch. Just in terms of driving feel.

Also from personal bias, narrowing down to three brands:

• Honda
• Ford
• Volkswagen

So this means my shortlist is between

• Honda Amaze
• Honda City
• Honda Civic
• VW Vento
• VW Jetta
• Ford Fiesta
• Ford Aspire

From your preferred list, CITY or AMAZE will be the most reliable bet. As for the CVT option, Honda does give paddle shifters that are fun to drive and filter out the lag in Sports mode though it might be hard to get in your budget. Ford and VW would be more fun to drive but less on reliability and comfort.