[Peejay]

Hi Guys,

My dad owns a 2012 All New Ford Fiesta Petrol Automatic. Its just done 17K Kms in the last 3+ years.

My father wanted to buy this car in spite of my advice not to. I was apprehensive at the time of buying because the gearbox was brand new and I didn't know how it would perform in Indian conditions. My fears came true, in year two when the car had done just 10K Kms. The car started jerking while shifting from gear 1 to 2, the jerks went from faintly noticeable to quite rough.

Took it to the dealer and they said that its under warranty and they will take care of it. They apparently replaced the clutch assembly and returned the car, but I didn't get a proper technical (but still layman) explanation of what had gone wrong. Since it didn't cost me anything and the driving was fine again, I ignored it (mistake).

End of year 3 and 14K kms same problem! My warranty had just expired, but Ford India looked into the issue and I told them that this is obviously some defect with their component. They replaced the clutch assembly again and free of cost and assured me that they have used the latest component that they currently use in the EcoSport, and now the problem should be resolved. 5 months down and 4k Kms later the same issue!

Have any of you had similar issues, how was it handled by Ford and has it been a good fix with no recurrence? Any feedback will be helpful.

[roy_libran]

Yes this problem is fairly symptomatic of the Clutch pack beginning to go bad in the AT. Do you religiously shift into 'N' when you stop at traffic lights etc.? Moreover, do you regularly drive in conditions where the car keeps toggling between the lower gears? From what I know, these conditions exacerbate the Clutch Pack's wear and tear.
While I can't give you any further points around this, I'd be interested to see if other's have more thoughts around this.

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by roy_libran

Yes this problem is fairly symptomatic of the Clutch pack beginning to go bad in the AT. Do you religiously shift into 'N' when you stop at traffic lights etc.? Moreover, do you regularly drive in conditions where the car keeps toggling between the lower gears? From what I know, these conditions exacerbate the Clutch Pack's wear and tear.
While I can't give you any further points around this, I'd be interested to see if other's have more thoughts around this.

In a Dual Clutch unit, at 17k, no amount of not shifting to neutral at traffic signals, or driving in slow moving traffic where the car keeps toggling between lower gears will wear out the clutch pack. 17k kms is too early for driver induced damage to the gearbox, unless he is holding the car on a gradient using just the gearbox(and not brakes) for long periods of time, which is unlikely in most cases.

[GTO]

Damn, it looks like dual-clutch ATs simply aren't trouble-free. Fords are usually reliable and I thought their DCT will perform well. At the time of the Fiesta DCT official review, they even told us that:

Originally Posted by GTO

Sealed-for-life : This 6-speed transmission is sealed for life and, Ford claims, is zero maintenance. It doesn't even require any change of transmission fluid throughout its stipulated 10 year / 240,000 kms lifespan.

Ford has suffered class action lawsuits for the DCT - link. Unfortunately, a lot of owners are affected by this. Search through American forums and you'll see innumerable complaints of premature clutch replacements.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention! Since Ford made tall claims of the gearbox being maintenance free for 10 years, hope they put $$$ where their mouth is, and offer free repairs even if the vehicle is out of warranty.

[roy_libran]

Oh absolutely Anshuman, there is a component/design issue here.
What I said was that these driving conditions 'exacerbate' (Not Cause) the problem.
As GTO rightly said, we need to look closely at Ford and see what they do, especially since they have made very tall claims about this GearBox.
On my Ecosport AT, at 18000 km, I am yet to observe this issue, but keeping my fingers crossed.

[Simhi]

Thanks Peejay for bringing this to our notice.

Originally Posted by GTO

Damn, it looks like dual-clutch ATs simply aren't trouble-free.

I have been recommending people to buy Ecosport AT over Vento / Rapid AT (due to DSG issues) or other 4 speed AT (due to performance).

I think after knowing this I will better stick to recommending only conventional AT or CVT. I hope there are no major issues with CVT.

[The Rationalist]

Man that's so scary, I have just made a booking for Aspire AT. I don't change cars often and reading this, I'm in a dilemma. But the other option is a VAG DSG, really between the devil and the sea

[purohitanuj]

I am yet to see a non-conventional(non TC) AT tranny (like DCT, DSG, AMT) which remains trouble free. As these uses clutch which wears with time, thus maintaining them operational is a tough job for a software. Its more like adding more computing power and sensors to detect clutch wear and alter the "custom / in-house" algorithm to compensate for it!

When the Celerio was launched, I did a lot of research on AMTs (Fiat's and Smart4two) and found that these start to knock in some time. The main culprit stated as the actuator itself; which is easy to change but very difficult to reprogram/learn. The ASC in India are not sound enough to use a laptop and make the transmission re-learn the clutch biting. Thus, in my opinion, clutch based tranny will fail here, not due to design issue but of lack of educated service engineers. ASC will replace clutch, transmissions, TCU's but not try to find the root cause. This is OK only till the warranty lasts.

[itwasntme]

Looks like the good old torque converter is the way to go. Also, given the trend towards the low cost AMT, it will be a few years before the long term feedback is received.

[Simple_car]

Dear Peejay,

My DCT fiesta is at 25k kms at this moment. Mine is also an 2012 model (and hence, very much likely to be from the same batch). I have had no such issues as yet. The only jerk which I get from the transmission, is when I am driving very aggressively (but that too happens very rarely).

That said, I hope the members of this forum realize that DCT transmissions available to us aren't well adapted for our conditions (I would like to include the VW DSG units as well). I have told this in my ownership report as well, that the torque converters and CVT's are a lot more suitable for the Indian traffic scenario. Most members wouldn't agree then... I hope people will see sense now, and take better decisions.

Thanks,
Simple_car

[khan_sultan]

Originally Posted by Peejay

Hi Guys,

My dad owns a 2012 All New Ford Fiesta Petrol Automatic. Its just done 17K Kms in the last 3+ years.

========
The car started jerking while shifting from gear 1 to 2, the jerks went from faintly noticeable to quite rough.

=========
They replaced the clutch assembly again and free of cost and assured me that they have used the latest component that they currently use in the EcoSport, and now the problem should be resolved. 5 months down and 4k Kms later the same issue!

Have any of you had similar issues, how was it handled by Ford and has it been a good fix with no recurrence? Any feedback will be helpful.

Scary..!!!

I have a 2012 DCT Fiesta and it's now ~42K kms on the odo. There was a TSB update (TSB 13-9-4 which supersedes TSB 13-4-5 & 12-4-6) for the issue you have mentioned (Ford TSB calls it intermittent clutch shudder). You can read the TSB here

I had taken my car for this TSB update in Jan 2014 and they had replaced the clutch. No issues after that as yet. Details here

Hope Ford sets your DCT box right and finds the root cause.

[Peejay]

Hi Everyone

Thanks for all your responses. I am taking the car to the dealership in Bangalore this Saturday to see what response i get.

Something i did want to add which i didn't in my original post was my family owns an i10 Sportz AT 2010 Model 35K on the ODO and a 2013 Hyundai Elantra Diesel AT with 25K on the ODO. We also had a Santro Xing AT for a few years with 17K on ODO before we sold it and in all three cases its been pure pleasure with the gearbox and driving experience. We have had no issues what so ever. I think the i10 and Santro have more simper technologies and seems like that's the way to go for our Bangalore touch and go traffic.

Will keep you guys posted on the outcome with Ford. Thanks for all the links and on the Class action suit and the TSB updates, appreciate it, i am sure it will be helpful in my conversations with Ford India.

Peejay

[khan_sultan]

Originally Posted by Peejay

Hi Everyone

Thanks for all your responses. I am taking the car to the dealership in Bangalore this Saturday to see what response i get.

...

Which dealer/location, if I may ask? I got my TSB-work done at Metro Ford St Marks road.

All the best and escalate to ford directly, if necessary.

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

This dual clutch unit is from which supplier, is it Getrag? Is it used in any other Indian models?

Spike

[GTO]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

This dual clutch unit is from which supplier, is it Getrag?

Made by a JV between Ford & Getrag (Getrag Ford Transmissions).

Is it used in any other Indian models?

EcoSport and - yikes - the higher volume Aspire .