[civic-sense]

Time to start looking for a replacement for the Civic. Not in a hurry, though.

Am, paranoid about safety, so that is my prime concern. Resale value, fuel efficiency etc does not matter. Like petrols, but can live with a diesel.

Like the Cruze, the Laura, the Jetta. Cruze has a 5 star Euro NCAP rating, but the Laura has only 4 stars. But somehow, the Laura "feels" much more safer. But then, have a doubt, though. Do the NCAP ratings have any relevance in India? For example, does the Indian manufactured Cruze adhere to all the factors it adheres to Cruzes manufactured in Europe? Don't know about GM, but I would definitely not trust Maruti with it. Lastly, how does a used 3 series compare with the above?

Advices needed. Badly!

[karanraheja]

The New Civic Concept is being unveiled later today in US, so how about another Civic. On a serious note i would advice you to wait for the Next Gen Jetta and it should be launched in India sometime this year , else the Laura TSI.

[prateekm]

The Skoda Superb 1.8 MT has the best safety + luxury features though you might have to stretch your budget by a couple of lacs. 8 airbags, ABS, EBD, Traction Control, ASR, EDL, ESP, HHC, TPM and what not Costs about ~23l on road. Skoda maintenance may be bit of a concern though.

[GloryManUnited]

The Skoda Yeti has a 5* NCAP rating. It is one of the safest cars in the segment you are looking at. You might want to consider that as well.

[androdev]

@civic-sense,
NCAP rating should not be the only criteria. i20 is NCAP-5 but it may not compare to say a BMW.

I am also very paranoid about safety - I keep checking the "accidents in india" thread very regularly to understand worst-case-scenarios :-)

In real-life conditions following things matter a lot (outside of NCAP, airbags, etc.)

1. Braking and handling depending on your driving speed, esp brakes
2. See and be seen (orvms, blind spots) and if you drive in the nights - xenon lights are a huge plus
3. Power to overtake quickly and be out of danger zone
4. Tires and their condition - runflats have other cons but they are super safe
5. Cars that warn u about tire-pressure-loss, failed-bulbs, worn-out brakes, etc.
6. i sorely miss front-passenger airbag OFF button because my son simply doesn't travel unless i put the car seat in the front passenger seat - this alone is making me restless.
7. everyone wearing seat belts :-) this sounds so obvious but trust me most of my effort is spent in making my family comply and persuade super pampered kids who hate child seats. ISOFIX child seats are better (not tried as I got non-ISOFIX seats as a gift!!!!)
8. Horn that is honoured by buses and trucks

I could be wrong but based on my earlier research and current ownership Skoda offers the cheapest options with most of these ticked.

[vb-saan]

I am not very sure about the Euro NCAP rating for the Cruze. Is it for the variants sold in India, or in the global markets?

You have quite a few options around 20L... like the Skoda Yeti Elegance, Superb etc. And if you're looking to the 3-series category there are more options like the BMW X1, upcoming Volvo S60 etc.
Another option will be the upcoming VW Jetta.

[freewheelburnin]

In Indian conditions the worst accidents happen when a car goes under a truck,hits obstacle on road etc and flips over,roof collapses,side impact etc.A ladder frame body on chassis SUV might be the safest car for you.But may not be as safe for other road users.NCAP ratings are almost useless in India.For safety in indian conditions,bigger SUVs with structural stability,strong a pillar and roof etc and a good crumble zone at the front with air bags would be the best choice.

[PlatzdaTurbo]

Agree with PrateekM, under 20 the Superb is your best bet by far. Apart from the array of safety features ,what you get is european sturdy build quality. Also the Jetta perhaps. Comes with 8 airbags and ESP & the other bits.
So yes, i would say its the Jetta or the Superb.

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by karanraheja

The New Civic Concept is being unveiled later today in US, so how about another Civic.

No Japs, please. I do not rate them high when it comes to safety. True, they are highly reliable, and my Civic has not given me any headaches so far. But for a safe car, I'll look elsewhere.

On a serious note i would advice you to wait for the Next Gen Jetta and it should be launched in India sometime this year , else the Laura TSI.

Laura TSI lacks ACC.

Originally Posted by prateekm

The Skoda Superb 1.8 MT has the best safety + luxury features though you might have to stretch your budget by a couple of lacs. 8 airbags, ABS, EBD, Traction Control, ASR, EDL, ESP, HHC, TPM and what not Costs about ~23l on road. Skoda maintenance may be bit of a concern though.

Can't stretch that far. 15L is my ideal budget. 20 itself is a stretch. Maybe a used Superb would be a good option.

Originally Posted by GloryManUnited

The Skoda Yeti has a 5* NCAP rating. It is one of the safest cars in the segment you are looking at. You might want to consider that as well.

That is a good one. I prefer sedans over SUVs, and prefer a low slung stance. But you have a point there, so the Yeti gets added to the list.

Originally Posted by androdev

@civic-sense,
NCAP rating should not be the only criteria. i20 is NCAP-5 but it may not compare to say a BMW.

True, but here I am comparing only similar cars. Cars that are around the 1.5 ton, and belong to the same class.

I am also very paranoid about safety - I keep checking the "accidents in india" thread very regularly to understand worst-case-scenarios :-)

In real-life conditions following things matter a lot (outside of NCAP, airbags, etc.)

1. Braking and handling depending on your driving speed, esp brakes
2. See and be seen (orvms, blind spots) and if you drive in the nights - xenon lights are a huge plus
3. Power to overtake quickly and be out of danger zone
4. Tires and their condition - runflats have other cons but they are super safe
5. Cars that warn u about tire-pressure-loss, failed-bulbs, worn-out brakes, etc.

Braking and handling are high in my list. Wouldn't buy a underpowered vehicle too. That's why I prefer petrols, with which I need not always downshift when I need power.

I could be wrong but based on my earlier research and current ownership Skoda offers the cheapest options with most of these ticked.

Yes, Skodas "feel" very safe.

Originally Posted by vb-san

I am not very sure about the Euro NCAP rating for the Cruze. Is it for the variants sold in India, or in the global markets?

NCAP ratings are for the cars sold there. But that was my doubt too. Do they under-engineer their cars, when they bring it to India?

You have quite a few options around 20L... like the Skoda Yeti Elegance, Superb etc. And if you're looking to the 3-series category there are more options like the BMW X1, upcoming Volvo S60 etc.
Another option will be the upcoming VW Jetta.

A used 3 is very high in my list. X1s would take another 2-3 years to be in the used car market, can't afford a new one. A Volvo is my ultimate dream. A used S80 would be a dream come true for me.

Originally Posted by freewheelburnin

In Indian conditions the worst accidents happen when a car goes under a truck,hits obstacle on road etc and flips over,roof collapses,side impact etc.A ladder frame body on chassis SUV might be the safest car for you.But may not be as safe for other road users.NCAP ratings are almost useless in India.For safety in indian conditions,bigger SUVs with structural stability,strong a pillar and roof etc and a good crumble zone at the front with air bags would be the best choice.

Agree to the above to a very great extend. In case of a collision with a "Indian" truck, all safety features of sedans are of no use. Hmm, Yeti in the forefront now.

Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo

Agree with PrateekM, under 20 the Superb is your best bet by far. Apart from the array of safety features ,what you get is european sturdy build quality. Also the Jetta perhaps. Comes with 8 airbags and ESP & the other bits.
So yes, i would say its the Jetta or the Superb.

Can't find Jetta in the NCAP list. What is it based on? The Golf, right?

[PlatzdaTurbo]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Can't find Jetta in the NCAP list. What is it based on? The Golf, right?

Yup. i dont really know what NCAP rating the Jetta has but i am pretty sure about the long list of safety features it possesses.
You can check out the Jetta brochure on the web

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

NCAP ratings are for the cars sold there. But that was my doubt too. Do they under-engineer their cars, when they bring it to India?

I will definitely say Yes. Manufacturers go by the market demand, and unfortunately in our market safety is still not a parameter in the VFM options. And another point to note here is that some manufacturers advertisements (or information provided on the website) are based on their top end models. For eg; Skoda Laura website talks about all sort of safety features like 6 airbags and so on, and then only when you go to the spec sheet, you'll know that its all for the L&K Trim.

But a good point to note here is that the premium German brands normally offer the standard safety features across all trims (e.g.; BMW X1).

Originally Posted by civic-sense

A used 3 is very high in my list. X1s would take another 2-3 years to be in the used car market, can't afford a new one. A Volvo is my ultimate dream. A used S80 would be a dream come true for me.

Used 3 will be a good buy. And maybe you can look at the some of the threads by fellow members on this - where in they got authorised pre-owned BMWs.
And looking at how a Volvo is rated in India, a newer used S80 may come cheaper than a used 3

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Agree to the above to a very great extend. In case of a collision with a "Indian" truck, all safety features of sedans are of no use. Hmm, Yeti in the forefront now.

Yes, Yeti does make sense. But I doubt about the other SUVs in the said price range. Personally I will feel more safe with a Yeti, compared to a bigger Fortuner.

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Can't find Jetta in the NCAP list. What is it based on? The Golf, right?

Current Jetta in India is based on prev. gen Golf (MK-V), but I remember reading that the upcoming 2011 Jetta is on a newer platform. Jetta surely will be a safe buy.

[.anshuman]

Cruze surely has 5 Star NCAP rating but here in India it comes with just 2 Airbags and No ESP. Laura L&K comes with 6 Airbags and ESP but it has 4 Star NCAP rating. If you can stretch the budget go in for the Superb which even in the base version comes with all the safety essentials or the Yeti in the Elegance trim with 6 Airbags + ESP is a good option.

If you want to go the Jap way, The Accord is a good option. A Friend crashed and overturned his Accord pretty badly, he came out scratchless. Since this version of Accord is not sold in Europe it is not certified for NCAP but some US websites may help.

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo

Yup. i dont really know what NCAP rating the Jetta has but i am pretty sure about the long list of safety features it possesses.
You can check out the Jetta brochure on the web

Any idea whether Jetta is a CBU or a CKD or locally manufactured?

Originally Posted by vb-san

I will definitely say Yes. Manufacturers go by the market demand, and unfortunately in our market safety is still not a parameter in the VFM options. And another point to note here is that some manufacturers advertisements (or information provided on the website) are based on their top end models. For eg; Skoda Laura website talks about all sort of safety features like 6 airbags and so on, and then only when you go to the spec sheet, you'll know that its all for the L&K Trim.

BTW, there are some mouthwatering deals on used Laura L&Ks. But the 1.9 PD was not a refined engine.

Used 3 will be a good buy. And maybe you can look at the some of the threads by fellow members on this - where in they got authorised pre-owned BMWs.

How are the maintenance costs of BMWs? As bad as the Mercs? And reliability? Any idea?

And looking at how a Volvo is rated in India, a newer used S80 may come cheaper than a used 3

Problem is, not many were sold. Bangalore don't even have a dealer, I guess.

Yes, Yeti does make sense. But I doubt about the other SUVs in the said price range. Personally I will feel more safe with a Yeti, compared to a bigger Fortuner.

A big NO for the Fortuner. I don't want to sit so high up. Coming to the Yeti, is it a good handler? Comparable to Sedans?

Current Jetta in India is based on prev. gen Golf (MK-V), but I remember reading that the upcoming 2011 Jetta is on a newer platform. Jetta surely will be a safe buy.

Maybe a worthy wait. And I just hope they don't put a EPS in it.

Originally Posted by .anshuman

Cruze surely has 5 Star NCAP rating but here in India it comes with just 2 Airbags and No ESP. Laura L&K comes with 6 Airbags and ESP but it has 4 Star NCAP rating.

That's the dilemma, whether to trust the numbers, or the instincts.

If you can stretch the budget go in for the Superb which even in the base version comes with all the safety essentials or the Yeti in the Elegance trim with 6 Airbags + ESP is a good option.

Quite surprised that we have ended up talking mostly about Skodas, while only a few months ago, I had vowed not to buy a Skoda ever.

If you want to go the Jap way, The Accord is a good option. A Friend crashed and overturned his Accord pretty badly, he came out scratchless. Since this version of Accord is not sold in Europe it is not certified for NCAP but some US websites may help.

A used Accord is the right logical upgrade to the Civic, but somehow can't trust a Japanese car to be safe.

[.anshuman]

^^ AFAIK all the current gen Honda's and Toyota's are as safe as the Europeans.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

^^ AFAIK all the current gen Honda's and Toyota's are as safe as the Europeans.

Completely agree... Cars like Accord score very high on safety.

And if you need to do a Euro NCAP comparison, here is the url - RESULTS | Euro NCAP - For safer cars crash test safety rating