[Sugeeta]

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

There is a term often coined in this context, "asset rich, cash poor". Refers to a typical millionaire from chandni chowk who still drives a moped, his earnings from the asset (land/shop) may not even justify holding the asset. But he would not be willing to let go of the asset in return of good money.

While one extreme of human consumption is overspending and borrowing to buy cars and other things, the other extreme is hoarding assets without knowing what to do with them.

Something to think about.

Indeed, something to think about. It is about striking the balance keeping ones income and liabilities in mind. Also, what comes to play a major part is ones personal beliefs.

I doubt any average IT Joe would lead the kind of life a Chandni Chowk shopkeeper would. I also doubt any member of this Forum would be content driving around even in Chandni Chowk on a run-down moped.

Speaking only for myself, if excess funds are royally available, I would give in to the temptation to splurge on a luxury car, provided another good parking slot is available.

[SoCalCarFan]

Hi all, I thought I'd add the "IT guy in US" perspective, yes I have been fortunate to have the 3 series and an X5 but I will tell you that the other posts claiming that $1100 lease per month is cheap is incorrect. No one (who is not rich) has a $1000+ lease payment. Heck most of the non rich do not have $1000+ car finance payments. That is why you see most Sr. IT guys drive in sub $40K vehicles (60 month loans). New IT guys here from India drive sub $20K. It was almost popular saying that when one comes here, they buy a used corolla, then move on to a new corolla, then camry, then siena (minivan) and if quite successful to a Rx-330 or an X3. I actually thought the Indian diaspora needs to ask Toyota/Honda to sponsor the temple festivities LOL (as the parking lot is full of cars mentioned above). Very few Indian techies in $50K+ cars.
So the comparison is an apt one. How many IT joes in US drive a $100K car --> NONE. Maybe a handful but really close to none.

[amitk26]

To reiterate what many others said on this thread , Yes a lot of IT Joe specially in tier-1 product MNC can buy a BMW but they will not buy because there are other priorities in life. Buying an expensive car depends on your social need as well.
In certain professions such as independent consulting,brokerage, Marketing etc. having a BMW or Merc can increase your credibility and bring you more clients and generate revenue. Not having an expensive car means you are not making enough. But IT folks have no such social needs.

Just think if one fine day you wear a 3 peace black suit to your office in Bangalore how out of the place you would look , A BMW is not any different.

Incidentally our boss has a company BMW with chauffeur which serves his wife and he mostly drives his old Ikon to work :-)

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

There is a term often coined in this context, "asset rich, cash poor". Refers to a typical millionaire from chandni chowk who still drives a moped, his earnings from the asset (land/shop) may not even justify holding the asset. But he would not be willing to let go of the asset in return of good money.

While one extreme of human consumption is overspending and borrowing to buy cars and other things, the other extreme is hoarding assets without knowing what to do with them.

Something to think about.

Well a Chandni Chowk shopkeeper is another extreme his accrual income is not so high as the asset value he inherited and probably he is not equipped to take a decision to move out to a new area, because he is not sure if he can run a business from new area.

As we all know India has no system of social security and if an Industry closes down or for old age you need to save so IT folks are right in saving and building nest for future.

[androdev]

Since most IT people are able to afford a house/flat, they can technically buy a fancy car if they are messed up in their priorities ;-) Many people won't enjoy driving a BMW in a city like Bangalore that has no roads and traffic reminds you of a bunch of cockroaches running to save their lives. So even if you are an enthusiast and willing to buy a fancy car instead of a house, the prospect of keeping the car safe from traffic hazards and enjoying a good drive are pretty bleak.

[sammycoolster]

Originally Posted by SoCalCarFan

Hi all, I thought I'd add the "IT guy in US" perspective, yes I have been fortunate to have the 3 series and an X5 but I will tell you that the other posts claiming that $1100 lease per month is cheap is incorrect. No one (who is not rich) has a $1000+ lease payment. Heck most of the non rich do not have $1000+ car finance payments. That is why you see most Sr. IT guys drive in sub $40K vehicles (60 month loans). New IT guys here from India drive sub $20K. It was almost popular saying that when one comes here, they buy a used corolla, then move on to a new corolla, then camry, then siena (minivan) and if quite successful to a Rx-330 or an X3. I actually thought the Indian diaspora needs to ask Toyota/Honda to sponsor the temple festivities LOL (as the parking lot is full of cars mentioned above). Very few Indian techies in $50K+ cars.
So the comparison is an apt one. How many IT joes in US drive a $100K car --> NONE. Maybe a handful but really close to none.

Not meaning any offence at the least,I am not sure what your data is based upon or which company you work for , But I can pull out folks in my company (I am not talking about Indian IT company onsite folks) who are technical only but are at the grade of Director or Sr.Director and above (Thats the way Product based IT companies work), with starting salaries at $170k and I have seen BMW 7 series with them, if not Aston DB9s and Carreras in our parking lot in GA. Hope I don't have to post pics for want of privacy sake.

[SoCalCarFan]

Originally Posted by sammycoolster

Not meaning any offence at the least,I am not sure what your data is based upon or which company you work for , But I can pull out folks in my company (I am not talking about Indian IT company onsite folks) who are technical only but are at the grade of Director or Sr.Director and above (Thats the way Product based IT companies work), with starting salaries at $170k and I have seen BMW 7 series with them, if not Aston DB9s and Carreras in our parking lot in GA. Hope I don't have to post pics for want of privacy sake.

Sammy, no offence taken. I did not mean your friends don't have them. In fact I am a Sr. Director in an American firm too. I am just saying that it is not "normal". A Director and above cannot be considered an average IT joe in the US, correct? In my humble opinion an average IT joe in the US (american guy) drives a Ford truck or an mid-size family car ($30K). That's just my opinion.

[TurboGuru]

IT industry + Long Term onsite (1 + year) assignmnet deputed at client location where you get paid in terms of $ --> Definetly YES.....
Mine story 5+ year in Mechanical Industry and still strugglinf for an upgrade from M800 ..

[Speed Pujari]

Well I disagree to the long term onsite requirement to own a beemer. In fact salaries in India is competing with the one's in the US. Back in US the only way to save is to live in austerity (which 'long term onsite' IT services guy normally do)

Having an experience of say 10+ years in IT one can easily claim a salary of upside 20L to 25L in India. A 15 years exp fellow (Java Architect) I know is drawing 35L.
Having your spouse working with a salary of say 12L, then owning a Beemer is doable.

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by Speed Pujari

Well I disagree to the long term onsite requirement to own a beemer. In fact salaries in India is competing with the one's in the US. Back in US the only way to save is to live in austerity (which 'long term onsite' IT services guy normally do)

Having an experience of say 10+ years in IT one can easily claim a salary of upside 20L to 25L in India. A 15 years exp fellow (Java Architect) I know is drawing 35L.
Having your spouse working with a salary of say 12L, then owning a Beemer is doable.

Doubt a Rs 35-40 lakh gross salary for a working couple with 10+ years is enough to sensibly afford a Beemer. May be a Civic, in my view.

[csr]

Affordability for a BMW has definitely increased over past 10 years and it would futher continue to improve moving forward. Who knows, there could be a new BMW available at about 20L OTR bangalore 5 yrs from now!

Inflation seem to have influenced vegetable prices by 3-5X in last 10 years, but electronics and automobiles have not increased more than 1.5X during this period.

So, for 2011 the answers could be:
Can a regular IT Joe ever buy a BMW? - YES
Will a regular IT Joe ever buy a BMW? - NO
Will a regular IT Joe with 40L+ salary buy a BMW - NO
Will a car enthusiast with 40L+ salary buy a BMW/similar - YES

(I'm just taking 40L salary as a ballpark number)

CSR

[vinit.merchant]

Can a Regular IT Joe buy a BMW - NO NO, NEVER.

Lets assume all HEAVEN breaks loose on him and one day suddenly he finds himself with a bank Balance of INR 40 L. Now, will he buy a BMW - Still NO NO, NEVER.
He will buy real estate / put it in FD & buy 5-10 L segment Car

[junkishya]

Originally Posted by Speed Pujari

Having an experience of say 10+ years in IT one can easily claim a salary of upside 20L to 25L in India. A 15 years exp fellow (Java Architect) I know is drawing 35L.
Having your spouse working with a salary of say 12L, then owning a Beemer is doable.

That's exactly what I too am saying .. with 12-15 years in this industry, a combined (couple) salary of 35L-40L is a reality. In fact 2 of my former bosses (with 17-18 yrs of IT experience) have salaries in the range of 42L - 55L. Their organization also gives car leasing option. Surely for such salaries, car lease is a good means of saving lot of tax. But both of them still drive a Innova-V. They also maintain a 2nd car (NHC) for family. Having been in the industry for so long they know the challenges it can throw. People who have seen the Ups (Y2K, .COM boom, ERP boom, etc) and the Downs (2001, 2003, 2008, 2012 ??) will not spend their savings on a swanky car, rather they would invest that money and retire may be 2-3 years early !!!

I'm sure atleast 50% of the IT Joes and at least 80% of the Grey haired IT guys will surely agree with this view.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by csr

(I'm just taking 40L salary as a ballpark number)

I am either in the wrong job or I am not a regular IT Joe. But a way way Below the Poverty Line Regular IT Joe.

Whoever agree with the above please comment. Orelse I am going to lose my sleep tonight.

[Technocrat]

Wow these recent posts make IT look so flashy again. A 10+ years guy in IT drawing 20L plus is still not common, most of the high paying companies are product companies.

In Services based IT where the majority Joe's fall into, the pay these days is comparable to other sectors. Only those folks are drawing high salary who are either in this industry from 15+ years & have ahd a good start or those who have a niche skill set.

Again I am not saying that there arent folks who are drawing high sums, all I am saying is that they are not yet norm i.e. do not fall into Average IT Joe category.

[RajaTaurus]

Owning a BMW or Merc requires some specific things in Indian cities as compared to other countries.
1. You will have to always find a safe, real safe place to park the car before you can leave for a)pay your phone bills, b) go to Coffee Day c) stroll on the beach d) go to a cinema etc.
2. You will have to have a covered compounded car parking at home. You just can't leave it on the road side or even within the compound near the wall!
3. Probably you will need a driver to take care of your car when you go anywhere. Driving pleasure robbed!
4. Of course, have a heavy wallet, in spite all above, to take care of those scratches with keys, broken ORVMs, dented rears etc.
Well, IT guy can do all the above, when he grows to the level of CEO or GM in a company!
It is not only his affordability, there is lot more to it - IMO.
Finally, as many pointed out, IT Joe = Any salaried person.