[Jeroen]

This morning in the times of India:

Air India Dreamliner strays off course, wind blamed

Looks like they nearly landed on Essendon, rather than Melbourne main airport. According to the article it was only noticed when the plane was half a kilometer from the touch down point. That is pretty close and it was noticed by ATC not the pilots. The two airports are 7 kilometers apart.

Air india officials claim it was a minor mix up and not serious. I disagree. So they did not actually land at the wrong airport, but they got pretty close. That is serious incident.

Strong winds were blamed for the plane drifting of course. We'll have to see what the official report says, but I've never seen an aviation investigation, but I'd say this is going to be a very straight forward case of pilot error and most likely ATC must have missed something too.

Jeroen

[Jeroen]

I just came across this article:

http://flightsafety.org/ap/ap_mar88.pdf

Its from 1988, but landing on the wrong airports does continue to happen so the root causes and recommendations in this article are probably still very relevant.

Jeroen

[searchingheaven]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I just came across this article:

http://flightsafety.org/ap/ap_mar88.pdf

Its from 1988, but landing on the wrong airports does continue to happen so the root causes and recommendations in this article are probably still very relevant.

Jeroen

That article is an eyeopener and yes, the causes are still relevant even now. There are a few factors though like in-flight planning etc which won't hold now. Also, many causes are repeated in the document in many places.

As for the Branson fiasco, reports like these are coming in. Deborah Hersman, herself visited Graham Clark 2 days ago. The pilots and the 3rd person in the cockpit are grounded(Paid leave).

[HalfOctave]

Pakistan already has two of its motorway which can be used as emergency runways. Leave Cessna type of aircraft, these motorway have had fighters landed on to them. The amount of impact fighter makes with its high speed landing is tremendous.
Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorwa...rgency_runways

Its time now that we in India, also start thinking on such lines and have something of similar sort.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by HalfOctave

Pakistan already has two of its motorway which can be used as emergency runways. .

It's a concept that has been in place for nearly as long as there has been (military) aviation. Various countries use motorways for (emergency) runway, notably the Swiss and the Swedes.

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_strip

Jeroen

[shady_lawyer]

No I'm not posting a teaser title, just so you'd read the thread. Honest to god! Believe me!

So here goes, I'm driving down to Murthal a couple of months ago, and suddenly the people in the back seat go, "Duuuuude, did you see that?, that was a real life plane, sitting right there next to the highway". Given the questionable lifestyle we lead, I was inclined to let it pass, except I saw this [pardon me for taking only two pictures, but I was pulled up right on the highway]




Location just after the Jurasik Park flyover on the way to Murthal.

[predatorwheelz]

Originally Posted by shady_lawyer

No I'm not posting a teaser title, just so you'd read the thread. Honest to god! Believe me!

So here goes, I'm driving down to Murthal a couple of months ago, and suddenly the people in the back seat go, "Duuuuude, did you see that?, that was a real life plane, sitting right there next to the highway". Given the questionable lifestyle we lead, I was inclined to let it pass, except I saw this [pardon me for taking only two pictures, but I was pulled up right on the highway]

This plane has been there for more than 2 years now. Apparently bought as a demo for some in-flight training school. We give it a keen look everytime we pass it by on our way to the hills.

Also, why is it on this thread?

[shady_lawyer]

Originally Posted by predatorwheelz

This plane has been there for more than 2 years now. Apparently bought as a demo for some in-flight training school. We give it a keen look everytime we pass it by on our way to the hills.

Also, why is it on this thread?

Aah! so that's the mystery. The wait staff at Murthal told us that some rich farmer bought in and then dint know what to do with it and just left it by the road side .

As for why this post ended up here, no clue sir, perhaps i opened the thread in a wrong place. Still figuring my way around here.
@mods-would you please move this where its more appropriate. Apologies!

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by predatorwheelz

This plane has been there for more than 2 years now. Apparently bought as a demo for some in-flight training school. We give it a keen look everytime we pass it by on our way to the hills.

Also, why is it on this thread?

Maybe he thought that the plane had actually landed on the runway hence posted it on this thread

[predatorwheelz]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Maybe he thought that the plane had actually landed on the runway hence posted it on this thread

You misunderstand. The post was originally made on this thread:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commer...go-movers.html

Then moved here. Hence the query

[Samurai]

Didn't know where else to ask this question. I saw this video of a Helicopter doing backflips. To my understanding, choppers fly by creating lift from the rotating blades putting downward pressure. So I am not able to understand how they can do backflips like this. How does that work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6awRyW3RPw

[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Didn't know where else to ask this question. I saw this video of a Helicopter doing backflips. To my understanding, choppers fly by creating lift from the rotating blades putting downward pressure. So I am not able to understand how they can do backflips like this. How does that work?

https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=Q6awRyW3RPw

Quite some time ago, the same topic came up for discussion in a flight sim forum that I am a member of. A former USN helicopter pilot answered to a question on how modern combat helicopters were able to do rolls and loops. It was so nicely explained that I had saved his reply on my external HDD.

I am a former Naval Aviator and SH-60B Seahawk pilot. I'm going to have to explain a lot about how helicopters work to answer your question. Sorry for the long response.

When speaking of rolls, there are aileron rolls and barrel rolls. In an aileron roll, the aircraft rolls about its own axis. Think of a rod going through the nose of the aircraft and out the tail. The aircraft rolls long the rod. In a barrel roll, the aircraft rolls about point in space above/away from the aircraft. Think of it as the aircraft's landing gear are connected to the inside of the barrel and the barrel is spinning. The aircraft rolls about a point in the center of the barrel.

Lift and propulsion of a helicopter are provided by the main rotor. The pitch of the blades is changed using two controls, the collective and the cyclic. Think of the main rotors as a disk on top of the helicopter.

The collective is typically a left-hand lever moving up and down. The collective change the pitch of all blades or collectively changes the pitch of the rotor disk. With up collective, the pitch increases on all blades, producing lift, and the helicopter goes up. With down collective, the pitch decreases on all blades, decreasing lift, and the helicopter goes down.

The cyclic is typically a right-hand joy stick. The cyclic changes the pitch of the blades cyclically. If you move the cyclic to the right, the pitch increases on the left side and decreases on the right side, providing a rolling motion to the right side. Wherever the pilot points the cyclic, the rotor disk will tilt in that direction. The aircraft will move in the direction the rotor disk is tilted.
In a hover, the cyclic is more less in a neutral position. The collective is increased to provide lift. To move forward, the cyclic is moved forward, tilting the rotor disk forward. Pitch increases to the rear and decreases on the front. This causes the nose to pitch down and the aircraft to move forward and lose some lift, so now the pilot increases collective to counteract the loss of lift.

To perform an aileron roll in a helicopter, the pilot will move the cyclic to the left or the right depending on the direction he wants to roll. The pilot will also have to make changes to the collective to maintain the same altitude. I have never seen a helicopter perform a barrel roll. I'm not sure if a helicopter can maintain enough forward momentum and lift to do an actual barrel roll.

I almost forgot the tail rotor. As the main rotor blades spin, they impart torque on the helicopter causing the helicopter itself to spin in the opposite direction. The tail rotor counteracts the torque. The tail rotor blades are controlled by foot pedals that increase or decrease the pitch causing the helicopter to yaw.

https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=I9ScVZ437xA

Not all helicopters can perform these maneuvers. The SH-60B has a fully articulated rotor head. This means there are 2 sets of hinges that allow the blades to flap and lead/lag along with a socket that allows the blade to rotate relative to the rotor when changing pitch. This arrangement is not suitable for performing rolls and would result in damage to the rotor system. I have taken part in exercises with British Lynx helicopters that have fixed rotor heads where the blades are hard connected to the rotor head. The blades are actually warped when changing pitch. I've seen the Lynx do aileron rolls and loops.

In the two helicopters I flew (SH-60B & TH-57), negative Gs were not something you would normally do. The SH-60B was limited to bank angles of 45 degrees. The TH-57 was limited to 90 degrees, but at 90 you're not producing any lift. I never came close to doing any kind of roll.
When you introduce negative Gs on a helicopter you are removing the load from the rotor head. This can lead to problems with a fully articulated rotor. The blades can start moving in directions you don't want them to. I think the SH-60B could do a roll, but it would probably be damaged. You second video was of a MH-53. It is much larger, but I think it has a similar rotor head. I doubt if they flew that aircraft much after those aerobatics.
TH-57 was capable of having mast bumping. The rotor head pivots on top of the mast. If you make rapid back and forth movements on the cyclic, it was possible for the rotor head to pivot down and strike the mast a possible break the rotor head free. If that happens, you're no longer flying.
In flight school, I started flying the T-34C TurboMentor airplane. This is a fully aerobatic aircraft. We did loops, aileron rolls and barrel rolls. We were limited to +4.5 Gs and -2.3 Gs. Negative Gs are uncomfortable. It's that stomach flipping sensation you get when hill hopping a car. A student in my class put +11 Gs during a solo flight. The wings had ripples in them. The Navy sent some test pilots down from Pax River to look over the aircraft. They refused to fly it. The student, shortly there after, failed out due to a flight simulator event.
As for games, I haven't played any of the Comanche series. I have played LongBow II and Flight Sim X with the Aerosoft SH-60B. There's not enough visual cues or other sensory input to make them seem very realistic. I'll try a roll sometime and see how it is handled.

[Samurai]

Thanks, not that I fully understand, but it does give an idea.